2014 Roster Discussion

[imb]

it's obvious what the guy was talking about, you idiots, quit being so obtuse

[SouthSideRyan]

Ok, can I make fun of him for thinking every player who was on the team in 2008 needed to leave before the team started trying again?

[imb]

yes

[Sammy Sofa]

it's obvious what the guy was talking about, you idiots, quit being so obtuse

 

Yeah, it was a dumbass point to begin with and I was watching him squirm. Go fart out a bird cage and leave us be.

[imb]

all the analogies were pointless and made it kind of hard to follow, but all he was saying was that he figured the team would keep stockpiling prospects and moveable veterans while they waited for opportunities to move Soriano/Zambrano/whatever. but of course it just becomes a big [expletive] of everyone trying to prove who is made the most miserable by the cubs shitty seasons

[Sammy Sofa]

Nothing was hard to follow; he was very clear that he thought rebuilding the team was based on the necessity of shedding the older players. He even posted a list of the players he thought had to go just make sure he was super-dooper clear. The rest didn't happen (this time).

[BeerHere]

This thread is why this board sucks. I come back for good discussion and information now and then but generally, I like the term "obtuse" that imb chose above. It's fits a lot of the posters here and is a good reason to go somewhere else.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

The entire point wasn't that I didn't understand his analogies. It's that his argument was based on nothing but flimsy, homespun analogies that have an emotional appeal but no real weight.

[Guest]

The entire point wasn't that I didn't understand his analogies. It's that his argument was based on nothing but flimsy, homespun analogies that have an emotional appeal but no real weight.

 

Yeah. Both his analogies and the point he was failing to make were crappy.

[imb]

the point was that everyone knew what he was saying, but pretended that it was some crazy nonsense they just couldn't grasp so they could whine about how bad the cubs are some more.

[Sammy Sofa]

Nah. It was just picking on a silly opinion.

[Boris]

We are just a bunch of cranky Cubs fans. It's OK. Thank you so much.

[imb]

Nah. It was just picking on a silly opinion.

 

i know you don't really believe in what you post when you say something like this, that is understated and not filled with a bunch of over the top absurdity

[Hairyducked Idiot]

It was crazy nonsense. That was what we were trying to get across, that our opinion is that his opinion is crazy nonsense.

[Sammy Sofa]

Nah. It was just picking on a silly opinion.

 

i know you don't really believe in what you post when you say something like this, that is understated and not filled with a bunch of over the top absurdity

 

I really don't understand what you're being so defensive about here; for once none of us were going on and and on about the Cubs sucking, needlessly or otherwise. Some of us took issue with his idea that he expected the Cubs to be bad for 2-3 years because they had to clear the slate of the major league players inherited by the FO before they could start moving forward. That's simply a faulty conclusion: the rebuild is taking time because the focus is on rebuilding the farm system. That was going to occur regardless of who was on the major league team and when. He phrased it like they had to bide their time while they got rid of guys like Marmol and Soto and Soriano and Dempster, and that's simply not the case; the rebuild was going to go down largely how it has and when it has regardless of when and if players from the "old team" were traded or released (seeing as the focus has been on drafting and international signings). That he topped that off by also listing players signed by the current FO as part of the "old team" just made it even more ridiculous.

[burnt out cubbie fan]

The last two pages made my brain convulse. Thanks, imb!.

[Guest]

At the risk of this thread becoming a bit of a catch-all, Brett has an interesting note on Rondon's improvement over the course of the season: http://www.bleachernation.com/2013/09/24/rule-5-pick-hector-rondon-is-quickly-becoming-just-hector-rondon/

 

Two images that tell most of the story:

 

http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj631/acecubbie/83c299fc-a26b-47a1-afcd-5f683da13cb2_zps028ccb88.jpg

 

http://i.imgur.com/ODpqoKS.png

[Sammy Sofa]

Very promising.

[Guest]

Aramis Fan strikes again.

[davell]

Reading thru all the "what will we do" articles, it seems like we'll sign a veteran as a back up to Strop. At any rate, I really think we'll be able to piece together a very solid bullpen next year, without having to go outside the organization at all, or at most, for one piece.

[Tangled Up in Plaid]

Who do we use ____ Fan's powers on now? I say Mike Olt.

[bukie]

Who do we use ____ Fan's powers on now? I say Mike Olt.

Aramis Fan.

[BeerHere]

At the risk of this thread becoming a bit of a catch-all, Brett has an interesting note on Rondon's improvement over the course of the season: http://www.bleachernation.com/2013/09/24/rule-5-pick-hector-rondon-is-quickly-becoming-just-hector-rondon/

 

Two images that tell most of the story:

 

http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj631/acecubbie/83c299fc-a26b-47a1-afcd-5f683da13cb2_zps028ccb88.jpg

 

http://i.imgur.com/ODpqoKS.png

Interesting that his K/9 has only slightly increased. SSS but clearly fewer walks and hits were the keys for him in the second half. BABIP has gone down but not too much to make me think it's too small of a sample. Very encouraging either way. I suppose it should be said that this should have been somewhat expected given his lack of IP in the last two years.

[Thed Hoyerstein]

Who do we use ____ Fan's powers on now? I say Mike Olt.

 

The Core? Or Prospect Ranking? Or Whoever Plays the Cardinals in the Playoffs?

[Beer Kaese]

I know how message boards work.

 

To answer the question, does a club need to tear down their existing roster to build a farm system? No, they don't. But the Cubs did not have a core of players to build around while they built the farm. The pitching alone tells the story. Zambrano's career was over and Dempster was on the wrong side of 32, in the final year of his contract. That leaves Garza (whom management knew well from the AL East and determined was not a core piece), Cashner (who had never pitched 112 innings in a season in his pro career) and Shark (a converted reliever). I guess you could count the junk we got for Z but not with the clarity of hind site. We know Maholm could have been signed and that Marshall could be traded for Wood to round out a rotation. On the position side we would have needed to resign Ramirez and sign DeJesus. That would have left a hole at first. Leaving aside Pujols and Fielder, the best option would have been to trade Cashner for Rizzo. So, we have a rotation of Garza, Maholm, Wood, Shark and Junk (he left such an impression I can't remember his name) and a lineup of DeJesus, Castro, Rizzo, Ramirez, Soriano, Colvin, Soto and Barney. Even if that lineup surprised, you'd still need to sign a top flight free agent pitcher if that team is to be taken serious as one that could finish with 81 or more wins. A second option would have been to trade Castro with a package of minor leaguers to get a quality arm, move Barney to short and bring up LeMayhew (sp?) to play second. Personally, I don't see the point of trying to make something like that work.

 

The Cubs have a rabid and loyal base, they are not the White Sox. The fans will return as soon as they smell something' cooking.

 

The advantage to blowing up the team and selling everything that isn't nailed down for anything you can get is that what you get is more players back than you traded away and, even if they are not elite prospects, they are better than most of the players in the system. It's all about competition. Make it as tough as possible to get at bats and innings. I can't say that it will make the elite prospects better, as I doubt it will have a big impact on them, but the second tier players will have to produce to keep their at bats and innings and to keep advancing through the system. It's logical, the more difficult it is to advance the better you must be to advance.

 

I really believe the upward trajectory will begin in 2015. That's not to say the team won't improve it's win total next year, it should. It's that, I believe it will be difficult to watch the 2015 team, know what is a year or two away in the system, see that low payroll and still be pessimistic about the team's future. Of course, I could be wrong. They might enter and win the Matt Schezer sweepstakes after next season.

 

Now, return to building your post totals.