Are we getting Black Monday II? No, but we got a Black QB!!!

[raw]

This Dalton thing really makes me wish the team had just moved on from Pace and Nagy. They have been dead man walking since then given cap space, draft position, and everything else. Outshined said they're going to trade their 2022 high draft pick, which wouldn't surprise me. Ugh. If you just moved on already you can start the rebuild:

 

Franchise A-Rob and trade him or take the round 3 2022 comp pick

Trade Fuller/Hicks/whoever makes sense to build up late round picks

Sign a bunch of very good players on 1 year deals (due to suppressed FA market), setting yourself up for 2023 comp picks

Draft BPA, knowing that QB is most important position but don't overpay/reach too much

Basically act like Baltimore when it comes to the draft. Easier said than done, of course.

 

Rumor I read yesterday that ARob was waiting to see what the Bears would do at QB and if he didn't like it, he was going to officially hold out and demand a trade. Can't blame him. Good thing for the Bears is the WR market has started slow so if they move quickly, they can possibly find a replacement.

[WrigleyField 22]

This Dalton thing really makes me wish the team had just moved on from Pace and Nagy. They have been dead man walking since then given cap space, draft position, and everything else. Outshined said they're going to trade their 2022 high draft pick, which wouldn't surprise me. Ugh. If you just moved on already you can start the rebuild:

 

Franchise A-Rob and trade him or take the round 3 2022 comp pick

Trade Fuller/Hicks/whoever makes sense to build up late round picks

Sign a bunch of very good players on 1 year deals (due to suppressed FA market), setting yourself up for 2023 comp picks

Draft BPA, knowing that QB is most important position but don't overpay/reach too much

Basically act like Baltimore when it comes to the draft. Easier said than done, of course.

Yea that was my plan. But as long as that isn't the plan, I don't want them just rolling Nick Foles out there, either.

[gflore34]

 

I call BS.

[jersey cubs fan]

 

Yep and with an ownership that's apparently OK with being a laughing stock, guess the money must still be good. Because they sure as horsefeathers don't care about winning on the football field.

 

This is kind of a ridiculous claim. They fired a winning coach because he didn't win enough. They cleaned house on their replacement two years later when it became obvious they'd taken a huge step back. They went for stability in the aftermath then moved on to a new coach from a winning program with the expectation he'd be able to win more and they got immediate results. They took steps back but have reason to believe these guys can figure out the problems. If they don't improve they'll be replaced.

 

The owners obviously care about winning on the football field. They have a wonky leadership situation with the family accountant with too much input but there is nothing in the way they run this team that suggests they don't want to win.

 

Might be a bit rash and an overreaction but, its obvious Pace is terrible, nothing good or productive is going to come of this Dalton signing. By the way what are the reasons to believe these guys can figure out the problems?

 

Pace cleaned up a disastrous roster and made it pretty good. For a team with terrible QB play, they've won a lot of games. I do not think it is obvious he is terrible. I think he's obviously competent with some major shortcomings. But as I mentioned before, the guy doesn't hesitate to move on from mistakes. He made a huge mistake with Mitch, and is now in the process of attempting to find the right draft pick QB with the help of people who actually know about the position (something he didn't have/utilize when selecting Mitch).

 

Dalton is a misuse of assets, which is probably Pace's worst trait but it sure feels like QB is this year's kicker/TE position where he brings in multiple guys to try and find the right guy. It is fairly obvious that the depth chart in 2021 isn't going to be Foles/Dalton/Bray. They are going to take some sort of shot in the draft if they are not able to convince Seattle or Houston to make a move before then. Hell, it could come down to the last second to see if whatever player Seattle or Houston wants is available to them at whatever draft pick the Bears are able to offer this year.

 

It's still possible they do something like trade Foles to Philly where he's still a legend in the process of stockpiling picks to move up in the draft. The QB rooms isn't done being addressed. It sucks right now, but there's almost certainly more to come.

[jersey cubs fan]

 

Step 1: Pay 10-13M for one of the worst QBs in the league to add to your other worse QB in the league.

Step 2: Potentially lose your probowl CB

It's not a terrible idea to significantly reduce your cap allotment intended for a 30 year old corner.

[WrigleyField 22]

 

This is kind of a ridiculous claim. They fired a winning coach because he didn't win enough. They cleaned house on their replacement two years later when it became obvious they'd taken a huge step back. They went for stability in the aftermath then moved on to a new coach from a winning program with the expectation he'd be able to win more and they got immediate results. They took steps back but have reason to believe these guys can figure out the problems. If they don't improve they'll be replaced.

 

The owners obviously care about winning on the football field. They have a wonky leadership situation with the family accountant with too much input but there is nothing in the way they run this team that suggests they don't want to win.

 

Might be a bit rash and an overreaction but, its obvious Pace is terrible, nothing good or productive is going to come of this Dalton signing. By the way what are the reasons to believe these guys can figure out the problems?

 

Pace cleaned up a disastrous roster and made it pretty good. For a team with terrible QB play, they've won a lot of games. I do not think it is obvious he is terrible. I think he's obviously competent with some major shortcomings. But as I mentioned before, the guy doesn't hesitate to move on from mistakes. He made a huge mistake with Mitch, and is now in the process of attempting to find the right draft pick QB with the help of people who actually know about the position (something he didn't have/utilize when selecting Mitch).

 

Dalton is a misuse of assets, which is probably Pace's worst trait but it sure feels like QB is this year's kicker/TE position where he brings in multiple guys to try and find the right guy. It is fairly obvious that the depth chart in 2021 isn't going to be Foles/Dalton/Bray. They are going to take some sort of shot in the draft if they are not able to convince Seattle or Houston to make a move before then. Hell, it could come down to the last second to see if whatever player Seattle or Houston wants is available to them at whatever draft pick the Bears are able to offer this year.

 

It's still possible they do something like trade Foles to Philly where he's still a legend in the process of stockpiling picks to move up in the draft. The QB rooms isn't done being addressed. It sucks right now, but there's almost certainly more to come.

I agree it's a misuse, but also think most fans/bloggers are overstating it right now.

 

They're at the point where Pace either does well enough around the margins that he lasts long enough for cap growth to save his skin or his replacement has a uncomfortable but not unmanageable cap cleanse as they rebuild the roster anyways. A lot of its funny money and deferring the cap is generally good, within reason. The Bears are going more Saints-like than I'd prefer, but there is also kind of a point where you hit a threshold that it doesn't make sense to then ease up on funky cap deferrals when you're already all-in. Pedal to the metal. Shooters gotta shoot.

[WrigleyField 22]

 

Step 1: Pay 10-13M for one of the worst QBs in the league to add to your other worse QB in the league.

Step 2: Potentially lose your probowl CB

It's not a terrible idea to significantly reduce your cap allotment intended for a 30 year old corner.

Can they at least trade him, even if it's not a lot? For the little bit of cap allocation remaining in 2021, he can at least turn into a 2023 comp pick.

[gflore34]

 

This is kind of a ridiculous claim. They fired a winning coach because he didn't win enough. They cleaned house on their replacement two years later when it became obvious they'd taken a huge step back. They went for stability in the aftermath then moved on to a new coach from a winning program with the expectation he'd be able to win more and they got immediate results. They took steps back but have reason to believe these guys can figure out the problems. If they don't improve they'll be replaced.

 

The owners obviously care about winning on the football field. They have a wonky leadership situation with the family accountant with too much input but there is nothing in the way they run this team that suggests they don't want to win.

 

Might be a bit rash and an overreaction but, its obvious Pace is terrible, nothing good or productive is going to come of this Dalton signing. By the way what are the reasons to believe these guys can figure out the problems?

 

Pace cleaned up a disastrous roster and made it pretty good. For a team with terrible QB play, they've won a lot of games. I do not think it is obvious he is terrible. I think he's obviously competent with some major shortcomings. But as I mentioned before, the guy doesn't hesitate to move on from mistakes. He made a huge mistake with Mitch, and is now in the process of attempting to find the right draft pick QB with the help of people who actually know about the position (something he didn't have/utilize when selecting Mitch).

 

Dalton is a misuse of assets, which is probably Pace's worst trait but it sure feels like QB is this year's kicker/TE position where he brings in multiple guys to try and find the right guy. It is fairly obvious that the depth chart in 2021 isn't going to be Foles/Dalton/Bray. They are going to take some sort of shot in the draft if they are not able to convince Seattle or Houston to make a move before then. Hell, it could come down to the last second to see if whatever player Seattle or Houston wants is available to them at whatever draft pick the Bears are able to offer this year.

 

It's still possible they do something like trade Foles to Philly where he's still a legend in the process of stockpiling picks to move up in the draft. The QB rooms isn't done being addressed. It sucks right now, but there's almost certainly more to come.

 

As you said, I'll give him credit for his ability to move on from mistakes that's good a thing however, wouldn't you think an inability to correctly utilize assets is a pretty damning thing for a GM?

 

I think it to be a pretty strong assumption now that there's not going to be a trade for Wilson or Watson, that leaves moving up in the draft.

[Named After Maddux]

 

Pace cleaned up a disastrous roster and made it pretty good. For a team with terrible QB play, they've won a lot of games. I do not think it is obvious he is terrible. I think he's obviously competent with some major shortcomings. But as I mentioned before, the guy doesn't hesitate to move on from mistakes. He made a huge mistake with Mitch, and is now in the process of attempting to find the right draft pick QB with the help of people who actually know about the position (something he didn't have/utilize when selecting Mitch).

 

Dalton is a misuse of assets, which is probably Pace's worst trait but it sure feels like QB is this year's kicker/TE position where he brings in multiple guys to try and find the right guy. It is fairly obvious that the depth chart in 2021 isn't going to be Foles/Dalton/Bray. They are going to take some sort of shot in the draft if they are not able to convince Seattle or Houston to make a move before then. Hell, it could come down to the last second to see if whatever player Seattle or Houston wants is available to them at whatever draft pick the Bears are able to offer this year.

 

It's still possible they do something like trade Foles to Philly where he's still a legend in the process of stockpiling picks to move up in the draft. The QB rooms isn't done being addressed. It sucks right now, but there's almost certainly more to come.

 

I’ve operated under a belief for a few years that Ryan Pace is really excellent at identifying talent, especially in later rounds, but he has a serious blindspot w/ QBs. At some point that makes sense. A lot of his training prior to this position was in New Orleans where they had a Hall of Fame QB entrenched in Brees. That’s not to absolve him. A football QB is the single most important position relative to the game of any major sport. So a blindspot there is pretty massive issue. Unless I hear the Bears separate their decision-making in the draft room so that Pace isn’t the leading voice on QBs, I’m going to be pretty apprehensive going into this draft.

[jersey cubs fan]

They're at the point where Pace either does well enough around the margins that he lasts long enough for cap growth to save his skin or his replacement has a uncomfortable but not unmanageable cap cleanse as they rebuild the roster anyways. A lot of its funny money and deferring the cap is generally good, within reason. The Bears are going more Saints-like than I'd prefer, but there is also kind of a point where you hit a threshold that it doesn't make sense to then ease up on funky cap deferrals when you're already all-in. Pedal to the metal. Shooters gotta shoot.

There is no "uncomfortable" cap cleanse with regime change. It only takes a year for any new management group to make changes necessary to start adding, and it's during the honeymoon phase when you want to gather draft picks anyway. NFL roster turnover at incredibly high rates.

 

I don't get the fretting about playing cap games, unless you're the owner who needs to keep writing out checks for signing bonuses, it makes no difference to your experience as a fan. Pace either makes it work or the next guy will get to do it all over again.

[jersey cubs fan]

 

Step 1: Pay 10-13M for one of the worst QBs in the league to add to your other worse QB in the league.

Step 2: Potentially lose your probowl CB

It's not a terrible idea to significantly reduce your cap allotment intended for a 30 year old corner.

Can they at least trade him, even if it's not a lot? For the little bit of cap allocation remaining in 2021, he can at least turn into a 2023 comp pick.

I doubt they can get much for him. Teams don't generally trade for expensive 30 year olds, they wait for them to be cut.

[jersey cubs fan]

 

Pace cleaned up a disastrous roster and made it pretty good. For a team with terrible QB play, they've won a lot of games. I do not think it is obvious he is terrible. I think he's obviously competent with some major shortcomings. But as I mentioned before, the guy doesn't hesitate to move on from mistakes. He made a huge mistake with Mitch, and is now in the process of attempting to find the right draft pick QB with the help of people who actually know about the position (something he didn't have/utilize when selecting Mitch).

 

Dalton is a misuse of assets, which is probably Pace's worst trait but it sure feels like QB is this year's kicker/TE position where he brings in multiple guys to try and find the right guy. It is fairly obvious that the depth chart in 2021 isn't going to be Foles/Dalton/Bray. They are going to take some sort of shot in the draft if they are not able to convince Seattle or Houston to make a move before then. Hell, it could come down to the last second to see if whatever player Seattle or Houston wants is available to them at whatever draft pick the Bears are able to offer this year.

 

It's still possible they do something like trade Foles to Philly where he's still a legend in the process of stockpiling picks to move up in the draft. The QB rooms isn't done being addressed. It sucks right now, but there's almost certainly more to come.

 

I’ve operated under a belief for a few years that Ryan Pace is really excellent at identifying talent, especially in later rounds, but he has a serious blindspot w/ QBs. At some point that makes sense. A lot of his training prior to this position was in New Orleans where they had a Hall of Fame QB entrenched in Brees. That’s not to absolve him. A football QB is the single most important position relative to the game of any major sport. So a blindspot there is pretty massive issue. Unless I hear the Bears separate their decision-making in the draft room so that Pace isn’t the leading voice on QBs, I’m going to be pretty apprehensive going into this draft.

I think he has final say, I'm pretty much certain that is the case. But there are also QB-focused coaches that have input now, which has a major impact in draft decisions, especially early. Pace didn't have/utilize those voices in the process when Mitch was selected. I've been waiting since the day he was hired for Nagy to have input in the next drafted QB. It appears that is likely to happen this year, so let's do it and see where we end up.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

It's just a little airborne, it's still good, it's still good. Bears fans are gonna need a little more time to process that it's a Dalton/Foles QB battle this year, I see.

 

Pace is doing what Pace always does: Managing his assets poorly and then horsefeathering up the QB situation. Next up is doing *just* well enough in the draft to keep the team from bottoming out so he doesn't get fired. Then repeat it all again next year.

[jersey cubs fan]

It's just a little airborne, it's still good, it's still good. Bears fans are gonna need a little more time to process that it's a Dalton/Foles QB battle this year, I see.

 

Pace is doing what Pace always does: Managing his assets poorly and then horsefeathering up the QB situation. Next up is doing *just* well enough in the draft to keep the team from bottoming out so he doesn't get fired. Then repeat it all again next year.

There is going to be a drafted QB if they do not make a big trade.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

This is a reddit post but I had to put it through a link changer to get it through the swear filter. It's pretty much perfect:

 

https://tinyurl.com/yhg68trd

[Hairyducked Idiot]

It's just a little airborne, it's still good, it's still good. Bears fans are gonna need a little more time to process that it's a Dalton/Foles QB battle this year, I see.

 

Pace is doing what Pace always does: Managing his assets poorly and then horsefeathering up the QB situation. Next up is doing *just* well enough in the draft to keep the team from bottoming out so he doesn't get fired. Then repeat it all again next year.

There is going to be a drafted QB if they do not make a big trade.

 

There will be, but he'll be bench-riding the year behind Dalton and Foles. Or Foles and Dalton. Could go either way, big drama.

[minnesotacubsfan]

 

Step 1: Pay 10-13M for one of the worst QBs in the league to add to your other worse QB in the league.

Step 2: Potentially lose your probowl CB

Considering Seattle just lost Griffin, watch them nab Fuller

 

 

JOKES ON US

[gflore34]

 

Step 1: Pay 10-13M for one of the worst QBs in the league to add to your other worse QB in the league.

Step 2: Potentially lose your probowl CB

Considering Seattle just lost Griffin, watch them nab Fuller

 

 

JOKES ON US

 

Not seeing Fuller as big time loss, he's on the downside of his career.

[jersey cubs fan]

It's just a little airborne, it's still good, it's still good. Bears fans are gonna need a little more time to process that it's a Dalton/Foles QB battle this year, I see.

 

Pace is doing what Pace always does: Managing his assets poorly and then horsefeathering up the QB situation. Next up is doing *just* well enough in the draft to keep the team from bottoming out so he doesn't get fired. Then repeat it all again next year.

There is going to be a drafted QB if they do not make a big trade.

 

There will be, but he'll be bench-riding the year behind Dalton and Foles. Or Foles and Dalton. Could go either way, big drama.

I imagine the guy will definitely start the year on the bench and I'm fine with that. If he stays on the bench it's probably because they're winning some games, if they lose, he's probably in there by week 9 or 10. Then we get to start the evaluation period.

[gflore34]

There is going to be a drafted QB if they do not make a big trade.

 

There will be, but he'll be bench-riding the year behind Dalton and Foles. Or Foles and Dalton. Could go either way, big drama.

I imagine the guy will definitely start the year on the bench and I'm fine with that.

 

If they do not move up were looking at Trask or Mond?

[WrigleyField 22]

There is no "uncomfortable" cap cleanse with regime change. It only takes a year for any new management group to make changes necessary to start adding, and it's during the honeymoon phase when you want to gather draft picks anyway. NFL roster turnover at incredibly high rates.

 

I don't get the fretting about playing cap games, unless you're the owner who needs to keep writing out checks for signing bonuses, it makes no difference to your experience as a fan. Pace either makes it work or the next guy will get to do it all over again.

Uncomfortable like the stomach ache I had when I ate too much baked mostaccoli this weekend. I knew what I was doing and what the result was going to be. But it tasted good at the time. In this scenario Mack/Arob is the baked mostaccoli (not Dalton).

 

Occassionally regimes turnover without any uncomfortableness. Meyer has a clean slate year 1 for the Jags to do whatever he wants, for instance.

 

But yea I have zero fret about the cap games. Even if they end up full Saints like 5 years from now, they're probably at a 2 year cap cleanse max. That's basically the max that a cap cleanse that can exist. And Loomis might also just keep on deferring it like it's the national debt. Until he dies at least and then his successor might just pick right back up.

[minnesotacubsfan]

 

There will be, but he'll be bench-riding the year behind Dalton and Foles. Or Foles and Dalton. Could go either way, big drama.

I imagine the guy will definitely start the year on the bench and I'm fine with that.

 

If they do not move up were looking at Trask or Mond?

Or worse; move up to take Task or Mond

[gflore34]

I imagine the guy will definitely start the year on the bench and I'm fine with that.

 

If they do not move up were looking at Trask or Mond?

Or worse; move up to take Task or Mond

 

If they move up I have to think its going be in a position to draft Fields, Lance or Jones.

[champaignchris]

Why does anyone in the Bears organization think that Nagy is going to do better developing the next QB prospect they bring in when he failed so miserably with the last prospect that he was specifically hired to develop?

 

Unless they can get up high enough to draft Fields, they're likely to end up with a prospect rated lower than Trubisky was when they drafted him.

 

Mitch was probably taken 10 picks too high, but he was still a legitimate top of the first round pick and Nagy either failed to develop him or refused to do so, depending on who you ask.

 

And that's the question that I think a lot of Bears fans want answered... Why does this organization think Pace and Nagy should get another shot at this?

[jersey cubs fan]

Why does anyone in the Bears organization think that Nagy is going to do better developing the next QB prospect they bring in when he failed so miserably with the last prospect that he was specifically hired to develop?

 

Unless they can get up high enough to draft Fields, they're likely to end up with a prospect rated lower than Trubisky was when they drafted him.

 

Mitch was probably taken 10 picks too high, but he was still a legitimate top of the first round pick and Nagy either failed to develop him or refused to do so, depending on who you ask.

 

And that's the question that I think a lot of Bears fans want answered... Why does this organization think Pace and Nagy should get another shot at this?

The "refused to develop him" storyline is idiotic. No reasonable person believes that one. Trubisky sucks. The draft prognosticators rate shitty QBs very high all the time.