2014 NFL Draft Thread

[Guest]

Manziel doesn't have Favre's arm.

[Banedon]

What are some other good mock draft sites other than Walterfootball? I really am starting to hate that site.

 

Oh, and I'm not so interested as to pay for anything.

[rawaction]

I see Johnny Manziel as almost a clone of Doug Flutie. He's a good 3 inches taller, but everything he did in college was Doug Flutie to a tee, with more running due to the nature of the spread offense.

 

Russell Wilson was a much better passer, better at reading coverages, etc. than Manziel is at this point, and will likely ever be. Wilson would have been a similar prospect to Andrew Luck if he was 6-2+ instead of 5'11".

[rawaction]

What are some other good mock draft sites other than Walterfootball? I really am starting to hate that site.

 

Oh, and I'm not so interested as to pay for anything.

 

I don't think there are many good mock draft sites. I think those sites are more valuable for their position/overall rankings rather than mocks. But I like: draftek.com, cbssports.com, and draftcountdown.com

[Banedon]

What are some other good mock draft sites other than Walterfootball? I really am starting to hate that site.

 

Oh, and I'm not so interested as to pay for anything.

 

I don't think there are many good mock draft sites. I think those sites are more valuable for their position/overall rankings rather than mocks. But I like: draftek.com, cbssports.com, and draftcountdown.com

 

I just like them because frankly I don't watch college football. So come this time of year, I'm really just learning about a lot of these players, and how high they're expected to go...what team needs are, etc.

 

Walterfootball seems to have a good grip on the players and their value, but does a poor job of evaluating nfl team needs, imo.

[Guest]

Manziel is like a taller Russell Wilson with the arm of Brett Favre. He'll be a gunslinger, no doubt, but he's already got exceptional pocket awareness and that's all you really need to be a decent QB in the league.

 

Manziel, like a lot of college QBs, is good at sensing pressure and getting the heck out of dodge(admittedly, Manziel is better at this than most). That's not the same thing as being able to shift around in the pocket and make throws, broken plays will not be as friendly to him in the NFL, especially since (like Raisin mentions) his arm strength isn't top of the line.

[rawaction]

What are some other good mock draft sites other than Walterfootball? I really am starting to hate that site.

 

Oh, and I'm not so interested as to pay for anything.

 

I don't think there are many good mock draft sites. I think those sites are more valuable for their position/overall rankings rather than mocks. But I like: draftek.com, cbssports.com, and draftcountdown.com

 

I just like them because frankly I don't watch college football. So come this time of year, I'm really just learning about a lot of these players, and how high they're expected to go...what team needs are, etc.

 

Walterfootball seems to have a good grip on the players and their value, but does a poor job of evaluating nfl team needs, imo.

 

A really poor job w/ team needs. But most other sites only do a 1st round mock. Draftek does a full 7 rounds, at least they will within the next couple months (only 3 rounds now, I believe). But their player values are all over the place. Draft countdown usually does 3 rounds, toward the end of draft season.

[Banedon]

What are some other good mock draft sites other than Walterfootball? I really am starting to hate that site.

 

Oh, and I'm not so interested as to pay for anything.

 

I don't think there are many good mock draft sites. I think those sites are more valuable for their position/overall rankings rather than mocks. But I like: draftek.com, cbssports.com, and draftcountdown.com

 

I just like them because frankly I don't watch college football. So come this time of year, I'm really just learning about a lot of these players, and how high they're expected to go...what team needs are, etc.

 

Walterfootball seems to have a good grip on the players and their value, but does a poor job of evaluating nfl team needs, imo.

 

A really poor job w/ team needs. But most other sites only do a 1st round mock. Draftek does a full 7 rounds, at least they will within the next couple months (only 3 rounds now, I believe). But their player values are all over the place. Draft countdown usually does 3 rounds, toward the end of draft season.

 

Thanks.

 

It's funny...Walter, Draftek and Draft Countdown all have the Bears picking in different positions, because of when their mocks were done, but they all have the Bears with Ra'Shede Hageman at the moment.

[Guest]

Manziel doesn't have Favre's arm.

I disagree. I think his arm strength is very underrated.

Edited January 2, 2014 by Stannis

[Guest]

Manziel is like a taller Russell Wilson with the arm of Brett Favre. He'll be a gunslinger, no doubt, but he's already got exceptional pocket awareness and that's all you really need to be a decent QB in the league.

 

Manziel, like a lot of college QBs, is good at sensing pressure and getting the heck out of dodge(admittedly, Manziel is better at this than most). That's not the same thing as being able to shift around in the pocket and make throws, broken plays will not be as friendly to him in the NFL, especially since (like Raisin mentions) his arm strength isn't top of the line.

I don't know how the former skill doesn't make the latter more likely. If he's good at sensing pressure, he'll be good at shifting around in the NFL.

[Formerly Snayke]

Manziel's frame looks similar to Brees's, so as long as he can avoid taking too many hits he should be fine. Like Wilson and to an extent, Romo, if they can get him doing a lot of playaction and rollouts I think he's going to be good. I don't know how strong he is at going through his progressions in the pocket. It's an obvious statement, but that seems like the skill that's going to make or break him.

[Guest]

Manziel is like a taller Russell Wilson with the arm of Brett Favre. He'll be a gunslinger, no doubt, but he's already got exceptional pocket awareness and that's all you really need to be a decent QB in the league.

 

Manziel, like a lot of college QBs, is good at sensing pressure and getting the heck out of dodge(admittedly, Manziel is better at this than most). That's not the same thing as being able to shift around in the pocket and make throws, broken plays will not be as friendly to him in the NFL, especially since (like Raisin mentions) his arm strength isn't top of the line.

I don't know how the former skill doesn't make the latter more likely. If he's good at sensing pressure, he'll be good at shifting around in the NFL.

 

Fleeing pressure in an indeterminate direction is very different than avoiding pressure in a step or two that still leaves you in position to make a good throw in the flow of the play. That's not to say that Manziel can't do it, but being good at the former doesn't really tell us anything about being good at the latter.

[Guest]

It comes down to feeling it. If he can feel it, he can do anything.

[NOLA]

Brett Favre had one of the strongest arms in the history of the NFL, and no way Manziel's arm is like Favre's. A fairer comparison might be a faster Jake Plummer, IMO. Favre got by with his "gunslinger" approach because he could make all the throws and squeeze the ball between defenders. Manziel throws a decent deep ball (into coverage many times) but he hasn't shown me that he can gun the ball to the receiver when he needs to.

[jersey cubs fan]

It comes down to feeling it. If he can feel it, he can do anything.

 

Feeling and fleeing is completely different from feeling and stepping up or to the side. It is not the same.

[Warpticon]

Manziel is like a taller Russell Wilson with the arm of Brett Favre. He'll be a gunslinger, no doubt, but he's already got exceptional pocket awareness and that's all you really need to be a decent QB in the league.

 

This is so far from the truth it's not even funny. Manziel's pocket presence is atrocious, and his arm is average.

[Guest]

Manziel is like a taller Russell Wilson with the arm of Brett Favre. He'll be a gunslinger, no doubt, but he's already got exceptional pocket awareness and that's all you really need to be a decent QB in the league.

 

This is so far from the truth it's not even funny. Manziel's pocket presence is atrocious, and his arm is average.

 

that's just idiotic

[Warpticon]

Manziel is like a taller Russell Wilson with the arm of Brett Favre. He'll be a gunslinger, no doubt, but he's already got exceptional pocket awareness and that's all you really need to be a decent QB in the league.

 

This is so far from the truth it's not even funny. Manziel's pocket presence is atrocious, and his arm is average.

 

that's just idiotic

 

No, you just don't know what you're talking about. Pocket awareness is not the same thing as elusiveness. Being good at running way means you're good at running away, not that you have good pocket awareness. A lot of the pinches Manziel gets credit for evading were created by him. And comparing his arm strength to Favre torpedoes your credibility.

[Guest]

of course i understand the difference between pocket awareness and escapability. there is absolutely a relationship there, though. you cannot be elusive without being aware of what is happening around you. the fact that manziel is so fast and able to make plays with his feet leads some people to believe that he's not good at sidestepping pressure or doesn't do it at all.

 

and lots of people have compared him to favre.

[Warpticon]

of course i understand the difference between pocket awareness and escapability. there is absolutely a relationship there, though. you cannot be elusive without being aware of what is happening around you. the fact that manziel is so fast and able to make plays with his feet leads some people to believe that he's not good at sidestepping pressure or doesn't do it at all.

 

and lots of people have compared him to favre.

 

Comparing him to Favre in play style makes sense. He's a gambler. Comparing their arm strengths is a joke. He doesn't have nearly the same arm talent.

 

He's not good at sidestepping pressure, and he takes off running even when there is no actual pressure. He's a guy who's a nightmare to block for because you can't trust he'll be where he's supposed to be. Tape bears this out. What works against college defenses won't necessarily work against NFL defenses. People compare him to Russell Wilson, but Wilson was far more advanced at NFL level quarterbacking skills like reading defenses, going through progressions, footwork, and pocket awareness than Manziel is. (he also has a much better arm)

[Derwood]

I'd have more confidence in Manziel if he was in an offense that even kind of resembled an NFL system. I'm sick to death of SEC/Big XII gimmicky spread zone read blah blah crap

[Guest]

of course i understand the difference between pocket awareness and escapability. there is absolutely a relationship there, though. you cannot be elusive without being aware of what is happening around you. the fact that manziel is so fast and able to make plays with his feet leads some people to believe that he's not good at sidestepping pressure or doesn't do it at all.

 

and lots of people have compared him to favre.

 

Comparing him to Favre in play style makes sense. He's a gambler. Comparing their arm strengths is a joke. He doesn't have nearly the same arm talent.

 

He's not good at sidestepping pressure, and he takes off running even when there is no actual pressure. He's a guy who's a nightmare to block for because you can't trust he'll be where he's supposed to be. Tape bears this out. What works against college defenses won't necessarily work against NFL defenses. People compare him to Russell Wilson, but Wilson was far more advanced at NFL level quarterbacking skills like reading defenses, going through progressions, footwork, and pocket awareness than Manziel is.

 

i don't think anyone knew how good Wilson was at reading defenses until he became a pro, and i don't think you can make any definitive statements about Manziel's ability to read pro defenses until he's actually doing it. What Manziel does have for sure is the ability to make plays at a level perhaps unseen before as a collegiate athlete, and the ability to make the intermediate and downfield throws both within and outside the pocket.

[SpongeWorthy]

You can't teach #swag

[Derwood]

Allen Robinson declares for the draft

[Mark Priors Calves]

How's Matt Miller's draft stuff on Bleacher Report?