The Olympics Thread

[Tank]

1 minute ago, mul21 said:

You've been told the same thing by multiple people now.  Maybe you're the problem here.

Yes, and all of them are men. lol

[javy knows my name]

It is a diminutive term for women and that is how you're using it. Context does not matter  

[cwood218]

2 hours ago, Tank said:

Yes, and all of them are men. lol

Oh great, now we are going to get two pages of whining about how he is transphobic because he just assumed their genders.

Edited August 8, 2024 by cwood218

[JudasIscariotTheBird]

Black Ukrainian member of Parliment wins bronze in Greco wrestling.  Pretty cool.  

[Hairyducked Idiot]

59 minutes ago, cwood218 said:

Oh great, now we are going to get two pages of whining about how he is transphobic because he just assumed their genders.

If I may derail the derail,  I hate that meme so much.  I spend a lot of time with trans people (if you wanna get super technical, I am one, nonbinary agender, but I don't like to make a big deal out of it)..

None of them have ever once been offended by someone assuming their gender or pronouns. Gender presentation is a social signal and they have spent a lot of time and effort changing that presentation to what they want.  

It's more offensive to *not* assume their gender when they're very visibly presenting one, but 98% of problems come from someone willfully misgendering them after being corrected.

[Tank]

14 minutes ago, JudasIscariotTheBird said:

Black Ukrainian member of Parliment wins bronze in Greco wrestling.  Pretty cool.  

This reads like the title of an Onion article.

[Tank]

3 hours ago, javy knows my name said:

It is a diminutive term for women and that is how you're using it. Context does not matter  

I provided a definition from Oxford dictionary and examples of its commonly accepted and appropriate use. The best counter argument presented was "you don't get to determine if it's offensive because you aren't a woman, but I do even though I'm also not a woman."

We've derailed the Olympics thread enough with this silly debate. Big day at the track for the Americans! 

[Sammy Sofa]

9 minutes ago, Tank said:

I provided a definition from Oxford dictionary

A real C- flex if there ever was one.

[Tank]

3 minutes ago, Sammy Sofa said:

A real C- flex if there ever was one.

Dictionary definitions are meaningless when compared to personal feelings, got it. lol

[Sammy Sofa]

Argumentum ad dictionarium!

[Sammy Sofa]

But here, if it makes you feel better...also from the Oxford Dictionary:

Quote

The Oxford English Dictionary is not an arbiter of proper usage, despite its widespread reputation to the contrary. The Dictionary is intended to be descriptive, not prescriptive. In other words, its content should be viewed as an objective reflection of English language usage, not a subjective collection of usage ‘dos’ and ‘don'ts’.

Edited August 8, 2024 by Sammy Sofa

[Tryptamine]

The self proclaimed best dream team is losing to Serbia with 5 minutes to go

[mul21]

4 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

The self proclaimed best dream team is losing to Serbia with 5 minutes to go

You were saying?

They looked real bad for a long stretch there though.

[Tryptamine]

Curry completely carried them. 9/14 from 3.

[Tank]

15 minutes ago, Sammy Sofa said:

But here, if it makes you feel better...also from the Oxford Dictionary:

I cited Oxford for the description of the context that I used it in and then provided widely accepted examples of its use in daily speech. The counter argument made was "you're not a woman" from someone who also isn't a woman. Pick a different hill to die on and let's stop jamming up the Olympics thread.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

A useful skill is learning what arguments are worth having on the internet, even if you think the other side is wrong and/or overreacting.

Sincerely,

Guy whose NSBB claim to fame is hating tipping

[soccer10k]

1 hour ago, Tryptamine said:

The self proclaimed best dream team is losing to Serbia with 5 minutes to go

So close to hitting my bet on the Field to win gold.

[bukie]

1 hour ago, Transmogrified Tiger said:

A useful skill is learning what arguments are worth having on the internet, even if you think the other side is wrong and/or overreacting.

Sincerely,

Guy whose NSBB claim to fame is hating tipping

Sure, now you start handing out tips.

[Sammy Sofa]

1 hour ago, Tank said:

I cited Oxford for the description of the context that I used it in and then provided widely accepted examples of its use in daily speech. The counter argument made was "you're not a woman" from someone who also isn't a woman. Pick a different hill to die on and let's stop jamming up the Olympics thread.

[WrigleyField 22]

Jumping into the girls/women debate.  

Yes there are informal uses of girls.  When my wife has dinner with her childhood friend group, it's usually referred to as a girls night. It's very informal and perhaps "ladies' night" would be a little less infantalizing and "friends night" would be not infantalizing and also not gendered.  But most people probably will go along with that social norm of girls night. It is extremely informal for one, bit also used in a context of a close knit social group collectively by them. 

The OP question was awkward though in the way it was used, down the fact that it went from "women's volleyball" to "our girls" language.  If the sport can be termed in the frame of women's x it definitely ends up coming off extremely misogynistic and infantalizing to switch to "our girls" in the possesive when then talking about the athletes in said womans sport. They're all accomplished adult women athletes. It's not really a question of formality or anything, it was just written in a off-putting way IMO.

 

Personally I do find the girl/guy/boy language awkward at best. If someone says "a girl I work with" a lot of people find that language acceptable (though I defer to woman in these examples). Most though would probably find it extremely awkward to say "a boy I work with" because we have a informal gendered term "guy" for adult men that doesn't play double duty of referring to children too. I guess lady could/should fill that role, but people use that with a lot less frequency for whatever reason. Of course you can always just go with non gendered "my co-worker" in this example, but the most common language of girl/guy is clearly a unique standard.

Anyways the polling on these gendered terms doesn't show huge difference in mens/women's attitudes with women finding both girls/boys as slightly less accepting. So anyone here is entitled to their opinion without needing to fill a gender role to legitimize their opinion, but there's pretty clearly a different standard used for these gendered terms whether it used plural collective or to refer to individuals.

[Sammy Sofa]

We're all just dancing around what is clearly most acceptable and not at all creepy term:

[Tank]

3 minutes ago, WrigleyField 22 said:

Jumping into the girls/women debate.  

Yes there are informal uses of girls.  When my wife has dinner with her childhood friend group, it's usually referred to as a girls night. It's very informal and perhaps "ladies' night" would be a little less infantalizing and "friends night" would be not infantalizing and also not gendered.  But most people probably will go along with that social norm of girls night. It is extremely informal for one, bit also used in a context of a close knit social group collectively by them. 

The OP question was awkward though in the way it was used, down the fact that it went from "women's volleyball" to "our girls" language.  If the sport can be termed in the frame of women's x it definitely ends up coming off extremely misogynistic and infantalizing to switch to "our girls" in the possesive when then talking about the athletes in said womans sport. They're all accomplished adult women athletes. It's not really a question of formality or anything, it was just written in a off-putting way IMO.

 

Personally I do find the girl/guy/boy language awkward at best. If someone says "a girl I work with" a lot of people find that language acceptable (though I defer to woman in these examples). Most though would probably find it extremely awkward to say "a boy I work with" because we have a informal gendered term "guy" for adult men that doesn't play double duty of referring to children too. I guess lady could/should fill that role, but people use that with a lot less frequency for whatever reason. Of course you can always just go with non gendered "my co-worker" in this example, but the most common language of girl/guy is clearly a unique standard.

Anyways the polling on these gendered terms doesn't show huge difference in mens/women's attitudes with women finding both girls/boys as slightly less accepting. So anyone here is entitled to their opinion without needing to fill a gender role to legitimize their opinion, but there's pretty clearly a different standard used for these gendered terms whether it used plural collective or to refer to individuals.

Good post. Regarding the "awkwardness" of my original post, consider it in the same way that fans might say "let's go boys" when our Cubs take the field and not "let's go men". The formal version sounds far more awkward. 

[WrigleyField 22]

13 minutes ago, Tank said:

Good post. Regarding the "awkwardness" of my original post, consider it in the same way that fans might say "let's go boys" when our Cubs take the field and not "let's go men". The formal version sounds far more awkward. 

People very rarely use boys even in those circumsrances. And it's also almost never used in a infantalizing type of way.  

Putting down women athletes with girls terminology is definitely a common thing. People can either try and avoid that association by avoiding it or be willfully or unintentionally ignorant to it.  But it's really not comparable even if it seems like it would be in a text book comparison.

 

Language evolves too and it shouldn't bother people to change with it, even when it feels illogical or inconsistent.

[Sammy Sofa]

13 minutes ago, WrigleyField 22 said:

People very rarely use boys even in those circumsrances. And it's also almost never used in a infantalizing type of way. 

I feel like some boring old freak like George Will probably dusts that off from time to time.

[WrigleyField 22]

8 minutes ago, Sammy Sofa said:

I feel like some boring old freak like George Will probably dusts that off from time to time.

In a semi-ironic "the boys got it done"  way I may occasionally hear it, but it's certainly not like mainstream normal convo.