Marlins (Puk) vs Cubs (Taillon): 4/19/24, 1:20pm, Marquee

[Jason Ross]

12 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

I get it. But I would still rather see Canario and let Tauchman be the lefty bat off the bench. They have none when he plays. Too bad PCA has sucked. This would have been a perfect time for him instead of Canario. 

They don't have any when they play, sure, but wouldn't you rather get 2-3 PAs of a LHH in a game than sit him in the bench in the event you *maybe* need one? 

And as @Transmogrified Tigerpointed out, other than a C, who do you really want to PH for? 

I don't like Tauchmann that much, bur against a RHP, start Mike.

[WhyCantWeWin]

I’m assuming that’s Hendricks last chance on Sunday. If he can’t stifle a team as bad as the marlins then he has no place in the majors. 

[Jason Ross]

15 minutes ago, WhyCantWeWin said:

I’m assuming that’s Hendricks last chance on Sunday. If he can’t stifle a team as bad as the marlins then he has no place in the majors. 

I'm just not sure what the Cubs can do unless they're willing to DFA Kyle before May 1st. 

1. He can't go to Triple-A with a fake injury. The MLB just nailed the Mets for this. Kyle has been awful. It'll be clear as day.

2. He doesn't really profile as a BP arm. The velo and stuff just isn't useful there. Maybe he mops up, but it'll be hard to really get much feedback there. 

3. He *could* accept a demotion. But when was the last time any MLB player accepted a demotion on their own like this? 

4. Back to the original point. Are the Cubs really cutting bait on a 2.5 fWAR SP last year after 5 starts? With no velo drop?

I really don't know what the Cubs can do. They're in a rock and a hard place situation. You can make an argument he's done. You can make an argument he's not. I am glad I don't have the make the choice. 

[Rcal10]

41 minutes ago, 1908_Cubs said:

They don't have any when they play, sure, but wouldn't you rather get 2-3 PAs of a LHH in a game than sit him in the bench in the event you *maybe* need one? 

And as @Transmogrified Tigerpointed out, other than a C, who do you really want to PH for? 

I don't like Tauchmann that much, bur against a RHP, start Mike.

Then maybe instead of Canario they should bring Mervis up. Tauchman can start and Mervis can be on the bench. When a lefty starts both Wisdom and Cooper can start. Wisdom can play left. I would just like an option for a lefty bat in the bench. Does it really matter if the last guy is Mervis or Canario? 

[Jason Ross]

23 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

Then maybe instead of Canario they should bring Mervis up. Tauchman can start and Mervis can be on the bench. When a lefty starts both Wisdom and Cooper can start. Wisdom can play left. I would just like an option for a lefty bat in the bench. Does it really matter if the last guy is Mervis or Canario? 

Mervis can't play the OF. The Cubs cannot have an OF where Patrick Wisdom is the 4th OF'er. He is barely an OFer'.

Sure it'd be nice to have an option for a left handed hitter, but it feels like an option is all it really is. They'll have those options when a LHP starts, considering Canario would take the start, and Tauchmann would remain on the bench. When a RHP starts..again...who are you worried about pinch hitting for? The catcher is really the only PH spot the Cubs have most days where you'd want a lefty on the bench. 

[Rcal10]

1 hour ago, 1908_Cubs said:

Mervis can't play the OF. The Cubs cannot have an OF where Patrick Wisdom is the 4th OF'er. He is barely an OFer'.

Sure it'd be nice to have an option for a left handed hitter, but it feels like an option is all it really is. They'll have those options when a LHP starts, considering Canario would take the start, and Tauchmann would remain on the bench. When a RHP starts..again...who are you worried about pinch hitting for? The catcher is really the only PH spot the Cubs have most days where you'd want a lefty on the bench. 

Which brings us full circle back to “too bad PCA is sucking right now”.This would have been his spot. Or maybe Peralta, if he is healthy and can play the outfield. He  would make se se instead of Canario. At least if it was him Canario would be playing everyday in the minors. 
Look, I know what you are saying is right. I just wish they had a better option. 

[Stratos]

4 hours ago, Rcal10 said:

Then maybe instead of Canario they should bring Mervis up. Tauchman can start and Mervis can be on the bench. When a lefty starts both Wisdom and Cooper can start. Wisdom can play left. I would just like an option for a lefty bat in the bench. Does it really matter if the last guy is Mervis or Canario? 

I'm keen on getting Mervis up with the team somehow, he could fit as a DH vs RHP.  I still like his bat.  With Busch and Cooper plus Wisdom I just don't know how it happens without an injury to Busch at this point.  They aren't going to carry a whole bunch of 1B.

They need Canario up as an OF though, they can't roll with 3 OF, and he compliments Tauchman with the RHB.  Mastro sucks and looks like Cooper may only play OF in a pinch vs LHP, he doesn't seem to move very well.

I would like to see Mastrobuoni swapped with someone, possibly even Mervis.  Between Swanson, Nico, Madrigal, and Morel I think we have enough players who can play middle INF at least in a pinch, Mastro doesn't fill a role if he can't hit or even field particularly well and he's just rotting on the bench as an emergency infielder at this point.

Edited April 19, 2024 by Stratos

[chibears55]

44 minutes ago, Stratos said:

I'm keen on getting Mervis up with the team somehow, he could fit as a DH vs RHP.  I still like his bat.  With Busch and Cooper plus Wisdom I just don't know how it happens without an injury to Busch at this point.  They aren't going to carry a whole bunch of 1B.

They need Canario up as an OF though, they can't roll with 3 OF, and he compliments Tauchman with the RHB.  Mastro sucks and looks like Cooper may only play OF in a pinch vs LHP, he doesn't seem to move very well.

I would like to see Mastrobuoni swapped with someone, possibly even Mervis.  Between Swanson, Nico, Madrigal, and Morel I think we have enough players who can play middle INF at least in a pinch, Mastro doesn't fill a role if he can't hit or even field particularly well and he's just rotting on the bench as an emergency infielder at this point.

I can see the Cubs having a new bench outside of Catchers in the near future..

Cooper, Tauchman, and Madrigal won't last the whole season with the Cubs 

 

[Rcal10]

7 hours ago, chibears55 said:

I can see the Cubs having a new bench outside of Catchers in the near future..

Cooper, Tauchman, and Madrigal won't last the whole season with the Cubs 

 

All 3 won’t last? Who do you expect the  bench to be? And what time frame is near future? Your comment is very vague. 

Edited April 19, 2024 by Rcal10

[thawv]

On 4/18/2024 at 10:09 AM, UMFan83 said:

Brewer or Ben Brown are options.  I know it sounds crazy to send Brown down and wouldnt be my choice but perhaps they want to keep him stretched out and roughly on schedule with Hendricks to replace him if he doesnt show signs of improvement. 

He went 6 innings and 85 pitches last outing.  He's pretty stretched out.  Why would he have to go to Iowa to continue as a SP?  He's been our second best MLB pitcher.  He helps the most in the rotation

[thawv]

What are the chances that if Kyle struggles right away, Brown comes in with the intention to throw 6-7 innings?   Or close to 100 pitches.  That pitch count seems to be his next level to complete his stretching out.

Edited April 19, 2024 by thawv

[WhyCantWeWin]

Ross and Counsell do share one thing, their mutual hatred for Canario. Play the kid. 

[KCCub]

 

Yep, stinks no Canario. Wisdom in RF batting 2nd....

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Wisdom is better than Canario.  Maybe if you're really bearish on Wisdom the defensive RF that gap closes enough to make it a coin flip, but especially in small doses like injury replacement short sided platoons, it's a pretty easy decision.

[Jason Ross]

2 minutes ago, WhyCantWeWin said:

Ross and Counsell do share one thing, their mutual hatred for Canario. Play the kid. 

Canario just isn't very exciting and I think fans like to overrate him simply because he's young. There's major issues with his profile. For example, he's sporting a 32.5% in zone whiff% this year. This is at Triple-A. Only two major league hitters have worse in-zone whiff rates on the year. The MLB average is 17.5%.  We can safely assume that number is going to go up as the competition does. His overall contact% is 62.5%. League average at the MLB level is 75%. Seven hitters have a worse contact rate the the MLB level. These numbers are in small sample sizes, but he also isn't someone who's blowing down the doors of inferior pitching. 

Alexander Canario is younger than Mike Tauchmann. And I don't find Mike Tauchmann particularly exciting or exceptional. But just because a player is younger does not mean he has all of the potential in the world, nor does it automatically make him better. Canario has struggled to make even decent levels of contact at Triple-A so far on the year. 

I don't want to make it seem like he's a dead prospect or that there's no hope. Especially as a platoon partner, right now, Canario has use. But I think we're getting a little ahead of ourselves being upset the Cubs haven't prioritized Canario. They shouldn't be. He's a decent player in the organization, but he's not the kind of prospect you force into the lineup. If Canario forces his way in, great. But he needs to force it himself.

[WhyCantWeWin]

5 minutes ago, 1908_Cubs said:

Canario just isn't very exciting and I think fans like to overrate him simply because he's young. There's major issues with his profile. For example, he's sporting a 32.5% in zone whiff% this year. This is at Triple-A. Only two major league hitters have worse in-zone whiff rates on the year. The MLB average is 17.5%.  We can safely assume that number is going to go up as the competition does. His overall contact% is 62.5%. League average at the MLB level is 75%. Seven hitters have a worse contact rate the the MLB level. These numbers are in small sample sizes, but he also isn't someone who's blowing down the doors of inferior pitching. 

Alexander Canario is younger than Mike Tauchmann. And I don't find Mike Tauchmann particularly exciting or exceptional. But just because a player is younger does not mean he has all of the potential in the world, nor does it automatically make him better. Canario has struggled to make even decent levels of contact at Triple-A so far on the year. 

I don't want to make it seem like he's a dead prospect or that there's no hope. Especially as a platoon partner, right now, Canario has use. But I think we're getting a little ahead of ourselves being upset the Cubs haven't prioritized Canario. They shouldn't be. He's a decent player in the organization, but he's not the kind of prospect you force into the lineup. If Canario forces his way in, great. But he needs to force it himself.

I get that but you got to give him a chance to play, aside from strikeouts he’s played pretty well in his brief sample size. Morel at 3B and Wisdom at DH with Canario in RF would have made way more sense. Hopefully there aren’t too many balls hit his way. 

[KCCub]

8 minutes ago, 1908_Cubs said:

If Canario forces his way in, great. But he needs to force it himself.

Hard to do when you don't get a shot. We didn't give Velazquez a shot last year, either. It's not necessarily that I like Canario as a prospect and I understand why they moved Velazquez at the time, but pencil me in as wanting to have higher upside guys get opportunities on the bench/playing time as opposed to what we've had on the bench the past two seasons. Next year is Canario's last option year correct? With PCA and Caissie looming, Canario probably won't get many more opportunities, especially with the choice of lineup today. 

[chibears55]

49 minutes ago, KCCub said:

 

Yep, stinks no Canario. Wisdom in RF batting 2nd....

That was predictable,  especially since he got a game or two there in Iowa.

 

[Transmogrified Tiger]

This year so far 9 players at Iowa have had at least 35 PA, Canario is 7th of 9 in OPS.  He was 7th of 13 among Iowa players w/ 100 PA last year.  He clearly has some talent but his pedigree and performance do not justify anyone thinking he is more than a *potential* 4th OF or short sided platoon bat, which is what we have seen players like Wisdom have *proven* they can be.  It's fun to dream on the 5-10% chance that Canario flips a switch and becomes Marcell Ozuna lite or something, but for the purposes of a competitive team winning games, he should not be playing more than he has.  His MLB success is *because* of the shielding he has received and not in spite of it.

[Jason Ross]

27 minutes ago, KCCub said:

Hard to do when you don't get a shot. We didn't give Velazquez a shot last year, either. It's not necessarily that I like Canario as a prospect and I understand why they moved Velazquez at the time, but pencil me in as wanting to have higher upside guys get opportunities on the bench/playing time as opposed to what we've had on the bench the past two seasons. Next year is Canario's last option year correct? With PCA and Caissie looming, Canario probably won't get many more opportunities, especially with the choice of lineup today. 

What has he done in Triple-A to force it, though? His contact rates suck and this isn't an aberration or new; it's been a consistent question on Canario his entire career. These correlate at some of the highest levels to what to expect at the MLB. He'd be among the worst contact hitters in the MLB right now.  Not everyone needs to get a chance simply because they're 24. 

I'm not against Canario getting shots against LHP. I'd say I'm pretty negative on Wisdom's ability to handle RF; he's handled third like a DH level defender for two years. With that said, he's a more consistent MLB bat. And I say this as someone who's been pretty down on Wisdom. For years. I just don't think Wisdom over Canario is a major slight. It's very six in one hand and half a dozen in the other. I'd have little issue with them going with either.

[UMFan83]

1 hour ago, thawv said:

He went 6 innings and 85 pitches last outing.  He's pretty stretched out.  Why would he have to go to Iowa to continue as a SP?  He's been our second best MLB pitcher.  He helps the most in the rotation

Well as I said, to keep him stretched out. He's already been removed from the rotation, that's been decided.  But Hendricks has to be on a short leash at this point and you'd think Brown would be next in line to go back to the rotation should Hendricks continue to falter.  Thus wanting to keep him stretched out.

I think he can be useful for us out of the pen though as a multi-inning guy for now, I was just speculating on potential players to send down for Taillon 

[mul21]

16 minutes ago, UMFan83 said:

Well as I said, to keep him stretched out. He's already been removed from the rotation, that's been decided.  But Hendricks has to be on a short leash at this point and you'd think Brown would be next in line to go back to the rotation should Hendricks continue to falter.  Thus wanting to keep him stretched out.

I think he can be useful for us out of the pen though as a multi-inning guy for now, I was just speculating on potential players to send down for Taillon 

He has?  I missed that bit of news if it's been declared specifically by the Cubs.

[Nolansomebody]

Just saw the lineup. Weird choice by the Cubs to put Wisdom 2nd in the batting order. I saw he had some good stats in Iowa, but that decision feels a little iffy to me.

[spaincubsfan]

17 hours ago, 1908_Cubs said:

I'm just not sure what the Cubs can do unless they're willing to DFA Kyle before May 1st. 

1. He can't go to Triple-A with a fake injury. The MLB just nailed the Mets for this. Kyle has been awful. It'll be clear as day.

2. He doesn't really profile as a BP arm. The velo and stuff just isn't useful there. Maybe he mops up, but it'll be hard to really get much feedback there. 

3. He *could* accept a demotion. But when was the last time any MLB player accepted a demotion on their own like this? 

4. Back to the original point. Are the Cubs really cutting bait on a 2.5 fWAR SP last year after 5 starts? With no velo drop?

I really don't know what the Cubs can do. They're in a rock and a hard place situation. You can make an argument he's done. You can make an argument he's not. I am glad I don't have the make the choice. 

As much as I love the Prof and his eternal contributions, I was not a fan of them picking up his option. That money could have been used to pay for the majority of a salary for Montgomery.

But I digress and he is defintely not a BP arm, but the point stands as to how long you keep sending him out with it being a highly probable loss?

[KCCub]

I want to be clear, my disappointment is not Wisdom vs Canario specifically, as there's multiple ways we could of had both Canario and Wisdom in the lineup today. It's more so how we've configured our bench from a macro strategy the past couple years and selecting to use vets with low ceilings (Mancini, Hosmer, Tauchman, Cooper, Barnhart, etc) vs our own young guys who might be riskier, but also provide more upside. The same things were said last year about Velazquez's big league success was a result of being shielded. I fully understand from a micro strategy, that for instance, Wisdom is probably the better play today on paper than Canario, but damn it sucks that it's very apparent he's not going to get a shot with the upside he showed in his 2022 season. He's going to get passed by PCA/Caissie and we'll likely have to move him next year. 

 

Summary - I'm risk aggressive and even with Canario's contact concerns he's still produced at every level, I don't think it's extremely far fetched to give him more of a shot when our typical bench players have career wRC+'s of 56, 90, 97, 108, & 111.