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Cubs add Chapman for Torres, et al. imb wishes we paid more

David

By David,
in Chicago Cubs Talk

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Transmogrified Tiger All-Star

Transmogrified Tiger

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Posted
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I just can't get real excited about a reliever, especially when he costs our #1 prospect. Even if nobody else is available right now, Torres could be a huge component of a deal in the offseason to upgrade the rotation. I would feel better about that than a bullpen arm.

 

I'm wondering if there is starting to be some realization that the concept of trading for a young, established, cost-controlled, top-half-of-the-rotation starting pitcher is not viable.

 

This is tangent to your point, but there's still a part of me that wants them to move away from the traditional rotation model and have guys permanently piggy back or otherwise max out for a time or 2 through the order. Chapman for 200 innings is probably a health risk at this point, but he could probably be similarly dominant for 3-5 innings every 4 games or so. Montgomery, Wood, Grimm, Cahill, Edwards, all those converted starters could conceivably be tried in such a role too, in addition to maybe helping current backend starters like Hammel, Lackey, even Hendricks.

davell Chicago Cubs

davell

Old-Timey Member
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Posted

 

 

I don't like "multiple"

 

If we're trading for this fuckstick, I hope we're getting something else in the deal too. So, if we're sending multiple guys, it gives me a bit of hope.

Bryants Disco Ball ACL Cubs

Bryants Disco Ball

Old-Timey Member
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Posted

 

 

I don't like "multiple"

 

If we're trading for this [expletive], I hope we're getting something else in the deal too. So, if we're sending multiple guys, it gives me a bit of hope.

 

Of course, the other guys could be complete horsefeathers. I'm starting to panic that we are going to do this without an extension, but I also am prone to panicking.

Rob Knoxville Smokies

Rob

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In this day and age where information on everything is at our very fingertips, I find it disconcerting that the whisper of an allegation is all it takes before people start weighing in on either side of the line. An individual's popularity and your own personal opinions and morals don't make someone guilty or innocent of an action/crime.

 

None of us were present when Aroldis Chapman went from being an athlete to being an athlete with baggage. How can you be so vehemently against him as a human based on nothing but what other people who you haven't met have said about him? Its terrifying to me that groupthink and mass public opinions (which can vary on a whim and have the capability of being vastly far from the truth) can affect or even decide what kind of reactions and recourse come down on a person.

 

For me, it's simple.

 

I spent months vehemently defending Milton Bradley on this board. I told everybody who would listen about how Jim Hendry was acting like a petulant child and his overreaction was what was killing Bradley's market value. I said we didn't have all the details -- that we couldn't in good conscience judge the man. I even implied that innocent until proven guilty meant that we should continue to support him until cold, hard evidence proved otherwise.

 

Then we saw the evidence.

 

I'm not making that mistake again. If there are rumors and whispers about a player being a [expletive] human being, then I'm not going to root for that player. And I don't want them on the Cubs. Sure, if I found myself on a jury for their trial I'd give them the whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing. But this isn't a courtroom, and it isn't a jury trial. We don't owe that to them as members of the public. We're just here to be entertained and root for our favorite players.

 

Chapman wont ever be one of mine.

 

So you're saying that you didn't want to convict Milton Bradley until the evidence came out? And that was a mistake? That sort of seems responsible, no, i.e. the Duke lacrosse team?

 

What I'm saying is that I don't have to treat my opinions on an entertainment product the same as I do the strict rules of law and order. (For the record, Law & Order as an entertainment product was fantastic.)

 

Chapman may or may not be a turd. But he seems like a turd and some evidence suggest he's likely a turd. That's enough for me to not like him. I'm not going to go around screaming from the rooftops that he should be in jail instead of earning millions of dollars, but the fact of the matter is that he's probably a turd -- and that's going to impact my enjoyment of watching Cubs games.

Bote McBoteface ACL Cubs

Bote McBoteface

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted

 

 

I don't like "multiple"

 

Me either. When I heard Torres+ I was thinking maybe they'd take Clayton Richard off our roster for us, or one A-ball guy nowhere near our top 30. Multiple is sounding scary. We are getting an elite reliever for 4 years on a reasonable contract, though. And somebody who I would feel comfortable giving the ball to with the World Series on the line.

 

Still though, if the + is multiple significant prospects, I would hope that we are also getting another of their relievers.

David GOAT

David

Old-Timey Member
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Posted

Let me preface this that I feel as icky as many of you do about the off field stuff.

 

That said, the idea of bringing Chapman into a 1 run game to finish off the NLCS just hit me and damn that feels nice.

Bote McBoteface ACL Cubs

Bote McBoteface

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted (edited)

 

 

I don't like "multiple"

 

Me either. When I heard Torres+ I was thinking maybe they'd take Clayton Richard off our roster for us, or one A-ball guy nowhere near our top 30. Multiple is sounding scary. We are getting an elite reliever for 4 years on a reasonable contract, though. And somebody who I would feel comfortable giving the ball to against any batter with the World Series on the line.

 

Still though, if the + is multiple significant prospects, I would hope that we are also getting another of their relievers.

Edited by Bote McBoteface
Bryants Disco Ball ACL Cubs

Bryants Disco Ball

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted

 

For me, it's simple.

 

I spent months vehemently defending Milton Bradley on this board. I told everybody who would listen about how Jim Hendry was acting like a petulant child and his overreaction was what was killing Bradley's market value. I said we didn't have all the details -- that we couldn't in good conscience judge the man. I even implied that innocent until proven guilty meant that we should continue to support him until cold, hard evidence proved otherwise.

 

Then we saw the evidence.

 

I'm not making that mistake again. If there are rumors and whispers about a player being a [expletive] human being, then I'm not going to root for that player. And I don't want them on the Cubs. Sure, if I found myself on a jury for their trial I'd give them the whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing. But this isn't a courtroom, and it isn't a jury trial. We don't owe that to them as members of the public. We're just here to be entertained and root for our favorite players.

 

Chapman wont ever be one of mine.

 

So you're saying that you didn't want to convict Milton Bradley until the evidence came out? And that was a mistake? That sort of seems responsible, no, i.e. the Duke lacrosse team?

 

What I'm saying is that I don't have to treat my opinions on an entertainment product the same as I do the strict rules of law and order. (For the record, Law & Order as an entertainment product was fantastic.)

 

Chapman may or may not be a turd. But he seems like a turd and some evidence suggest he's likely a turd. That's enough for me to not like him. I'm not going to go around screaming from the rooftops that he should be in jail instead of earning millions of dollars, but the fact of the matter is that he's probably a turd -- and that's going to impact my enjoyment of watching Cubs games.

 

I can totally respect that. I'll admit I'm probably weird when it comes to sports, because I never go that deep into it when watching my team. Do well, I like you. Suck for a long time, I don't like you. That's probably shitty of me.

Brian MVP

Brian

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
I just can't imagine a scenario where Theo/Jed get steamrolled on a trade, especially something that isn't a 100% need. This deal will make baseball sense when it is all over with, I'm confident in that or nothing will happen.
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