2014 Roster Discussion

[imb]

Highway to the Erik-zone

[Sammy Sofa]

Hey, it's very cool and awesome when imb gets all flustered and sputtery and starts insulting people over a baseball discussion, but not anyone else. Edited September 25, 2013 by Sammy Sofa

[LeftCoastCubFan]

Lock up at the Lincoln Park Zoo?

[imb]

You're right, definitely not mad

[Sammy Sofa]

No, I said I'm REALLY mad.

[Boris]

This was all very, very good.

[Tangled Up in Plaid]

What the [expletive].

[SouthSideRyan]

Wait, so I've missed some other trades beyond those 6 trades of players from the "old team?"

 

Ah, so we're counting players being released or zilches who would have been gone regardless of whether the team was good or not as part of the fire sale. Good to know.

 

72 percent of 2012's cubs roster is no longer on the 40-man. if that doesn't count as a purge to you, well, i dont know what to say.

 

The original point was tear down this team from everyone who's ever played under Jim Hendry and THEN build it up. How do Edwin Jackson, Baker, Gregg, Navarro, Schierholtz, and Villanueva fit into that?

 

Why do I care that JC Boscan, Murphy, Bogusevic, McDonald are on the 40 man?

[SouthSideRyan]

Hey, I guess my concept of a fire sale or whatever the [expletive] an unwinding of the old team is has been completely wrong.

 

undoubtedly

 

I mean, this is the argument?? That apparently somebody thinks the opposing side thought they should have just let Dempster and Garza's contracts expire and walk via FA? The original argument is just an extension of Kaplan-esque [expletive] that they needed to clear out the entire team because of some sort of cancer infesting the uniform of the Cubs.

[SouthSideRyan]

Fangraphs list of Cubs players who got at bats in 2011:

 

Carlos Pena - not re-signed

Geovany Soto - traded during a terrible season

Darwin Barney

Marlon Byrd - traded during a terrible season

Tony Campana - traded because he was terrible

Reed Johnson - traded because he was terrible and about to become a free agent

Alfonso Soriano - traded

Carlos Zambrano - traded because everybody hated him

Bryan LaHair - released because he was terrible

Blake DeWitt - not re-signed because he was terrible

Casey Coleman

Steve Clevenger - traded because he was terrible

Justin Berg - released because he was terrible

Jeff Stevens - released because he was terrible

Marcos Mateo

Andrew Cashner - traded

James Russell

Ramon Ortiz - released because he was terrible

DJ LeMahieu - traded because he was terrible

Jeff Samardzija

Lou Montanez - released because he was terrible

Brad Snyder - released because he was terrible

Welington Castillo

Randy Wells - released because he was terrible

Doug Davis - released because he was terrible

Jeff Baker - traded because he was terrible

Kosuke Fukudome - traded because he was terrible

Rodrigo Lopez - not re-signed because he was terrible

Matt Garza - traded after they couldn't extend him as he was about to become a FA

Koyie Hill - not re-signed because he was terrible

Ryan Dempster - traded as he was about to become a FA

Tyler Colvin - traded because he was terrible

 

Pitched in 2011:

 

Matt Garza - traded

Sean Marshall - traded

Ryan Dempster - traded

Carlos Zambrano - traded

Jeff Samardzija

Carlos Marmol - traded because he was terrible

Doug Davis - not re-signed

Casey Coleman

Kerry Wood - xxx

Marcos Mateo

Andrew Cashner - traded

John Gaub - released because he was terrible

Rafael Dolis

Randy Wells - released

Chris Carpenter - released No, he was traded for Theo

Justin Berg - released

Ramon Ortiz - not re-signed

Jeff Stevens - released / not re-signed

James Russell

Rodrigo Lopez - not re-signed

Scott Maine - released Because he was terrible

John Grabow - not re-signed Because he was terrible

 

 

I mean these were the bold moves that needed to be made before competing? Yes, I agree if we kept a pitching staff of 18 terrible interchangable bullpen arms, it would've been difficult to win many games.

[SouthSideRyan]

My quick count has 23 guys from the Cards active roster in '12 on their current 40 man right now.

[Beer Kaese]

Wait, so I've missed some other trades beyond those 6 trades of players from the "old team?"

 

Ah, so we're counting players being released or zilches who would have been gone regardless of whether the team was good or not as part of the fire sale. Good to know.

 

72 percent of 2012's cubs roster is no longer on the 40-man. if that doesn't count as a purge to you, well, i dont know what to say.

 

The original point was tear down this team from everyone who's ever played under Jim Hendry and THEN build it up. How do Edwin Jackson, Baker, Gregg, Navarro, Schierholtz, and Villanueva fit into that?

 

Why do I care that JC Boscan, Murphy, Bogusevic, McDonald are on the 40 man?

 

Is this a serious post or are you just adding to your post totals and being cheeky with the cult?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Off the top of my head, half the everyday lineup (when healthy) is inherited.

 

I guess the tear-down is still in progress so we can't even start building the house/team yet.

[Beer Kaese]

Fangraphs list of Cubs players who got at bats in 2011:

 

Carlos Pena - not re-signed

Geovany Soto - traded during a terrible season

Darwin Barney

Marlon Byrd - traded during a terrible season

Tony Campana - traded because he was terrible

Reed Johnson - traded because he was terrible and about to become a free agent

Alfonso Soriano - traded

Carlos Zambrano - traded because everybody hated him

Bryan LaHair - released because he was terrible

Blake DeWitt - not re-signed because he was terrible

Casey Coleman

Steve Clevenger - traded because he was terrible

Justin Berg - released because he was terrible

Jeff Stevens - released because he was terrible

Marcos Mateo

Andrew Cashner - traded

James Russell

Ramon Ortiz - released because he was terrible

DJ LeMahieu - traded because he was terrible

Jeff Samardzija

Lou Montanez - released because he was terrible

Brad Snyder - released because he was terrible

Welington Castillo

Randy Wells - released because he was terrible

Doug Davis - released because he was terrible

Jeff Baker - traded because he was terrible

Kosuke Fukudome - traded because he was terrible

Rodrigo Lopez - not re-signed because he was terrible

Matt Garza - traded after they couldn't extend him as he was about to become a FA

Koyie Hill - not re-signed because he was terrible

Ryan Dempster - traded as he was about to become a FA

Tyler Colvin - traded because he was terrible

 

Pitched in 2011:

 

Matt Garza - traded

Sean Marshall - traded

Ryan Dempster - traded

Carlos Zambrano - traded

Jeff Samardzija

Carlos Marmol - traded because he was terrible

Doug Davis - not re-signed

Casey Coleman

Kerry Wood - xxx

Marcos Mateo

Andrew Cashner - traded

John Gaub - released because he was terrible

Rafael Dolis

Randy Wells - released

Chris Carpenter - released No, he was traded for Theo

Justin Berg - released

Ramon Ortiz - not re-signed

Jeff Stevens - released / not re-signed

James Russell

Rodrigo Lopez - not re-signed

Scott Maine - released Because he was terrible

John Grabow - not re-signed Because he was terrible

 

 

I mean these were the bold moves that needed to be made before competing? Yes, I agree if we kept a pitching staff of 18 terrible interchangable bullpen arms, it would've been difficult to win many games.

 

I told my sister in 2010 the best thing the Cubs could do was blow it up. I got what I wanted, how about you?

[davell]

By their thinking right now, I wonder who all is in "the core"? My guess is Starlin, Rizzo, Shark, Castillo, and Wood at the major league level. With Javy, Almora, Soler, Bryant, CJ, and maybe Alcantara in the minors.

[Guest]

I've always understood the need to "tear down" the roster to be a result of the weight of the value being in guys who were post-prime. The 2011 team was terrible and if it was to be truly good in 2012 it needed to rely on guys like Zambrano, Dempster, Ramirez, Soriano, and Byrd in addition to adding an unreasonable amount of high-end talent. Since the farm system was barren, the Cubs needed to not only get top end talent, but to get role players with a better short AND long-term prognosis to avoid chasing their tail for the same marginal wins as the above players left or continued to decline.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I told my sister in 2010 the best thing the Cubs could do was blow it up. I got what I wanted, how about you?

 

Why would you be proud of wanting what has happened to the Cubs in the last three years?

 

In case you haven't noticed, things are not going well.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I've always understood the need to "tear down" the roster to be a result of the weight of the value being in guys who were post-prime. The 2011 team was terrible and if it was to be truly good in 2012 it needed to rely on guys like Zambrano, Dempster, Ramirez, Soriano, and Byrd in addition to adding an unreasonable amount of high-end talent. Since the farm system was barren, the Cubs needed to not only get top end talent, but to get role players with a better short AND long-term prognosis to avoid chasing their tail for the same marginal wins as the above players left or continued to decline.

 

1) The farm system wasn't barren. It wasn't great, but it seems how bad it was is being revisionist-historied further into the depths every year.

 

2) The consensus at the time was that the Cubs were stacked with role players in the minor leagues who could be contributors quickly. It was the major strength of the system.

 

3) Finding cheap, useful players is supposed to be the sort of thing good front offices do. It was something Epstein was very good at in his early years in Boston. They did a bit better job this year, but in 2012 they were really, really terrible at it.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

By their thinking right now, I wonder who all is in "the core"? My guess is Starlin, Rizzo, Shark, Castillo, and Wood at the major league level. With Javy, Almora, Soler, Bryant, CJ, and maybe Alcantara in the minors.

 

Whomever they feel like mentioning at any given time to give the reporters something to write about. I think (hope?) that they don't really believe the whole "core" nonsense is as important as some fans seem to. As recent as January or February, Darwin Barney was referenced as part of the "core" by Hoyer.

[Beer Kaese]

I've always understood the need to "tear down" the roster to be a result of the weight of the value being in guys who were post-prime. The 2011 team was terrible and if it was to be truly good in 2012 it needed to rely on guys like Zambrano, Dempster, Ramirez, Soriano, and Byrd in addition to adding an unreasonable amount of high-end talent. Since the farm system was barren, the Cubs needed to not only get top end talent, but to get role players with a better short AND long-term prognosis to avoid chasing their tail for the same marginal wins as the above players left or continued to decline.

 

The foundation was caving in and the structure was rotten.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

 

The foundation was caving in and the structure was rotten.

 

Baseball teams aren't houses.

 

There are real, physical reasons why you have to tear down a building with a bad foundation (I assume. I am not a contractor) before you rebuild on the site.

 

If you add good baseball players before you remove all the bad ones, all that happens is you win more baseball games. Which is kind of a good thing.

[Beer Kaese]

I told my sister in 2010 the best thing the Cubs could do was blow it up. I got what I wanted, how about you?

 

Why would you be proud of wanting what has happened to the Cubs in the last three years?

 

In case you haven't noticed, things are not going well.

 

I'm sorry you can't see it.

[Cubswin11]

Hey, I guess my concept of a fire sale or whatever the [expletive] an unwinding of the old team is has been completely wrong.

 

undoubtedly

 

http://karmajello.com/postcont/2013/09/tobias-fire.gif

Edited September 25, 2013 by Cubswin11

[Beer Kaese]

 

The foundation was caving in and the structure was rotten.

 

Baseball teams aren't houses.

 

There are real, physical reasons why you have to tear down a building with a bad foundation (I assume. I am not a contractor) before you rebuild on the site.

 

If you add good baseball players before you remove all the bad ones, all that happens is you win more baseball games. Which is kind of a good thing.

 

I go to ProSports from time to time. I don't post there because they are a bunch of idiots.

[davell]

I'm sure Kyle can see we have a good farm system ranking currently. That's literally step one and by far the easiest step to take. Turning that into a strength at the major league level is much more difficult to do. We're in wait and see mode there and will be for another year or two.