Talk Arrieta here

[UMFan83]

what if kyle was right and he really did just put the slider on ice to save his bullets for the playoffs?

 

i like that it's not totally clear what you find more remarkable: whether jake would put his deadliest pitch on ice for a couple of months or that kyle was right to think that out loud

 

Maybe someone could enlighten me but I don't see a reason why someone would completely stop throwing a pitch at all. ive never heard of a player holding a pitch back for the playoffs. I guess it's possible but it doesn't seem logical for a competitor like Jake to not use an out pitch when he's in a jam.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

To save wear and tear on his arm.

 

Probably a dumb theory though.

[Cubswin11]

what if kyle was right and he really did just put the slider on ice to save his bullets for the playoffs?

 

i like that it's not totally clear what you find more remarkable: whether jake would put his deadliest pitch on ice for a couple of months or that kyle was right to think that out loud

 

Maybe someone could enlighten me but I don't see a reason why someone would completely stop throwing a pitch at all. ive never heard of a player holding a pitch back for the playoffs. I guess it's possible but it doesn't seem logical for a competitor like Jake to not use an out pitch when he's in a jam.

He hasn't stopped throwing it, he's just been throwing it at like 70% effort. If you buy the theory he's saving bullets for the playoffs.

[Bull]

what if kyle was right and he really did just put the slider on ice to save his bullets for the playoffs?

 

i like that it's not totally clear what you find more remarkable: whether jake would put his deadliest pitch on ice for a couple of months or that kyle was right to think that out loud

 

Maybe someone could enlighten me but I don't see a reason why someone would completely stop throwing a pitch at all. ive never heard of a player holding a pitch back for the playoffs. I guess it's possible but it doesn't seem logical for a competitor like Jake to not use an out pitch when he's in a jam.

 

Pitching is bad for your arm. Sliders times 10.

[UMFan83]

 

i like that it's not totally clear what you find more remarkable: whether jake would put his deadliest pitch on ice for a couple of months or that kyle was right to think that out loud

 

Maybe someone could enlighten me but I don't see a reason why someone would completely stop throwing a pitch at all. ive never heard of a player holding a pitch back for the playoffs. I guess it's possible but it doesn't seem logical for a competitor like Jake to not use an out pitch when he's in a jam.

 

Pitching is bad for your arm. Sliders times 10.

 

I get the arm conservation thing being the reason, but if he had the ability to throw that wicked slider, don't you think he would be using it, if only occasionally, as an out pitch to get out of jams? It's been clear since April that the Cubs are going to the playoffs, and I know he wore down in the playoffs last year and wants to correct that. And I also realize he's still throwing a slider just not nearly as frequently and effectively, but there have been plenty of moments Jake has been in jams and I can't see him thinking "that devastating slider would be great to throw in this spot but I don't want to waste my arm for October"

 

But who knows, that's just how I always saw it. I'm not a pitcher and dont know how these things work.

[David]

I'm not disagreeing that it's probably not actually the case that he's intentionally not throwing it (or with less intensity) but that logic is ehhh...think of how many jams Kerry Wood could've gotten out of if he decided to throw the slurve again.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I think a more likely and realistic explanation is that Jake was struggling with his mechanics and the slider(his pitch with the most movement) suffered most of all, so he started shying away from it to ensure he threw as many strikes as possible. If he's using it more and not throwing fewer strikes, that bodes well for him having found something mechanically that might portend a bit more early-2016 Jake than Summer 2016 Jake in the postseason.

[jersey cubs fan]

I get the arm conservation thing being the reason, but if he had the ability to throw that wicked slider, don't you think he would be using it, if only occasionally, as an out pitch to get out of jams? It's been clear since April that the Cubs are going to the playoffs, and I know he wore down in the playoffs last year and wants to correct that. And I also realize he's still throwing a slider just not nearly as frequently and effectively, but there have been plenty of moments Jake has been in jams and I can't see him thinking "that devastating slider would be great to throw in this spot but I don't want to waste my arm for October"

 

But who knows, that's just how I always saw it. I'm not a pitcher and dont know how these things work.

 

On one hand you say you get it but then on the other hand you explain that you don't. If he's saving his arm by not going as hard with the slider because the division has been wrapped up from the start then he's not going to break it out in "big moments" because there are no actual big moments in the regular season. That would be the entire point of the theory.

 

I'm not sure I buy it.

I think it may be more likely that he dialed it back to save his career and his one shot at a real pay day. He may be comfortable dialing it up in 1 or 2 playoff starts and then going back into 2017 with the same approach as 2016 which was to be be very good instead of amazing. His resume of 4 years of very good to historically good will make for a much more compelling negotiating stance than 2+ years of amazing and surgery.

[UMFan83]

 

On one hand you say you get it but then on the other hand you explain that you don't. If he's saving his arm by not going as hard with the slider because the division has been wrapped up from the start then he's not going to break it out in "big moments" because there are no actual big moments in the regular season. That would be the entire point of the theory.

.

 

Let me clarify. I 'get' the reasoning why this is a theory, but I have never heard of a pitcher purposely avoiding throwing his best pitch all season to save it for the postseason. David made a point about Kerry Wood and the slurve, but he *never* used the slurve after his first couple of injuries and that was because throwing that pitch would make it likely he is injured again. Maybe there is a concern about Jake getting injured if he throws the slider at the same frequency and same break as last year, I don't know.

 

You also have to remember Jake wants Kershaw money and as much as he's a team guy and wants to win it all, I am not sure how it benefits him to virtually stop using his best pitch 18 months away from his only chance at big money FA. I think what TT said is probably right (as usual).

[jersey cubs fan]

You also have to remember Jake wants Kershaw money and as much as he's a team guy and wants to win it all, I am not sure how it benefits him to virtually stop using his best pitch 18 months away from his only chance at big money FA.

 

It benefits him by not going under the knife.

[UMFan83]

You also have to remember Jake wants Kershaw money and as much as he's a team guy and wants to win it all, I am not sure how it benefits him to virtually stop using his best pitch 18 months away from his only chance at big money FA.

 

It benefits him by not going under the knife.

 

Is throwing the devastating slider a couple of times a game really going to change his chances of injury that much, especially at age 31? I am actually asking not refuting your point.

 

Also I stopped reading your last post and didn't realize you already brought up Jake's FA put spun into a different perspective than mine, my bad.

[David]

 

On one hand you say you get it but then on the other hand you explain that you don't. If he's saving his arm by not going as hard with the slider because the division has been wrapped up from the start then he's not going to break it out in "big moments" because there are no actual big moments in the regular season. That would be the entire point of the theory.

.

 

Let me clarify. I 'get' the reasoning why this is a theory, but I have never heard of a pitcher purposely avoiding throwing his best pitch all season to save it for the postseason. David made a point about Kerry Wood and the slurve, but he *never* used the slurve after his first couple of injuries and that was because throwing that pitch would make it likely he is injured again. Maybe there is a concern about Jake getting injured if he throws the slider at the same frequency and same break as last year, I don't know.

 

You also have to remember Jake wants Kershaw money and as much as he's a team guy and wants to win it all, I am not sure how it benefits him to virtually stop using his best pitch 18 months away from his only chance at big money FA. I think what TT said is probably right (as usual).

 

That's a concern with any pitcher with the slider.

 

The Cubs had the luxury of having it wrapped up pretty easily and Arrieta has the luxury of having a repertoire that can still be pretty successful without it. I know Jake and Bosio (much like Sale) talked about pitching more to contact before the season, too. Maybe there's some correlation there. I'd guess that it wasn't intentional but I wouldn't be shocked if there was some sort of conscious effort involved in what we've seen with his pitch usage this year.

[David]

You also have to remember Jake wants Kershaw money and as much as he's a team guy and wants to win it all, I am not sure how it benefits him to virtually stop using his best pitch 18 months away from his only chance at big money FA.

 

It benefits him by not going under the knife.

 

Is throwing the devastating slider a couple of times a game really going to change his chances of injury that much, especially at age 31? I am actually asking not refuting your point.

 

Also I stopped reading your last post and didn't realize you already brought up Jake's FA put spun into a different perspective than mine, my bad.

 

Remember the talk of the dangers of slider reliance when Garza came and started throwing it a bunch more (and being much more successful)?

[UMFan83]

 

It benefits him by not going under the knife.

 

Is throwing the devastating slider a couple of times a game really going to change his chances of injury that much, especially at age 31? I am actually asking not refuting your point.

 

Also I stopped reading your last post and didn't realize you already brought up Jake's FA put spun into a different perspective than mine, my bad.

 

Remember the talk of the dangers of slider reliance when Garza came and started throwing it a bunch more (and being much more successful)?

 

To be honest, very very vaguely.

 

Again, my whole thing is I'm not suggesting he uses it at the frequency of last year, just that if that great out pitch is there, why isn't he throwing it 1-3 times a game, and if he does throwing it at a low frequency does that change the chances of injury dramatically? The counterargument I came up with is that perhaps the slider is a feel pitch and in order for it to be most effective he needs to throw it frequently, aka he can't just bring it out a couple times a game and expect to hit his spot with maximum break.

 

But you and jersey have both made good points, I appreciate the input.

[jersey cubs fan]

Again, my whole thing is I'm not suggesting he uses it at the frequency of last year, just that if that great out pitch is there, why isn't he throwing it 1-3 times a game, and if he does throwing it at a low frequency does that change the chances of injury dramatically?

 

My guess is it may be difficult to control and be effective just dialing it up 1-3 times a game, and the increased risk of doing so at all is not worth the incremental gain of using it 1-3 times. Or at least that is how he and his people view the risk.

[mul21]

Again, my whole thing is I'm not suggesting he uses it at the frequency of last year, just that if that great out pitch is there, why isn't he throwing it 1-3 times a game, and if he does throwing it at a low frequency does that change the chances of injury dramatically?

 

My guess is it may be difficult to control and be effective just dialing it up 1-3 times a game, and the increased risk of doing so at all is not worth the incremental gain of using it 1-3 times. Or at least that is how he and his people view the risk.

 

Exactly, it's the reps in side sessions and working on mechanics that makes the pitch consistent. If you're concerned with injury, you're not going to dial it up in side sessions or games throughout the season and perhaps that's been happening more frequently of late to get dialed up for the postseason. Really though, who knows?

[seanimal]

i'm invoking my FULL KYLE rights here and insisting that he put his slider on ice and by the way it's not my job to educate you on the facts and good luck proving me wrong empirically

[minnesotacubsfan]

You're just saying that

[Transmogrified Tiger]

You're just saying that

 

what part of Full Kyle wasn't clear, he put it in all caps

[Hairyducked Idiot]

i'm invoking my FULL KYLE rights here and insisting that he put his slider on ice and by the way it's not my job to educate you on the facts and good luck proving me wrong empirically

 

That is a half Kyle at best until you get the thread to jump 8 pages in an afternoon.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

WB, Jake.

[David]

i like this series of tweets

 

[tweet]

[/tweet]

 

[tweet]

[/tweet]

[David]

[tweet]

[/tweet]

[Ding Dong Johnson]

That was a clumsy story

 

Eta: clumsily written, that is

[mul21]

That was a clumsy story

 

Eta: clumsily written, that is

 

Not shocked. He's a clumsy homer idiot. Grew up in STL, went to Mizzou and was in Denver for a while before being brought back home to replace Miklasz. He's so not even close to objective and an enormous dork who thinks he's much funnier than he is on top of it.