Chicago Bears Offseason Thread (the tank must payoff)

[minnesotacubsfan]

Based on...?

 

When he was with Baltimore, his 1st 2 seasons he was a pro bowler at RT which could mask his lack of agility better than at LT.

 

He was one of the best at RT which suits his strengths better than LT.

 

Outdated thinking. Wirfs, Lane Johnson, Sewell, and Ramczyk are top 10 overall OTs and play right side. Guys like Watt, Nick Bosa, Reddick rush exclusively from the left side of the D.

This is a fair point, you want your best on their best, regardless of sides.

 

I also disagree with Kyle's idea of muscle memory, not because it doesn't exist, but because it's not something an athlete can't overcome. For years RT was thought of being maulers not fleet-footed ballerinas. So, for decades RT was a position that was thought to be more of a power blocker. But if teams are storming the right side, a mauler won't do: you need the ballerina.

 

It used to be the opposite because left tackle protected the QBs blind side as most QBs are right handed- hence h the QB won't see it coming. The thinking now is pressure is pressure and the weaker side has been the RT side, so put your best pass rusher on that side.

[WrigleyField 22]

 

When he was with Baltimore, his 1st 2 seasons he was a pro bowler at RT which could mask his lack of agility better than at LT.

 

He was one of the best at RT which suits his strengths better than LT.

 

Outdated thinking. Wirfs, Lane Johnson, Sewell, and Ramczyk are top 10 overall OTs and play right side. Guys like Watt, Nick Bosa, Reddick rush exclusively from the left side of the D.

This is a fair point, you want your best on their best, regardless of sides.

 

I also disagree with Kyle's idea of muscle memory, not because it doesn't exist, but because it's not something an athlete can't overcome. For years RT was thought of being maulers not fleet-footed ballerinas. So, for decades RT was a position that was thought to be more of a power blocker. But if teams are storming the right side, a mauler won't do: you need the ballerina.

 

It used to be the opposite because left tackle protected the QBs blind side as most QBs are right handed- hence h the QB won't see it coming. The thinking now is pressure is pressure and the weaker side has been the RT side, so put your best pass rusher on that side.

Every guy has some natural tendencies vis a vie "sides", but it definitely exists on a spectrum and I do think most guys are ultimately adaptable with reps. Ideally if you're changing a guy you do it early in an offseason. But obviously backups have to intentionally practice both, so guys do it all the time.

 

In the case of a Nate Davis who hasn't played the left since I don't know when, I'd definitely defer to a not broke / don't fix attitude. But specific to Bears if I didn't think the staff was already low on Jenkins I probably wouldnt think much on it about one of the two making a change of sides.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Running backs should get the javy's minor league teammate treatments and not be allowed to have names. They should all just have RB 32 on the back of their jerseys and no one will even be able to tell when they're being replaced.

[scarey]

It seems Poles will want to draft a RB. Definitely makes trade down and a Bijan pick a possibility. Bijan is intriguing for sure, but I really don't like the idea of putting a 1st round pick into a RB in today's NFL.

 

I think I'd prefer the Bears grab a mid-round pick that compliments Herbert. I really like Tyjae Spears or Kenny McIntosh to fill that role.

[gflore34]

I really like the way Poles approaches asset management. I like that we went rebuild, I like that he seems to be into accumulating picks, I like that he takes a hard line on age.

 

I don't like that the end product he's working towards is the cliche Bears football of defense and run blocking, but I like the approach.

 

I'm getting the same vibes, almost every offensive player he's signed or traded for appears, for their position, to be a good run blocker. I loathe the meathead run the ball, defense approach it's woefully outdated, it will not work in today's NFL and its boring as hell. I agree running is important, most especially having a mobile QB - a Mahomes scramble was key to the Chiefs B win - but you've got to throw the ball to win games. It's puzzling to me that Poles, coming from the Chiefs, is going along such a route.

[David]

I really like the way Poles approaches asset management. I like that we went rebuild, I like that he seems to be into accumulating picks, I like that he takes a hard line on age.

 

I don't like that the end product he's working towards is the cliche Bears football of defense and run blocking, but I like the approach.

 

I'm getting the same vibes, almost every offensive player he's signed or traded for appears, for their position, to be a good run blocker. I loathe the meathead run the ball, defense approach it's woefully outdated, it will not work in today's NFL and its boring as hell. I agree running is important, most especially having a mobile QB - a Mahomes scramble was key to the Chiefs B win - but you've got to throw the ball to win games. It's puzzling to me that Poles, coming from the Chiefs, is going along such a route.

 

weird thing to say when the shanahan stuff (which is essentially what getsy is running) is all the rage.

 

the extreme run-heavy approach to play-calling last year had more to do with a lack of personnel (WRs, OL) on a tank roster than anything (maybe fields learning the offense too). but yes, they need actual dudes on the OL.

Edited March 15, 2023 by David

[Old Style]

It seems Poles will want to draft a RB. Definitely makes trade down and a Bijan pick a possibility. Bijan is intriguing for sure, but I really don't like the idea of putting a 1st round pick into a RB in today's NFL.

 

I think I'd prefer the Bears grab a mid-round pick that compliments Herbert. I really like Tyjae Spears or Kenny McIntosh to fill that role.

To no one's surprise I'm sure I would love to see the Bears grab Devon Achane. Dude can fly. He's not a great pass blocker, though. He would also double as a top flight return man.

[gflore34]

I really like the way Poles approaches asset management. I like that we went rebuild, I like that he seems to be into accumulating picks, I like that he takes a hard line on age.

 

I don't like that the end product he's working towards is the cliche Bears football of defense and run blocking, but I like the approach.

 

I'm getting the same vibes, almost every offensive player he's signed or traded for appears, for their position, to be a good run blocker. I loathe the meathead run the ball, defense approach it's woefully outdated, it will not work in today's NFL and its boring as hell. I agree running is important, most especially having a mobile QB - a Mahomes scramble was key to the Chiefs B win - but you've got to throw the ball to win games. It's puzzling to me that Poles, coming from the Chiefs, is going along such a route.

 

weird thing to say when the shanahan stuff (which is essentially what getsy is running) is all the rage.

 

the extreme run-heavy approach to play-calling last year had more to do with a lack of personnel (WRs, OL) on a tank roster than anything (maybe fields learning the offense too). but yes, they need actual dudes on the OL.

 

I meant the MO of using defense to generate TO's, control TOP by running the ball and not scoring much.

[CubinNY]

I really like the way Poles approaches asset management. I like that we went rebuild, I like that he seems to be into accumulating picks, I like that he takes a hard line on age.

 

I don't like that the end product he's working towards is the cliche Bears football of defense and run blocking, but I like the approach.

 

I'm getting the same vibes, almost every offensive player he's signed or traded for appears, for their position, to be a good run blocker. I loathe the meathead run the ball, defense approach it's woefully outdated, it will not work in today's NFL and its boring as hell. I agree running is important, most especially having a mobile QB - a Mahomes scramble was key to the Chiefs B win - but you've got to throw the ball to win games. It's puzzling to me that Poles, coming from the Chiefs, is going along such a route.

I think it's a little premature. Let's wait and see what happens after the draft and the second free-agency period. The NFL is a mimic league. One would think that the people in administration would attempt to emulate what works for other organizations. By the same token, it stands to reason that an OL guy who is a good run blocker would also be a decent pass blocker. It's not as easy to use stats to determine that in football. A lot of the Bears rushing yardage was on broken pass plays, not because they had great run blocking and poor pass blocking. They had a bad OL.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I really like the way Poles approaches asset management. I like that we went rebuild, I like that he seems to be into accumulating picks, I like that he takes a hard line on age.

 

I don't like that the end product he's working towards is the cliche Bears football of defense and run blocking, but I like the approach.

 

I'm getting the same vibes, almost every offensive player he's signed or traded for appears, for their position, to be a good run blocker. I loathe the meathead run the ball, defense approach it's woefully outdated, it will not work in today's NFL and its boring as hell. I agree running is important, most especially having a mobile QB - a Mahomes scramble was key to the Chiefs B win - but you've got to throw the ball to win games. It's puzzling to me that Poles, coming from the Chiefs, is going along such a route.

 

weird thing to say when the shanahan stuff (which is essentially what getsy is running) is all the rage.

 

the extreme run-heavy approach to play-calling last year had more to do with a lack of personnel (WRs, OL) on a tank roster than anything (maybe fields learning the offense too). but yes, they need actual dudes on the OL.

 

Yeah, we're not the only team trending in that direction. I still hate it. I'll feel better if we pick up a tackle somewhere this offseason who isn't a run-block-first guy.

[WrigleyField 22]

I think in time a lot of the running/RB assumptions are gonna age like early baseball analytics.

 

Not that NFL will ever be a 80/90s league because there have been so may rule changes to protect QBs ans promote passing, but it will be okay to run the ball again one day, lol

[jersey cubs fan]

I think in time a lot of the running/RB assumptions are gonna age like early baseball analytics.

 

Not that NFL will ever be a 80/90s league because there have been so may rule changes to protect QBs ans promote passing, but it will be okay to run the ball again one day, lol

I definitely think RBs can be undervalued, especially early in the draft. Guys who would have been top 5 in the past lasting until outside the top ten is a great bargain. High end impact runners are valuable. Plug and play reliable guys are quite useful. But being a run centric offense is just not a good idea.

[minnesotacubsfan]

Running the ball in todays nfl is a lot different than the old school 3yrds and a cloud of dust. That being said, how many elite pass graded OL actually hit the market? I'd bet not many, and that's why we are signing the guys we are signing. Eventually Poles is going to have to draft someone who is. That very well may be at #9

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Drafting an RB high just feels like a luxury.

 

It's at least possible that poles knows what he's doing with the offensive line and expects some of these younger guys to develop. The best offensive lines aren't five top-10 picks. But I'd feel way better with an elite prospect at tackle.

 

But we went through this exact same cycle last year where we thought surely he would address the OL and Wr room early in the draft and instead we went db-db-kr

[jersey cubs fan]

Drafting an RB high just feels like a luxury.

I don’t know why it would feel like that, but luxuries are enjoyable when you possess them. If you have a QB and some WR talent, an elite RB can be a great topping to the skill position group for a nice 5 year stretch.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Drafting an RB high just feels like a luxury.

I don’t know why it would feel like that, but luxuries are enjoyable when you possess them. If you have a QB and some WR talent, an elite RB can be a great topping to the skill position group for a nice 5 year stretch.

 

Because our offensive line sucks and our defensive line might be literally the worst I've ever seen

[minnesotacubsfan]

Drafting an RB high just feels like a luxury.

I don’t know why it would feel like that, but luxuries are enjoyable when you possess them. If you have a QB and some WR talent, an elite RB can be a great topping to the skill position group for a nice 5 year stretch.

Yea, I look at the Rams team when they had gazelles at WR and Faulk. I realize it was a very different offensive scheme, but they were nearly impossible to defend and Faulk was a big component

[jersey cubs fan]

Drafting an RB high just feels like a luxury.

I don’t know why it would feel like that, but luxuries are enjoyable when you possess them. If you have a QB and some WR talent, an elite RB can be a great topping to the skill position group for a nice 5 year stretch.

 

Because our offensive line sucks and our defensive line might be literally the worst I've ever seen

 

That’s what the money (and all the other draft picks) is for.

 

It may not be the right move this season but it’s a perfectly reasonable option to consider.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I don’t know why it would feel like that, but luxuries are enjoyable when you possess them. If you have a QB and some WR talent, an elite RB can be a great topping to the skill position group for a nice 5 year stretch.

 

Because our offensive line sucks and our defensive line might be literally the worst I've ever seen

 

That’s what the money (and all the other draft picks) is for.

 

It may not be the right move this season but it’s a perfectly reasonable option to consider.

 

That's what luxuries are. Things you do in the right situation but not when you have more pressing needs

[UMFan83]

Playmakers vs. offensive line is an interesting question. I have always been big on investing in both trenches, but I've also seen teams like the Bengals have one of the worst graded pass blocking OL's in football the last 2 years and still have a very dynamic offense because they invested heavily in drafting guys like Higgins and Chase and paying guys like Mixon. I suppose its different when you have a QB like Fields who can absolutely be an elite QB but is probably always going to hold the ball longer than most QBs. In that case, pass blocking OL/TE/RB is probably a must.

[WrigleyField 22]

Playmakers vs. offensive line is an interesting question. I have always been big on investing in both trenches, but I've also seen teams like the Bengals have one of the worst graded pass blocking OL's in football the last 2 years and still have a very dynamic offense. I suppose its different when you have a QB like Fields who can absolutely be an elite QB but is probably always going to hold the ball longer than most QBs. In that case, pass blocking OL/TE/RB is probably a must.

Oh, for sure. About the only thing that doesn't have me busting out the pitchforks about the state of the OL right now is that he went and got DJ Moore. That's gonna help the offense a ton.

 

Before they got Moore, I figured no #1 type WR would be available and hitting lines hard was their only real option.

 

So still think they need more, but waiting it out for now.

[jersey cubs fan]

 

Because our offensive line sucks and our defensive line might be literally the worst I've ever seen

 

That’s what the money (and all the other draft picks) is for.

 

It may not be the right move this season but it’s a perfectly reasonable option to consider.

 

That's what luxuries are. Things you do in the right situation but not when you have more pressing needs

hard disagree. I don’t know if the player is worth it, but if he is you make the pick. Waiting to acquire elite players until everything else is right is for cowards

[WrigleyField 22]

 

That’s what the money (and all the other draft picks) is for.

 

It may not be the right move this season but it’s a perfectly reasonable option to consider.

 

That's what luxuries are. Things you do in the right situation but not when you have more pressing needs

hard disagree. I don’t know if the player is worth it, but if he is you make the pick. Waiting to acquire elite players until everything else is right is for cowards

+This so much. People have too much of a tendency to think there is some natural order to team building. Reality is its just always a mess and the only really big mistakes are not letting go of sunk costs quickly enough.

 

But anyways, someone forgot to tell Poles the "that's what the money is for" part. Pretty sure he has all the money under a mattress for safekeeping.

[Bertz]

I don't 100% love DVOA for individual players, but I think it's instructive here. It basically has your elite RBs like Jacobs, McCaffrey, and Chubb as being comparable in value to 3rd tier QBs like Carr, Jones, and Tannehill.

 

So like there's certainly a major disconnect with the value you get from the passing game, but there's a real chunk of value there. I think the baseball equivalent is the value of the closer. Yes it'd be dumb to give a 9 figure contract to a closer or RB, but also if your team is horsefeathers in that area it is going to make itself apparent particularly in tight games.

 

All that said, unless Poles comes down with Orlando Brown I'd hate to draft Robinson. The FO (seemingly) punting on addressing RT means they pretty much have to take one at 9 IMO.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Picking out luxury players you want and ignoring the overall approach to building the roster is exactly what doomed the Pace era.

 

You can always find some random doofus to hand the ball to. Oh no how are we going to replace Forte, oh wait howard is ok. Oh no how are we going to replace howard, oh wait Montgomery is ok. Oh no how are we going to replace Montgomery, oh this Khalil Hebert 6th-round nobody just put up 5.7 ypc. In four years we can all be devastated we are moving on from whatever random 5-8 6th-rounder we pick up this year to hand the ball to.

 

Taking handoffs and running forward is like first-base defense. It would be pretty devastating if you didn't have someone out there who could do it competently, but it's really not hard to find someone who can do it competently.