Spring Training Chit Chats

[CubinNY]

PCA is fine. Give a guy a learning curve. 

[CubinNY]

Edwards is having a good spring. At first I thought they were giving him a landing spot to showcase, but I think he has a shot to make the pen. 

Edited March 9, 2024 by CubinNY

[ToolDRT]

I don’t have high hopes for his bat myself, but it’s ridiculous to be anywhere near throwing in the towel on him yet. Twitter is just nuts. 

[chibears55]

2 hours ago, UMFan83 said:

I’m very confused about why there is a Twitter discourse right now about whether PCA is a bust. I saw someone compare him to Almora last night, completely ignoring that PCA is a significantly better fielder than Almora and Almoras last 2 minor league seasons he had an OPS below .730 while PCA has consistently had a high .800s OPS. 
 

i always saw him as an elite fielder and slightly above average bat and I still believe that. 

Cause there are meathead fans that if a young talnted player don't perform in their first 50 pro AB or in ST they have an over reaction response and peg them a bust.

🙄

[Post Count Padder]

PCA is going to be just 22 still in a couple weeks and has shown up against upper minors pitching. He's going to be ok. Maybe he won't be a superstar but I'm hoping he can be our Kevin Kiermaier. There's a lot of value to that. Some people will just never be happy.

[chibears55]

Be interesting to see if Cooper and D.Smith continue to have a good Spring if Jed will consider taking offers for Mervis and or Wisdom .

[Backtobanks]

Giants put Davis on waivers if we don't have enough good batting/lousy fielding 3B/1B/DH candidates.

 

[Rcal10]

25 minutes ago, Backtobanks said:

Giants put Davis on waivers if we don't have enough good batting/lousy fielding 3B/1B/DH candidates.

 

I know it is only 1 year, but didn’t Davis grade out as a positive defensive 3rd baseman last year? 

[Rcal10]

1 hour ago, Post Count Padder said:

PCA is going to be just 22 still in a couple weeks and has shown up against upper minors pitching. He's going to be ok. Maybe he won't be a superstar but I'm hoping he can be our Kevin Kiermaier. There's a lot of value to that. Some people will just never be happy.

If you are hoping he is the Cubs Kiermaier you are saying you hope he can hit slightly below major league average. While his defense and a just under average bat is of value, it isn’t exactly what most hope for from him. But I think if most people are being honest that would be a little underwhelming for them. I do agree with you, he has a good chance be that guy. But I do want more. Guess I am one of those fans who is never happy. 

[Backtobanks]

26 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

I know it is only 1 year, but didn’t Davis grade out as a positive defensive 3rd baseman last year? 

No he's pretty bad, but he can hit.

 

[Backtobanks]

2 hours ago, Post Count Padder said:

PCA is going to be just 22 still in a couple weeks and has shown up against upper minors pitching. He's going to be ok. Maybe he won't be a superstar but I'm hoping he can be our Kevin Kiermaier. There's a lot of value to that. Some people will just never be happy.

He could have a long career as a solid CF on a team with enough offense to make up for it.

[Rcal10]

21 minutes ago, Backtobanks said:

No he's pretty bad, but he can hit.

 

I do remember him with the Mets. I agree, he was brutal. I was very surprised to see he was viewed as a decent third baseman last year. Guess it was a fluke. 

[Post Count Padder]

44 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

If you are hoping he is the Cubs Kiermaier you are saying you hope he can hit slightly below major league average. While his defense and a just under average bat is of value, it isn’t exactly what most hope for from him. But I think if most people are being honest that would be a little underwhelming for them. I do agree with you, he has a good chance be that guy. But I do want more. Guess I am one of those fans who is never happy. 

I mean you're right, I want more than that, that's just the baseline I hope for. The fans who are never happy are the ones saying he's already washed based on a cup of coffee and one spring training.

[Rcal10]

17 minutes ago, Backtobanks said:

He could have a long career as a solid CF on a team with enough offense to make up for it.

I agree with this, but I think most fans expected more. Maybe they still do. I remember someone suggesting he should be an 850OPS guy during his prime years. While I think he can be very valuable as a glove first guy who can hit league average, I don’t see that 850 guy. I would be very happy with a guy at a 760 OPS with great defense. Something like .265/..335/.760. That would be a solid starting balllayer when coupled with his defense and base running. 

[Rcal10]

2 minutes ago, Post Count Padder said:

I mean you're right, I want more than that, that's just the baseline I hope for. The fans who are never happy are the ones saying he's already washed based on a cup of coffee and one spring training.

Oh, ok. No I am not damming him to failure. But he does need work. To me Kiermaier is his floor, I HOPE. I agree some people overreact. 

[Stratos]

9 hours ago, UMFan83 said:

I’m very confused about why there is a Twitter discourse right now about whether PCA is a bust. I saw someone compare him to Almora last night, completely ignoring that PCA is a significantly better fielder than Almora and Almoras last 2 minor league seasons he had an OPS below .730 while PCA has consistently had a high .800s OPS. 
 

i always saw him as an elite fielder and slightly above average bat and I still believe that. 

I think the hit tool is average to below average at best, the power is about average, and the swing decisions are average at best and probably below average based on his general aggressiveness as a player.  As a pure hitter in the box he probably ends up average at best with a very real chance to be below average.

His best offensive ability is his speed, but his baserunning skills aren't exactly refined, he's just very aggressive.  I think his AVG, OBP, and SLG in the minors have been inflated by his excellent speed.  Bunt hits, beating out grounders, taking an extra base on a hit etc.  It still counts, but I think it hides some of his lack of skill in his actual hitting abilities at the plate if we just look at the stats.

Left-handed Corey Patterson isn't a bad comp, but PCA hopefully walks more.  Like Patterson, the most value probably comes from the glove and wheels.

[Derwood]

27 minutes ago, Stratos said:

 

Left-handed Corey Patterson isn't a bad comp, but PCA hopefully walks more.  Like Patterson, the most value probably comes from the glove and wheels.

Patterson batted left, but point taken

[Transmogrified Tiger]

PCA has some decent flame out risk because of the swing and miss he's displayed, which you can divide responsibility how you please between swing decisions, bat to ball ability, and mechanics.  I've been as loud as anyone about wanting him to start in Iowa, but it's not because I'm down on him relative to last summer.  He needs reps to help refine those things, which probably has outsized impact compared to the average prospect since he just hit 1000 total PA in MLB.

I have a tough time getting on board with the average power complaint though, he had 14 HR in 73 AA games for a .238 IsoP, and has a .200+ Iso at every level as a Cub.  They overhauled his swing and he has more physical maturation in his future, both which can be harbingers of greater future power too.  Longenhagen comped his peak seasons to Mike Cameron, and I think that's a very fair positive outcome all around.

[thawv]

23 hours ago, Rcal10 said:

And if that is true he isn’t going to ever be a major league pitcher. And if he can’t throw strikes he isn’t someone you should be so excited about. He is 24. Who cares how many years he has played minor league ball.  Based on his age he was obviously drafted very young. But even with 8 years of experience he still didn’t pitch that much. There was Covid, when almost all of baseball shut down. He also missed plenty of time with injuries. Through 2021 he pitched a total off 100 innings in the minors. Besides that, he has only been with the Cubs a little over 2 seasons. I really never considered this a make or break spring for him. But that is exactly what you are suggesting it should have been. I will say it again, relax buddy. I’d he is as filthy as you say AND he can harness that mix a bit better and throw more strikes he will be up either as a solid pen arm, or a starter soon enough. 

With 3 plus/plus pitches, that should tell us how filthy he actually is.  And the eye test also tells us he's filthy.  I'm just saying that if can's harness his control by now, there's a very good chance that this is who he is.  And if this is who he is, if they're not putting him the rotation any time soon, he could be a high leverage reliever today.  I don't think this is a make or break trade.  Looking at his stuff, and seeing him pitch, at the very least, he should be in the pen.  Even with control issues.  In the pen he doesn't need all 3 pitches to be on a particular day.  Don't use the one that's causing control issues that day.  Also, I can see an uptick in velo in 1 inning bursts.

[thawv]

13 hours ago, Rcal10 said:

I do remember him with the Mets. I agree, he was brutal. I was very surprised to see he was viewed as a decent third baseman last year. Guess it was a fluke. 

You asked about last year.  Last year he was a top 10 defensive 3B.  Over his career, not so much.  But also, last season was the first season that he played primarily 3B.  It's also the only year he was a positive defensive 3B.  So maybe there's something to that?

 

14 hours ago, Rcal10 said:

I know it is only 1 year, but didn’t Davis grade out as a positive defensive 3rd baseman last year? 

 

 

[Bobson Dugnutt]

I would be thrilled if PCA’s career wound up looking like Kevin Kiermaier’s.

Edited March 10, 2024 by Bobson Dugnutt

[Rcal10]

28 minutes ago, thawv said:

With 3 plus/plus pitches, that should tell us how filthy he actually is.  And the eye test also tells us he's filthy.  I'm just saying that if can's harness his control by now, there's a very good chance that this is who he is.  And if this is who he is, if they're not putting him the rotation any time soon, he could be a high leverage reliever today.  I don't think this is a make or break trade.  Looking at his stuff, and seeing him pitch, at the very least, he should be in the pen.  Even with control issues.  In the pen he doesn't need all 3 pitches to be on a particular day.  Don't use the one that's causing control issues that day.  Also, I can see an uptick in velo in 1 inning bursts.

Maybe you don’t consider this a make or break spring , but you did say put him on the roster or trade him. That seems pretty make or break to me. 
Even with all those year in the minors that you keep referring to, he hasn’t thrown that many innings there. Through 2021 he was around 100 innings. I will say it again, just relax your time line a little. He doesn’t have to be in the pen now. And maybe sending him down he starts and actually figures out how to throw more strikes. He would be much more valuable as a TOR starter than an 8th inning pen guy. And if he doesn’t figure it out they can always convert him then into that pen arm you want now. I do think he ends up a solid pen arm. But to me, it is worth it to see if he can start. And the place for that is AAA. 

[Rcal10]

6 minutes ago, Bobson Dugnutt said:

I would be thrilled if PCA’s career wound up looking like Kevin Kiermaier’s.

Not me. That would mean people concerned about his hit tool are right. He can’t hit. I am not willing to accept that yet, and would never be thrilled with it. He might very well be just that and have a decent career. But I think most people, including me, hope for more out of him. 

[thawv]

1 minute ago, Rcal10 said:

Maybe you don’t consider this a make or break spring , but you did say put him on the roster or trade him. That seems pretty make or break to me. 
Even with all those year in the minors that you keep referring to, he hasn’t thrown that many innings there. Through 2021 he was around 100 innings. I will say it again, just relax your time line a little. He doesn’t have to be in the pen now. And maybe sending him down he starts and actually figures out how to throw more strikes. He would be much more valuable as a TOR starter than an 8th inning pen guy. And if he doesn’t figure it out they can always convert him then into that pen arm you want now. I do think he ends up a solid pen arm. But to me, it is worth it to see if he can start. And the place for that is AAA. 

I think his time is today.  If they don't want to use him as a SP, or as a RP, what are they doing with him?  I agree that if they are dead set on him being a SP, then AAA is the spot right now.  If they plan on moving him to the pen, he should not be in AAA.  I'd say that he would be one of the top 3-4 guys in the pen right now.  So it's clear that a SP is still their goal.  What if he's in AAA and working out of the pen?  How awful would that be?  I think it would be criminal. 

[thawv]

12 minutes ago, Bobson Dugnutt said:

I would be thrilled if PCA’s career wound up looking like Kevin Kiermaier’s.

If Kiermaier is his his ceiling, I'd be so disappointed.   I guess I'd begrudgingly settle for a Kiermaier career, but it would most certainly be a disappointment to me.