2014 NFL Draft Thread

[rawaction]

He might OD before draft day with all of the cash he gets from his agent.

 

If he doesn't, he's not doing it right.

[Warpticon]

of course i understand the difference between pocket awareness and escapability. there is absolutely a relationship there, though. you cannot be elusive without being aware of what is happening around you. the fact that manziel is so fast and able to make plays with his feet leads some people to believe that he's not good at sidestepping pressure or doesn't do it at all.

 

and lots of people have compared him to favre.

 

Comparing him to Favre in play style makes sense. He's a gambler. Comparing their arm strengths is a joke. He doesn't have nearly the same arm talent.

 

He's not good at sidestepping pressure, and he takes off running even when there is no actual pressure. He's a guy who's a nightmare to block for because you can't trust he'll be where he's supposed to be. Tape bears this out. What works against college defenses won't necessarily work against NFL defenses. People compare him to Russell Wilson, but Wilson was far more advanced at NFL level quarterbacking skills like reading defenses, going through progressions, footwork, and pocket awareness than Manziel is. (he also has a much better arm)

It sounds to me like you watched a lot more of his freshman year than you did his sophomore year. I do not believe his arm compares to Favre, who had a [expletive] cannon, but Johnny's arm strength is definitely underrated by a lot of people IMO. He has a long way to go but he improved a LOT since the end of last season when it comes to reading defenses, going through progressions, footwork, and pocket awareness. It showed this year on the field.

 

Now some people on here who either don't remember the truth or don't care to remember the truth like to infer that I said last year that Manziel would be a #1 overall pick someday. What I actually said was that it was stupid at that time to say he would never have a chance at being a #1 pick. Many people immediately wrote him off a 2nd-3rd round pick at best. I think he's probably a mid 1st round value but at this point I'll be surprised if he lasts much past the top 5 just based on what teams are drafting there. It wouldn't even shock me to see the Texans take him #1 overall though I don't think it will happen nor do I think he deserves to go there. I will be very interested to follow his NFL career and see how he does. He may be a complete bust but he may be a HOF'er. All I know is that if he's healthy I would never bet against him.

 

I watched him with an eye for his NFL prospects a lot more in 2013 than I did in 2012, since he was going to actually be eligible. His pocket awareness is still poor. He just has the escapability and athleticism to get away with it at the college level. He holds on to the ball too long, and he takes off running when there's no actual pressure. When you compare him to other prospects, it's especially obvious. Watch some tape on Bridgewater, or especially Bortles, and tell me Manziel has good pocket awareness. They're a world apart. His footwork is better than it was, but it's still below standard. He frequently throws off his back foot when unnecessary, though that is at least in part to the fact that he is often running around when unnecessary. He's a deeply flawed prospect with some intriguing qualities, not unlike someone like Kaepernick was when he came out, also with a lot of the same concerns (spread offense QB with undetermined ability to go through progressions and read defenses since his system is built on quick reads and hot routes, rarely to never takes snaps under center, issues with footwork and delivery). Manziel doesn't have nearly the physical tools that Kaep does, though, and he was a second rounder who had to sit for a year.

[imb]

If Kaepernick had shredded the SEC for two years, he would have been the no. 1 pick in the draft. He was a 2nd rounder because he played for east popcorn state.

[Warpticon]

Competition level was a factor, of course, but not as much as you seem to think it is.

[Formerly Snayke]

If Kaepernick had shredded the SEC for two years, he would have been the no. 1 pick in the draft. He was a 2nd rounder because he played for east popcorn state.

 

Nevada.

[OleMissCub]

Competition level was a factor, of course, but not as much as you seem to think it is.

 

It's a huge factor. SEC vs. Mountain West.

 

I will repost this from the other thread:

 

 

http://texags.blob.core.windows.net/web/content/stewart/johnny_career.jpg

 

[Warpticon]

Competition level was a factor, of course, but not as much as you seem to think it is.

 

It's a huge factor. SEC vs. Mountain West.

 

I will repost this from the other thread:

 

 

http://texags.blob.core.windows.net/web/content/stewart/johnny_career.jpg

 

I'm pretty sure nobody in an NFL war room on draft day is gonna be whipping out a questionable infographic to make their decision, so I have no idea why you're reposting that. Manziel was a hell of a college football player, which may or may not lead to him being a good NFL football player. If it is, it won't be because he produced more college yards per game than a list of QBs who have mostly done nothing in the NFL. Competition level matters, but we're not talking about some Division III school here. Nobody slept on Kaepernick just because he went to Nevada, just like nobody is going to sleep on Bortles because he goes to UCF, just like nobody is going to sleep on Derek Carr because he goes to Fresno State.

[Old Style]

Wait. So you're telling me Bridgewater & Bortles hang in the pocket longer than Manziel? Next you'll be saying the same thing when comparing Andrew Luck to Russell Wilson.

 

But I definitely agree that Johnny has several flaws that he needs to fix, like any other prospect out there. His footwork got better from 2012 to 2013 but he still needs to improve there. He does throw off the wrong foot too often and that drives me nuts. But that also shows that his arm strength is better than you think if he can get away with that as much as he does.

[Warpticon]

Wait. So you're telling me Bridgewater & Bortles hang in the pocket longer than Manziel? Next you'll be saying the same thing when comparing Andrew Luck to Russell Wilson.

 

But I definitely agree that Johnny has several flaws that he needs to fix, like any other prospect out there. His footwork got better from 2012 to 2013 but he still needs to improve there. He does throw off the wrong foot too often and that drives me nuts. But that also shows that his arm strength is better than you think if he can get away with that as much as he does.

 

You're conflating scrambling ability with pocket presence. They are not the same thing. Also, practical arm strength is less about how far you can throw it (because you're not going to be throwing the ball 50+ yards in the air very frequently anyway, and almost no QB in the league has a real problem with this) and more about how consistently you can deliver a ball with good velocity to all areas of the field and the effort involved in doing so. Manziel's isn't bad, but it isn't anything special. Note: it doesn't have to be special for him to be effective. Peyton Manning may have weakest arm in the league right now, and nobody will mistake him for ineffective. But it does raise the degree of difficulty.

[Guest]

Cedric Ogbuehi returning for his senior year. Second straight year a probably top-20 pick is returning to Texas A&M.

[Old Style]

He hasn't been drafted #1 yet. And best player for the NFL doesn't mean best player for college. And who's to say that Manziel won't be drafted #1 overall when he's actually eligible for the draft?

I'll say he won't be.

He hasn't been drafted #1 yet. And best player for the NFL doesn't mean best player for college. And who's to say that Manziel won't be drafted #1 overall when he's actually eligible for the draft?

 

i think it's safe to say that he won't be

Manziel doesn't project well for the NFL - I'll be surprised if he's a first rounder. As you said, that doesn't mean he isn't a good college player. But Joeckel is better.

He hasn't been drafted #1 yet. And best player for the NFL doesn't mean best player for college. And who's to say that Manziel won't be drafted #1 overall when he's actually eligible for the draft?

 

Everyone anywhere ever?

 

And that's an understatement. The odds are very high that Manziel will get arrested again before being drafted anywhere in the 1st round. Probably first 3 rounds.

All of you guaranteeing Manziel won't get drafted #1 are the same ones who laughed at A&M before the season started. Is he a #1 pick now? Not a chance, but he's not entering the draft now. I'm not guaranteeing it or predicting it, but I'm not going to proclaim that it is not even possible when he does enter the draft. All I know is that I wouldn't bet against this kid.

Hes already a cultural phenomenon which definately impacts the draft. Considering Sumlin had Case Keenum obliterate the major passing records, I dont see why manziel cant be a heisman candidate 2-3 more times. Fanbases will riot when franchises pass on him. He wont go #1 overal but baring injury or a deviation from his likely career path, he will be picked early in the 1rst round. Looking at this years QB stock, he might go top first half of the first round if eligable.

 

Luke joeckel will be a better pro but a&m is not losing their best player. Any college coach would swap a future all-pro tackle for a world class college playmaker with bad pro projections.

 

case keenum wasn't drafted. i don't see the point, here.

Hes short and slight, had a low release and played for a mid-major. Comparison was made as evidence of Sumlin’s style favoring a QB statistically. Manziel is already a huge star and will likely continue to put of massive numbers in the SEC and possibly contend for a national title and another Heisman. This will push up his draft stock. Assuming his production remains somewhat consistent he will be a top ten pick. Christian Ponder was taken 12th overall and is a success story.

So I'm pretty bored at work today and decided to dig up this discussion from last year to see how things have changed over the past year. While I still don't think he will be (or deserves to be) the #1 overall draft pick there are some rumblings out there that the Texans may take Manziel with the first pick in the draft. Most mock drafts have him going top 5 with every one I've seen so far having him no worse than top 10.

 

http://northsidebaseball.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=61653&start=850

[Old Style]

Cedric Ogbuehi returning for his senior year. Second straight year a probably top-20 pick is returning to Texas A&M.

Smart move and I'm very happy with his decision.

[fiver]

Tre Mason just declared. Poop.

[OleMissCub]

Tre Mason just declared. Poop.

 

http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/yes_napoleon_dynamite.gif

[rawaction]

Cedric Ogbuehi returning for his senior year. Second straight year a probably top-20 pick is returning to Texas A&M.

Smart move and I'm very happy with his decision.

 

Probably going to have their 3rd straight LT drafted in the top 5 next year. That's insane.

[Old Style]

Cedric Ogbuehi returning for his senior year. Second straight year a probably top-20 pick is returning to Texas A&M.

Smart move and I'm very happy with his decision.

 

Probably going to have their 3rd straight LT drafted in the top 5 next year. That's insane.

Thanks be to Sleepy Mike Sherman for that.

[sneakypower]

Cedric Ogbuehi returning for his senior year. Second straight year a probably top-20 pick is returning to Texas A&M.

Smart move and I'm very happy with his decision.

 

Probably going to have their 3rd straight LT drafted in the top 5 next year. That's insane.

all in the same recruiting class, too

[UK1679666180]

He hasn't been drafted #1 yet. And best player for the NFL doesn't mean best player for college. And who's to say that Manziel won't be drafted #1 overall when he's actually eligible for the draft?

I'll say he won't be.

He hasn't been drafted #1 yet. And best player for the NFL doesn't mean best player for college. And who's to say that Manziel won't be drafted #1 overall when he's actually eligible for the draft?

 

i think it's safe to say that he won't be

Manziel doesn't project well for the NFL - I'll be surprised if he's a first rounder. As you said, that doesn't mean he isn't a good college player. But Joeckel is better.

He hasn't been drafted #1 yet. And best player for the NFL doesn't mean best player for college. And who's to say that Manziel won't be drafted #1 overall when he's actually eligible for the draft?

 

Everyone anywhere ever?

 

And that's an understatement. The odds are very high that Manziel will get arrested again before being drafted anywhere in the 1st round. Probably first 3 rounds.

All of you guaranteeing Manziel won't get drafted #1 are the same ones who laughed at A&M before the season started. Is he a #1 pick now? Not a chance, but he's not entering the draft now. I'm not guaranteeing it or predicting it, but I'm not going to proclaim that it is not even possible when he does enter the draft. All I know is that I wouldn't bet against this kid.

Hes already a cultural phenomenon which definately impacts the draft. Considering Sumlin had Case Keenum obliterate the major passing records, I dont see why manziel cant be a heisman candidate 2-3 more times. Fanbases will riot when franchises pass on him. He wont go #1 overal but baring injury or a deviation from his likely career path, he will be picked early in the 1rst round. Looking at this years QB stock, he might go top first half of the first round if eligable.

 

Luke joeckel will be a better pro but a&m is not losing their best player. Any college coach would swap a future all-pro tackle for a world class college playmaker with bad pro projections.

 

case keenum wasn't drafted. i don't see the point, here.

Hes short and slight, had a low release and played for a mid-major. Comparison was made as evidence of Sumlin’s style favoring a QB statistically. Manziel is already a huge star and will likely continue to put of massive numbers in the SEC and possibly contend for a national title and another Heisman. This will push up his draft stock. Assuming his production remains somewhat consistent he will be a top ten pick. Christian Ponder was taken 12th overall and is a success story.

So I'm pretty bored at work today and decided to dig up this discussion from last year to see how things have changed over the past year. While I still don't think he will be (or deserves to be) the #1 overall draft pick there are some rumblings out there that the Texans may take Manziel with the first pick in the draft. Most mock drafts have him going top 5 with every one I've seen so far having him no worse than top 10.

 

http://northsidebaseball.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=61653&start=850

 

He's going top 10, he's made very good improvements over last year at this time. Mechanically his arm action is much better and has always had pretty good accuracy. He's work on his arm strength which went from fair to slightly above avg.

 

You can't teach his athletic ability or his instincts when things break down.

 

He's still viewed as weak mentally/extremely immature and his footwork is still subpar.

 

He's going to need to go to an offensive friendly coach with mature leadership. For comedy purposes, I'd love to see him go to #7 and have Lovie as his coach.

[Formerly Snayke]

I want to be paid to write stuff like this:

 

As I've written a million times, for me, the NFL quarterback position is 25 percent talent and 75 percent attitude/charisma/personality/intelligence/confidence.

[Guest]

@JasonLaCanfora: LSU G Trai Turner has declared for the NFL draft via a statement released by his agent, Peter Schaffer

 

The Bears are going to draft him and the Cubs are going to draft Trea Turner.

[Old Style]

[Guest]

I'd do it. I think he's going to be great. Totally changed my mind on him.

[cubbyvirus00]

I dont see Jacksonville or the Raiders passing on a QB..

[sneakypower]

man, Bridgewater to the Vikings and Watkins going top-5 would be a total nightmare scenario

 

i don't expect Watkins to have a huge combine, which should be a good thing

Edited January 15, 2014 by sneakypower

[JonJayCutler]

I'll be pretty upset if the Vikings wind up with Bridgewater. That said, I don't see both the Raiders and Jags passing on a QB.