Cubs add Chapman for Torres, et al. imb wishes we paid more

[Butterscup]

I don't really value Torres like most do, I think he could be a solid player but there's nothing that screams "star" to me. It would suck giving him up but if Chapman is the final piece to a World Series puzzle, you make that deal.

 

There's no such thing as a final piece to a World Series puzzle.

 

I see Torres as almost entirely as a trade chip. Never pictured him playing for us really. But given his standing, he should be able to get us more than a rental on a (an insanely good one) reliever.

 

If Theo does this without an extension, does that mean he doesn't buy the theory that the playoffs are a total crapshoot or that he doesn't want to assume we are in the playoffs?

 

What would be his motivation?

 

he's leaving after this year and wants that ring.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

his motivation is that Chapman is one of the best relievers to ever play baseball, and our bullpen hasn't exactly been world beaters

[Bryants Disco Ball]

 

There's no such thing as a final piece to a World Series puzzle.

 

I see Torres as almost entirely as a trade chip. Never pictured him playing for us really. But given his standing, he should be able to get us more than a rental on a (an insanely good one) reliever.

 

If Theo does this without an extension, does that mean he doesn't buy the theory that the playoffs are a total crapshoot or that he doesn't want to assume we are in the playoffs?

 

What would be his motivation?

 

Of course he believes it. He's been talking since day one about the only way to win a world series being to make the playoffs consistently.

 

Agreed. So why is he doing this? I can't figure it out.

[Bryants Disco Ball]

his motivation is that Chapman is one of the best relievers to ever play baseball, and our bullpen hasn't exactly been world beaters

 

But if he believes the playoffs are a crapshoot, Chapman raises the chances of winning by like 2 percent. If that.

[Butterscup]

its quiet. it's either about to go down or about to fall apart.

[imb]

yeah, guys, can anyone tell me why theo, GM of what might be the best team in baseball that just happens to have a bullpen weakness, wants to acquire one of hte best relievers in the game?

 

can someone help me out here

[David]

 

If Theo does this without an extension, does that mean he doesn't buy the theory that the playoffs are a total crapshoot or that he doesn't want to assume we are in the playoffs?

 

What would be his motivation?

 

Of course he believes it. He's been talking since day one about the only way to win a world series being to make the playoffs consistently.

 

Agreed. So why is he doing this? I can't figure it out.

 

Well, for one thing, he isn't doing/hasn't done anything yet, so why not wait until he actually makes that trade without the extension before you ask that?

[Gmoney08]

 

If Theo does this without an extension, does that mean he doesn't buy the theory that the playoffs are a total crapshoot or that he doesn't want to assume we are in the playoffs?

 

What would be his motivation?

 

Of course he believes it. He's been talking since day one about the only way to win a world series being to make the playoffs consistently.

 

Agreed. So why is he doing this? I can't figure it out.

 

Why is he improving the team?

 

Chapman as a high leverage fireman inning be damned is extremely valuable, more valuable than plain WAR accounts for. Keeps him away from the Nats & Giants.

 

May be signing him to an extension.

 

May look at him as a project to put in the rotation next year to boost an aging staff with a guy who has at least Ace potential.

 

Also he probably knows the value of Gleyber Torres more than anyone, not that I want Gleyber traded but he doesnt have any elite tools, and is probably a 50/50 shot at best to stay at SS. I would be entirely against the trade if it was trading Eloy.

[minnesotacubsfan]

yeah, guys, can anyone tell me why theo, GM of what might be the best team in baseball that just happens to have a bullpen weakness, wants to acquire one of hte best relievers in the game?

 

can someone help me out here

 

Greed

[Bryants Disco Ball]

 

Of course he believes it. He's been talking since day one about the only way to win a world series being to make the playoffs consistently.

 

Agreed. So why is he doing this? I can't figure it out.

 

Well, for one thing, he isn't doing/hasn't done anything yet, so why not wait until he actually makes that trade without the extension before you ask that?

 

Fair enough.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I don't care much about the cards, but this is still fun:

 

[TruffleShuffle]

I don't really value Torres like most do, I think he could be a solid player but there's nothing that screams "star" to me. It would suck giving him up but if Chapman is the final piece to a World Series puzzle, you make that deal.

 

There's no such thing as a final piece to a World Series puzzle.

 

I see Torres as almost entirely as a trade chip. Never pictured him playing for us really. But given his standing, he should be able to get us more than a rental on a (an insanely good one) reliever.

 

meh, it's a seller's market given how many teams are in contention. plus the cubs' issue is that they now have a number of good to very good relievers (rondon, strop, edwards, montgomery, maybe grimm and wood), so making another marginal upgrade to a solid but not great reliever doesn't really add much value. they were at a point where they needed to either add an impact reliever or not make the bullpen trade at all.

 

i guess we will see in the next few days whether it was an overpay or just a reflection of the market.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

 

If Theo does this without an extension, does that mean he doesn't buy the theory that the playoffs are a total crapshoot or that he doesn't want to assume we are in the playoffs?

 

What would be his motivation?

 

Of course he believes it. He's been talking since day one about the only way to win a world series being to make the playoffs consistently.

 

Agreed. So why is he doing this? I can't figure it out.

 

(I only truly believe some of this, but do think it's a logical sequence)

 

Torres is always going to be trade bait. One because he's blocked and two because his value is at it's peak now. He's a jack of all trades/master of none that is likely to be exposed at higher levels. Doesn't mean he'll never reach MLB, but the ceiling goes way down if he has to move to 2B, or the power never comes(and then the plate discipline erodes).

 

With that in mind, Torres is a bit of a time bomb. You can trade him now, you can trade him in the offseason, but by next trade deadline he could have value a fair bit lower than he does now. That means you can trade him for Chapman, try to find another deal for him now, or trade him in the offseason.

 

Now let's add in scarcity, because if not for an elite reliever then it makes sense for Torres to get traded for a quality SP. Except that trade market is even more bonkers than Chapman's right now, and has been for about 18 months. The Cubs have wisely avoided it and built a quality rotation through trading for reclamations(Arrieta), developing(Hendricks), and the right FA signings, which typically have been in the middle of the market(Feldman, Hammel, Hammel again, Lackey, Lester is the outlier). So if you think that even by selling high on Torres that you're unlikely to find a SP deal to use him in, then the idea of sending him for Chapman becomes a lot more appealing, because the 'only' other option before he starts to lose real value is something like trading for a CF in the offseason. Also they aren't just trading him for Jonny GoodReliever, but one of the most consistently dominant and unique relievers that has ever existed.

[snoodmonger]

yeah, guys, can anyone tell me why theo, GM of what might be the best team in baseball that just happens to have a bullpen weakness, wants to acquire one of hte best relievers in the game?

 

can someone help me out here

 

 

 

you're the best.

[TruffleShuffle]

his motivation is that Chapman is one of the best relievers to ever play baseball, and our bullpen hasn't exactly been world beaters

 

But if he believes the playoffs are a crapshoot, Chapman raises the chances of winning by like 2 percent. If that.

 

using that logic, very good teams should practically never make trades at the deadline for players who will be free agents at the end of the season.

[Bryants Disco Ball]

his motivation is that Chapman is one of the best relievers to ever play baseball, and our bullpen hasn't exactly been world beaters

 

But if he believes the playoffs are a crapshoot, Chapman raises the chances of winning by like 2 percent. If that.

 

using that logic, very good teams should practically never make trades at the deadline for players who will be free agents at the end of the season.

 

Right. I think if a team thinks they are going to be in the playoffs and they believe the playoffs are a crapshoot no matter how many good players they add, that they won't trade their top prospects for any of them.

[David]

his motivation is that Chapman is one of the best relievers to ever play baseball, and our bullpen hasn't exactly been world beaters

 

But if he believes the playoffs are a crapshoot, Chapman raises the chances of winning by like 2 percent. If that.

 

using that logic, very good teams should practically never make trades at the deadline for players who will be free agents at the end of the season.

 

i pretty much agree with that logic as long as they aren't in a remotely tight race. deadline deals are about securing playoff berths. making them for the playoffs themselves is, in reality, pretty silly. i can see it making sense if you're, say, upgrading your #2 starter from like jason hammel to jose fernandez, but that's about it. and most of the time such a team (with jason hammel as their #2) probably needs the help to get in to the playoffs to begin with.

[imb]

 

But if he believes the playoffs are a crapshoot, Chapman raises the chances of winning by like 2 percent. If that.

 

using that logic, very good teams should practically never make trades at the deadline for players who will be free agents at the end of the season.

 

Right. I think if a team thinks they are going to be in the playoffs and they believe the playoffs are a crapshoot no matter how many good players they add, that they won't trade their top prospects for any of them.

 

case by case basis. this would help solve a glaring weakness, this isn't going from castro to russell and expecting it to win you a short series.

[JennieGarthAlgar]

Chapman seems to want to stay in NY, talking about resigning with them if he does get traded. Doesn't seem like he will extend, but we'll see. Edited July 25, 2016 by JennieGarthAlgar

[Post Count Padder]

Meant to post here:

 

[Bryants Disco Ball]

 

using that logic, very good teams should practically never make trades at the deadline for players who will be free agents at the end of the season.

 

Right. I think if a team thinks they are going to be in the playoffs and they believe the playoffs are a crapshoot no matter how many good players they add, that they won't trade their top prospects for any of them.

 

case by case basis. this would help solve a glaring weakness, this isn't going from castro to russell and expecting it to win you a short series.

 

but......If you subscribe to the theory of crapshoot, there aren't case by case basis. If you take each one case by case you don't really believe in the theory.

 

Or am I wrong?

[Aaron_Kennelly]

At least we didn't trade Schwarber, I guess.

[Tim]

 

Right. I think if a team thinks they are going to be in the playoffs and they believe the playoffs are a crapshoot no matter how many good players they add, that they won't trade their top prospects for any of them.

 

case by case basis. this would help solve a glaring weakness, this isn't going from castro to russell and expecting it to win you a short series.

 

but......If you subscribe to the theory of crapshoot, there aren't case by case basis. If you take each one case by case you don't really believe in the theory.

 

Or am I wrong?

They could think that one portion of the game influences the odds more than others and still believe it is a crap shoot overall. Or that improving their odds by some margin in this year's crapshoot weighs more heavily than the future value of whatever prospects they are giving up.

 

There are other variants out there that would allow for both the belief that the playoffs are a crapshoot and that the deal makes sense.

[Bryants Disco Ball]

 

case by case basis. this would help solve a glaring weakness, this isn't going from castro to russell and expecting it to win you a short series.

 

but......If you subscribe to the theory of crapshoot, there aren't case by case basis. If you take each one case by case you don't really believe in the theory.

 

Or am I wrong?

They could think that one portion of the game influences the odds more than others and still believe it is a crap shoot overall. Or that improving their odds by some margin in this year's crapshoot weighs more heavily than the future value of whatever prospects they are giving up.

 

There are other variants out there that would allow for both the belief that the playoffs are a crapshoot and that the deal makes sense.

 

This is what I would have believed last year. But I thought I finally grasped that it's all a crapshoot and it doesn't matter who you add. Like people here have said you could add Chapman, Miller and Jose Fernandez and still have an 80 percent chance of losing.

 

Oh well. I'll admit I'm an idiot. I'll be happy landing Chapman and not worry about it.

[RynoRules]

Meant to post here:

 

 

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/jck.gif