Bears vs Vikings on MNF

[gflore34]

2 minutes ago, raw said:

Fields has to play Flus proof ball. Like settling for FGs does nothing. Of course, play calling for an inside zone on 3rd and 7, is BS, just check out of that horsefeathers and throw it to DJ. F these coaches, they don't have a future in the league, you maybe do.

I think I said this in the other thread, but it's amazing how all the mistakes seemed to come back with Justin in there instead of Bagent. Late getting out of the huddle stuff. WRs not knowing where to line up a couple plays. The deep ball incompletion to DJ, Mooney was running to the same spot before he stopped seeing DJ closer to it. The stuff with the backup C. Tyler Scott slowing down on a pass that would have hit him in stride. Not blaming Fields for this stuff, but I wonder if the other players kinda of let off the gas a little knowing that they don't have to carry a limited ability QB anymore. 

Fields is way to scared of doing something wrong to ever be that confident.  I agree though at some point with Fields its got to be horsefeathers these schmucks I'm going for it.

[minnesotacubsfan]

9 minutes ago, raw said:

..........Not blaming Fields for this stuff, but I wonder if the other players kinda of let off the gas a little knowing that they don't have to carry a limited ability QB anymore. 

or they expect JF to just take off running (?)

[WrigleyField 22]

I still love Fields, but as far as I could possibly go re: the draft with a top 2 pick is still picking one of Williams or Maye and setting up a Brees/Rivers or Aikman/Walsh scenario with Fields+pick .  And Fields really has to ball out to get there. 

[PosterToBeNamedLater]

2 hours ago, WrigleyField 22 said:

I still love Fields, but as far as I could possibly go re: the draft with a top 2 pick is still picking one of Williams or Maye and setting up a Brees/Rivers or Aikman/Walsh scenario with Fields+pick .  And Fields really has to ball out to get there. 

I know Fields would still be under contract, but I would imagine he would request a trade if we pick either Maye or Williams.  I think he has had enough success that he would be able to do that, as opposed to someone like Wilson for the Jets when they added Rodgers.  I just don't see us keeping him if we do pick a QB.  

Edited November 21, 2023 by PosterToBeNamedLater

[WrigleyField 22]

17 minutes ago, PosterToBeNamedLater said:

I know Fields would still be under contract, but I would imagine he would request a trade if we pick either Maye or Williams.  I think he has had enough success that he would be able to do that, as opposed to someone like Wilson for the Jets when they added Rogers.  I just don't see us keeping him if we do pick a QB.  

I mean he can request away, but if he plays well enough that Bears want to see another year out of him they are probably also doing so with confidence to put the 5th year tag on him.  This hypothetical isn't likely at all.  What's the most likely scenario is trading Fields for best pick and maybe he does well enough that said pick is top 40.

Edited November 21, 2023 by WrigleyField 22

[WrigleyField 22]

Gut check odds:

Fields + Top 2 pick share QB room : 2%

Fields as bridge QB to non top 2 QB b/c Carolina plays their pick out of top spot : 8%

Top 2 pick at QB and Fields traded away for top 50 pick or equivalent value : 45%

Top 3 pick at QB and Fields traded away for 3rd or worse : 45%

 

(for point of reference Sam Darnold went for basically high 3rd cumulative pick value after his third year in league. across 3 picks, two of them being deferred picks to the following year)

Edited November 21, 2023 by WrigleyField 22

[Thurman Merman]

I think an interesting thing to consider if trading is an option is whether picking up his 5th year option is a plus or minus for his trade value.  Assuming he plays well enough to be wanted, but not well enough for us to not pick a QB with the first pick.

[WrigleyField 22]

1 hour ago, Thurman Merman said:

I think an interesting thing to consider if trading is an option is whether picking up his 5th year option is a plus or minus for his trade value.  Assuming he plays well enough to be wanted, but not well enough for us to not pick a QB with the first pick.

I mean, we really only have to look back to two recent QB examples to see the relatively low downside risk and high upside risk of picking up the option if he's good enough even to be a one year QB.

 

Daniel Jones playing well enough without a 5th year option to "force" NYG into a much bigger, and oops, much worse deal.

Wentz being basically twice failed and pretty clearly cooked, still getting flipped a second time on a 28M salary for roughly a 3rd/4th Rd net value. Or more accurately 13% of the salary cap whereas a 5th year Fields will be under 9% of the cap.

 

You also have until May to make the decision, so in all likelihood the new team is making that call, but not picking it up for any team planning to start him in 2024 would be a stupid afraid-to-fail decision.

[BigbadB]

Neatly connected to this Fields debate is the coaching staff. What are his feelings about Getsy's playcalling? How good can we expect Fields to be with a new coach and OC and new offensive scheme? Can you switch head coaches while keeping Getsy? 

Obviously, a new QB should also come with new coaching. If you hire a new head coach that was an active OC, do you bring a QB from his team that can bridge the gap until the rookie is ready or actually beats the veteran out of the job? For example, Pete Carmichael and Jamies Winston in NO. 

I doubt Poles goes anywhere. He's had some big misses, but in general, a good offseason of adds in free agency and the draft should give him the roster he envisioned when he took the job. To some, maybe a year too late, but given what he had to work with that first season, maybe it did take this long to get there. 

 

 

[jersey cubs fan]

Watching Philly go into KC and steal a win with a qb that did nothing really makes me jealous of a front office that knows how to build a quality team top to bottom. The eagles are loaded with talent and seemingly reload with top end talent every few years. They lived through and thrived on a failed franchise QB situation because the cap isn’t real. The bears could do similar things, if any of the gm’s 2nd round draft picks weren’t all such mediocrities and the free agent signings did anything good. I’d rather be KC in the long term, but until you stumble on your Mahomes you should just keep acquiring blue chip talent at every opportunity. Treat QBs like RBs until you find a real one. Don’t put it all on a rookie savior. 

[jersey cubs fan]

9 minutes ago, BigbadB said:

. To some, maybe a year too late, but given what he had to work with that first season, maybe it did take this long to get there. 

 

 

And where exactly is there? Bottom of the division. Completely lost about what to do next. Picking at the top of the draft again. 
This team is 3-8 today because of Ryan Poles, not because of what Ryan Poles inherited. Ryan Poles sat on his hands and let the team flounder when it could have been taking steps to improve. 
 

the next good free agent signing he makes will be his first. 

[BigbadB]

7 minutes ago, jersey cubs fan said:

And where exactly is there? Bottom of the division. Completely lost about what to do next. Picking at the top of the draft again. 

I was referring to after this upcoming free agency and draft period. To you, obviously a year too late. I think it was always going to take a third year of free agency and picks given how barren the roster actually was when he started. Of course, next year hasn't played out yet. I'm just assuming they will have a good team because they were able to keep pace with a strong Detroit team and there are still an offseason of free agent signings and draft picks to add to the roster.

I'm not happy with how this season has played out. But, I also don't think we could expect Poles to hit on every free agent and draft pick. As far as free agents, I'll disagree with your assessment that he hasn't signed a good one yet. He certainly could have done better with what he's had to work with.

[jersey cubs fan]

10 minutes ago, BigbadB said:

I was referring to after this upcoming free agency and draft period. To you, obviously a year too late. I think it was always going to take a third year of free agency and picks given how barren the roster actually was when he started. Of course, next year hasn't played out yet. I'm just assuming they will have a good team because they were able to keep pace with a strong Detroit team and there are still an offseason of free agent signings and draft picks to add to the roster.

I'm not happy with how this season has played out. But, I also don't think we could expect Poles to hit on every free agent and draft pick. As far as free agents, I'll disagree with your assessment that he hasn't signed a good one yet. He certainly could have done better with what he's had to work with.

What about Poles’ two failed free agency periods convinced you the third will go well? 

[raw]

10 minutes ago, BigbadB said:

I was referring to after this upcoming free agency and draft period. To you, obviously a year too late. I think it was always going to take a third year of free agency and picks given how barren the roster actually was when he started. Of course, next year hasn't played out yet. I'm just assuming they will have a good team because they were able to keep pace with a strong Detroit team and there are still an offseason of free agent signings and draft picks to add to the roster.

I'm not happy with how this season has played out. But, I also don't think we could expect Poles to hit on every free agent and draft pick. As far as free agents, I'll disagree with your assessment that he hasn't signed a good one yet. He certainly could have done better with what he's had to work with.

Yeah, it was always going to take a 3rd year to be good. But 3-8 after a 3-14 season makes it so being good isn't even the next logical step. Being close to Detroit is fun and all, but this team still got embarrassed by KC and LAC. They still haven't beaten anyone of substance.

Last year's roster looked exactly what 3-win, top of the draft order rosters look like. It didn't HAVE to look like that, Poles chose that. There was not 1 long-term asset to this team added last offseason, outside of the draft. Which obviously you want to build thru the draft, but they didn't have enough high draft picks that or this past offseason combined to do that without adding pieces in free agency. 

This year's roster has no business being top 5 bad again. Poles actually tried to field a team this offseason and it's still bad. Maybe it's because of the roster he put together in '22 (his fault), maybe it's because of coaching (his fault), maybe it's because of the QB situation (his fault) but it's bad. 

[raw]

38 minutes ago, jersey cubs fan said:

Watching Philly go into KC and steal a win with a qb that did nothing really makes me jealous of a front office that knows how to build a quality team top to bottom. The eagles are loaded with talent and seemingly reload with top end talent every few years. They lived through and thrived on a failed franchise QB situation because the cap isn’t real. The bears could do similar things, if any of the gm’s 2nd round draft picks weren’t all such mediocrities and the free agent signings did anything good. I’d rather be KC in the long term, but until you stumble on your Mahomes you should just keep acquiring blue chip talent at every opportunity. Treat QBs like RBs until you find a real one. Don’t put it all on a rookie savior. 

So, these last 2 sentences is actually making me re-think things. These are really good thoughts. 

The "new coach/new QB" scenario has worked. Right now, it's working in Houston. Obviously, 2nd in draft to currently in a playoff spot in the superior conference. But it's also has not worked even more. It didn't work in Jacksonville, technically (Urban Meyer). It didn't work for NYJ of the recent examples.

Putting everything on a rookie is tough in the Bears' situation. There are still a bunch of young players on this team (most of the OL, Kmet, RBs, DBs), but Poles didn't bring in guys like DJ Moore and Montez Sweat to sit around and wait 2-3 years for a rookie QB to lead them to wins. A lot of luck would need to be involved in the new coaching hire, but it's definitely a good point that we shouldn't automatically expect the results in Houston in 2024.

[CubinNY]

13 hours ago, WrigleyField 22 said:

I still love Fields, but as far as I could possibly go re: the draft with a top 2 pick is still picking one of Williams or Maye and setting up a Brees/Rivers or Aikman/Walsh scenario with Fields+pick .  And Fields really has to ball out to get there. 

If the Bears are in a positon to have 1 and 2 Fields will have played himself out of a job

 

[Outshined_One]

27 minutes ago, CubinNY said:

If the Bears are in a positon to have 1 and 2 Fields will have played himself out of a job

 

I can see the scenarios where the Bears get a top 5 draft slot with their own pick, but Fields plays well enough for the "will they, won't they" game in the offseason. This defense is not historically bad (thanks Mel Tucker!), but it's bad enough that it can't be trusted to hold leads late or keep games close.

Granted, those scenarios are unlikely.

[gflore34]

Just now, Outshined_One said:

I can see the scenarios where the Bears get a top 5 draft slot with their own pick, but Fields plays well enough for the "will they, won't they" game in the offseason. This defense is not historically bad (thanks Mel Tucker!), but it's bad enough that it can't be trusted to hold leads late or keep games close.

Granted, those scenarios are unlikely.

There's always the excellent, if not probable, chance that Fields plays well, Bears score plenty but, Eberflus and Getsy find a way to piss the game away late.

[jersey cubs fan]

6 minutes ago, Outshined_One said:

I can see the scenarios where the Bears get a top 5 draft slot with their own pick, but Fields plays well enough for the "will they, won't they" game in the offseason. This defense is not historically bad (thanks Mel Tucker!), but it's bad enough that it can't be trusted to hold leads late or keep games close.

Granted, those scenarios are unlikely.

The Bears own pick being top 5 has been on table since day one; and I’ve said all along that if their pick is that high, with this last place schedule, then the only reaponsible thing to do is clean house. GM, HC, QB all failed miserably.

the worst possible outcome is just replacing the QB and allowing the masterminds behind back to back 12+ loss seasons to waste an opportunity of a lifetime to stock this team. If they are keeping these jamokes, I’d rather Fields stay to and give them a 2024 win or else ultimatum across the board. If 2024 is another dud, then you better be cleaning house before 2025. 

[gflore34]

Checking out some of the film analysis it's hard not to be a little encouraged by the OL's improved play.  Nate Davis, when he plays, has actually been a successful Poles FA pickup.  Adding a solid center plus one of Alt or Fashanu will make this OL amongst the best in the NFC North.  If Fields is able deal with the blitzes, not be overwhelmed, they're going to gash the Vikings on Monday.  I also do not think the Browns defense is going to completely dominate this OL, in fact, wouldn't be surprised if the Bears managed to do well in that game.

[Rex Buckingham]

I don't think Poles will pick either Tackle... I think he is convinced Jones is their LT and obviously Wright is solid and getting better at RT

[Soul]

1 hour ago, jersey cubs fan said:

The Bears own pick being top 5 has been on table since day one; and I’ve said all along that if their pick is that high, with this last place schedule, then the only reaponsible thing to do is clean house. GM, HC, QB all failed miserably.

the worst possible outcome is just replacing the QB and allowing the masterminds behind back to back 12+ loss seasons to waste an opportunity of a lifetime to stock this team. If they are keeping these jamokes, I’d rather Fields stay to and give them a 2024 win or else ultimatum across the board. If 2024 is another dud, then you better be cleaning house before 2025. 

Yep.  Not sure what else to add to this other than throwing a skunk on the table.  I fully expect them to let Poles draft the next QB and at the very least he gets to stay, with potentially Eberfail as well.

[minnesotacubsfan]

11 minutes ago, Rex Buckingham said:

I don't think Poles will pick either Tackle... I think he is convinced Jones is their LT and obviously Wright is solid and getting better at RT

I could see MHJ and a trade back, possibly.

 

 

[gflore34]

31 minutes ago, Soul said:

Yep.  Not sure what else to add to this other than throwing a skunk on the table.  I fully expect them to let Poles draft the next QB and at the very least he gets to stay, with potentially Eberfail as well.

There's absolutely no empirical evidence Uberfail will improve with an improved roster.  In fact there's evidence to the contrary, he has an improved roster this year and yet, they remain terrible.  Other than some silliness about continuity or some other BS Bears policy there's no justification for keeping him.

Edited November 21, 2023 by gflore34

[mul21]

3 hours ago, jersey cubs fan said:

And where exactly is there? Bottom of the division. Completely lost about what to do next. Picking at the top of the draft again. 
This team is 3-8 today because of Ryan Poles, not because of what Ryan Poles inherited. Ryan Poles sat on his hands and let the team flounder when it could have been taking steps to improve. 
 

the next good free agent signing he makes will be his first. 

My only quibble with this is that this team isn't 3-8 bad.  This coaching staff is terrible, gutless and lacks creativity.