Cubs add Chapman for Torres, et al. imb wishes we paid more

[bcl412]

In this day and age where information on everything is at our very fingertips, I find it disconcerting that the whisper of an allegation is all it takes before people start weighing in on either side of the line. An individual's popularity and your own personal opinions and morals don't make someone guilty or innocent of an action/crime.

 

None of us were present when Aroldis Chapman went from being an athlete to being an athlete with baggage. How can you be so vehemently against him as a human based on nothing but what other people who you haven't met have said about him? Its terrifying to me that groupthink and mass public opinions (which can vary on a whim and have the capability of being vastly far from the truth) can affect or even decide what kind of reactions and recourse come down on a person.

 

Women have gotten pretty [expletive] over when it comes to stuff like this. If he didn't do anything (which would be surprising) then oh well, the guy is a millionaire who plays baseball. He'll be fine. If he did it he still is a millionaire who plays baseball. That's a huge reason why in today's day and age people take one side so vehemently and I personally don't really have a problem with it.

 

Am I reading correctly that you are saying even if a woman makes something up, it's not a big deal for the athlete because either way he's making millions?

 

Not really. I prefer women who are victims to have justice and voice and would be willing to sacrifice an athlete who is still going to live a pretty prosperous life having some negative publicity every once and a while to attain it.

[Bryants Disco Ball]

In this day and age where information on everything is at our very fingertips, I find it disconcerting that the whisper of an allegation is all it takes before people start weighing in on either side of the line. An individual's popularity and your own personal opinions and morals don't make someone guilty or innocent of an action/crime.

 

None of us were present when Aroldis Chapman went from being an athlete to being an athlete with baggage. How can you be so vehemently against him as a human based on nothing but what other people who you haven't met have said about him? Its terrifying to me that groupthink and mass public opinions (which can vary on a whim and have the capability of being vastly far from the truth) can affect or even decide what kind of reactions and recourse come down on a person.

 

For me, it's simple.

 

I spent months vehemently defending Milton Bradley on this board. I told everybody who would listen about how Jim Hendry was acting like a petulant child and his overreaction was what was killing Bradley's market value. I said we didn't have all the details -- that we couldn't in good conscience judge the man. I even implied that innocent until proven guilty meant that we should continue to support him until cold, hard evidence proved otherwise.

 

Then we saw the evidence.

 

I'm not making that mistake again. If there are rumors and whispers about a player being a [expletive] human being, then I'm not going to root for that player. And I don't want them on the Cubs. Sure, if I found myself on a jury for their trial I'd give them the whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing. But this isn't a courtroom, and it isn't a jury trial. We don't owe that to them as members of the public. We're just here to be entertained and root for our favorite players.

 

Chapman wont ever be one of mine.

 

So you're saying that you didn't want to convict Milton Bradley until the evidence came out? And that was a mistake? That sort of seems responsible, no, i.e. the Duke lacrosse team?

[Thrilho]

He is only 28 and is averaging 100 mph on his fastball (according to FG). Could be tough to work him up to it innings wise but Chapman as a playoff starter could be pretty valuable.

 

good lord he isn't going to be a playoff starter

I meant down the road

[bcl412]

If chapman dominates you'll all get over it just like people did w kane

 

Eh, that Blackhawks team always felt tainted to me. I love the rest of the Cubs team but this is gonna feel weird.

 

I'm pretty sure you follow the Hawks pretty closely so pardon me if I'm not buying how much moral heartburn they have caused you

 

It's been expressed that a lot of people root for the jersey over the individual and lots of people had issues with Kane on the team. I don't think you're making the great point you think you are.

[Fro]

Yeah, if there's an extension it's a good trade, particularly if he gets a shot at being a starter (where he could be an ace).

 

Dude has a great arm and he's undervalued being stuck at the closer position. Mainly Reds being stupid.

[Bryants Disco Ball]

 

Women have gotten pretty [expletive] over when it comes to stuff like this. If he didn't do anything (which would be surprising) then oh well, the guy is a millionaire who plays baseball. He'll be fine. If he did it he still is a millionaire who plays baseball. That's a huge reason why in today's day and age people take one side so vehemently and I personally don't really have a problem with it.

 

Am I reading correctly that you are saying even if a woman makes something up, it's not a big deal for the athlete because either way he's making millions?

 

Not really. I prefer women who are victims to have justice and voice and would be willing to sacrifice an athlete who is still going to live a pretty prosperous life having some negative publicity every once and a while to attain it.

 

I'll agree with your first part 100 times out of 100. Will never agree with your second part.

[Gmoney08]

 

Eh, that Blackhawks team always felt tainted to me. I love the rest of the Cubs team but this is gonna feel weird.

 

I'm pretty sure you follow the Hawks pretty closely so pardon me if I'm not buying how much moral heartburn they have caused you

 

It's been expressed that a lot of people root for the jersey over the individual and lots of people had issues with Kane on the team. I don't think you're making the great point you think you are.

 

Kane definitely seemed innocent to me after digging deep into his case.

[bcl412]

 

Am I reading correctly that you are saying even if a woman makes something up, it's not a big deal for the athlete because either way he's making millions?

 

Not really. I prefer women who are victims to have justice and voice and would be willing to sacrifice an athlete who is still going to live a pretty prosperous life having some negative publicity every once and a while to attain it.

 

I'll agree with your first part 100 times out of 100. Will never agree with your second part.

 

In a perfect world it wouldn't work that way but in my eyes there's going to be give and take. That's the way I'd prefer it to be in that situation.

[17 Seconds]

 

I'm pretty sure you follow the Hawks pretty closely so pardon me if I'm not buying how much moral heartburn they have caused you

 

It's been expressed that a lot of people root for the jersey over the individual and lots of people had issues with Kane on the team. I don't think you're making the great point you think you are.

 

Kane definitely seemed innocent to me after digging deep into his case.

 

i think the odds are that he did something bad

[Bryants Disco Ball]

Yeah, if there's an extension it's a good trade, particularly if he gets a shot at being a starter (where he could be an ace).

 

Dude has a great arm and he's undervalued being stuck at the closer position. Mainly Reds being stupid.

 

Again, though, I'm pretty sure it's been Chapman who has said he has no interest in starting.

[David]

I just can't get real excited about a reliever, especially when he costs our #1 prospect. Even if nobody else is available right now, Torres could be a huge component of a deal in the offseason to upgrade the rotation. I would feel better about that than a bullpen arm.

 

not our #1 prospect

[Bryants Disco Ball]

 

Not really. I prefer women who are victims to have justice and voice and would be willing to sacrifice an athlete who is still going to live a pretty prosperous life having some negative publicity every once and a while to attain it.

 

I'll agree with your first part 100 times out of 100. Will never agree with your second part.

 

In a perfect world it wouldn't work that way but in my eyes there's going to be give and take. That's the way I'd prefer it to be in that situation.

 

Gotcha.

[tenderdracula]

At first i thought Torres would be a massive overpay but how important would Chapman be in high leverage post season innings? I'm really hoping for a blockbuster Chapman+extensoin and Eovaldi for Torres plus whatever else they want.

[Bryants Disco Ball]

I just can't get real excited about a reliever, especially when he costs our #1 prospect. Even if nobody else is available right now, Torres could be a huge component of a deal in the offseason to upgrade the rotation. I would feel better about that than a bullpen arm.

 

not our #1 prospect

 

Yeah, ain't nobody taking Torres over Eloy.

[David]

 

I'm pretty sure you follow the Hawks pretty closely so pardon me if I'm not buying how much moral heartburn they have caused you

 

It's been expressed that a lot of people root for the jersey over the individual and lots of people had issues with Kane on the team. I don't think you're making the great point you think you are.

 

Kane definitely seemed innocent to me after digging deep into his case.

 

i think he did something bad, possibly something very bad, and then the victim's bat horsefeathers crazy mother saw that he was probably gonna get away with it and destroyed all of her daughter's credibility with the public.

[Gmoney08]

 

It's been expressed that a lot of people root for the jersey over the individual and lots of people had issues with Kane on the team. I don't think you're making the great point you think you are.

 

Kane definitely seemed innocent to me after digging deep into his case.

 

i think the odds are that he did something bad

 

I disagree. Knowing people that know the girl and her family and following details of the case I am of the belief that her and her family were looking for a payday.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I just can't get real excited about a reliever, especially when he costs our #1 prospect

they're talking Torres, not Eloy

 

ETA: damn you others for stating that already

Edited July 25, 2016 by Ding Dong Johnson

[JeffH]

I just can't get real excited about a reliever, especially when he costs our #1 prospect. Even if nobody else is available right now, Torres could be a huge component of a deal in the offseason to upgrade the rotation. I would feel better about that than a bullpen arm.

 

I'm wondering if there is starting to be some realization that the concept of trading for a young, established, cost-controlled, top-half-of-the-rotation starting pitcher is not viable.

 

Who is going to trade a guy like that for prospects, no matter how good they are?

 

They may have to address starting pitching through free agency and by trading for other teams' not-yet-established starting pitching prospects or for major leaguers that haven't yet broken out (the Arrieta model - maybe Montgomery is one of those).

 

If so, perhaps they have to be open to using their better prospects in a different way.

[Thrilho]

Yeah, if there's an extension it's a good trade, particularly if he gets a shot at being a starter (where he could be an ace).

 

Dude has a great arm and he's undervalued being stuck at the closer position. Mainly Reds being stupid.

 

Again, though, I'm pretty sure it's been Chapman who has said he has no interest in starting.

 

Well if 28 year old Chapman, who is top 5 reliever gets a 4/60 contract while Greinke who is 32 makes 300M on his it seems like an easy conversation. You've got 4 years to show you're a great starting pitcher. Also we've got the Boz. Come make yourself some money.

[treebird]

can i petition that we have a separate thread for people to talk about which people accused of rape were only accused because someone wanted to get paid?

 

i'd like to read about chapman rumors and analysis and this is getting kind of vile.

[PetermanRealityTour]

I'm fine with losing Soler too. Chapman/Rondon makes me feel a lot more comfortable in October than Rondon/Strop

[David]

can i petition that we have a separate thread for people to talk about which people accused of rape were only accused because someone wanted to get paid?

 

i'd like to read about chapman rumors and analysis and this is getting kind of vile.

 

i don't think having a chapman "baseball" thread and a chapman off field issues thread is a bad idea, actually

[Bryants Disco Ball]

The Cubs won't give Torres up without an extension..... We are positive Theo won't do that, right? Right?

[davell]

[minnesotacubsfan]

The Cubs won't give Torres up without an extension..... We are positive Theo won't do that, right? Right?

 

Why would he not? Is he desperate? Because he isn't stupid