2014 Roster Discussion

[Bryants Disco Ball]

They might enter and win the Matt Schezer sweepstakes after next season.

 

They need to set the bar higher than that.

[Sammy Sofa]

Ugh.

 

They didn't need to blow up the team and they didn't actually blow up the team. It's been a staggered process and the team has stunk in that time because too many players have played badly, not because they intentionally tanked or blew it up or whatever other nonsense.

[davell]

"Dad, the really cool thing about this is you can drop payroll forever if you want. The renovations and TV deal will pay for themselves and then some and no matter how bad the team sucks, dumbass fans will show up and get drunk in droves. Now I like the team a whole bunch, daddy, so once all this stuff gets done, can I please, pretty please daddy, have some more money to actually try and win a World Bowl, since you'll be making hundreds of millions by then. Please oh please daddy, we'd be popular and I wouldn't get swirlied anymore. Please daddy, you'd be the best daddy in the whole wide world!"

[Beer Kaese]

See, I am an outsider.

 

Tell me what could have been done, with the benefit of hind site, to compete and build the farm.

 

I'll give you till 3/1/14.

[Beer Kaese]

"Dad, the really cool thing about this is you can drop payroll forever if you want. The renovations and TV deal will pay for themselves and then some and no matter how bad the team sucks, dumbass fans will show up and get drunk in droves. Now I like the team a whole bunch, daddy, so once all this stuff gets done, can I please, pretty please daddy, have some more money to actually try and win a World Bowl, since you'll be making hundreds of millions by then. Please oh please daddy, we'd be popular and I wouldn't get swirlied anymore. Please daddy, you'd be the best daddy in the whole wide world!"

 

This is so far removed from what I posted that you just . . . look stupid.

[Beer Kaese]

Ugh.

 

They didn't need to blow up the team and they didn't actually blow up the team. It's been a staggered process and the team has stunk in that time because too many players have played badly, not because they intentionally tanked or blew it up or whatever other nonsense.

 

They needed to blow up the team, it takes time, the best return is at the trade deadline and . . . that's what they did.

 

I saw some stuff on the net last night about trading Lake while is value is high. In the world I live in, there are no 8 year old general managers.

[davell]

"Dad, the really cool thing about this is you can drop payroll forever if you want. The renovations and TV deal will pay for themselves and then some and no matter how bad the team sucks, dumbass fans will show up and get drunk in droves. Now I like the team a whole bunch, daddy, so once all this stuff gets done, can I please, pretty please daddy, have some more money to actually try and win a World Bowl, since you'll be making hundreds of millions by then. Please oh please daddy, we'd be popular and I wouldn't get swirlied anymore. Please daddy, you'd be the best daddy in the whole wide world!"

 

This is so far removed from what I posted that you just . . . look stupid.

My post was in response to Mojo, not you. In fact, if you look back since people HAVE responded to your initial idea , you'll notice I've said absolutely nothing directed at or to you. You can quietly take the corn cob out of your ass now.

[davell]

See, I am an outsider.

 

Tell me what could have been done, with the benefit of hind site, to compete and build the farm.

 

I'll give you till 3/1/14.

The entirety of our offseason discussions the past two years have been nothing but this. Some wanted a tear down, others wanted to add on to what we had. At this point, everyone appears to know Ricketts hasn't exactly allowed money to be spent, so we're where we're at and have to hope Theo knows what he's doing.(which I certainly do)

[Beer Kaese]

See, I am an outsider.

 

Tell me what could have been done, with the benefit of hind site, to compete and build the farm.

 

I'll give you till 3/1/14.

The entirety of our offseason discussions the past two years have been nothing but this. Some wanted a tear down, others wanted to add on to what we had. At this point, everyone appears to know Ricketts hasn't exactly allowed money to be spent, so we're where we're at and have to hope Theo knows what he's doing.(which I certainly do)

 

We had nothing. And Ricketts is a foil.

[Guest]

See, I am an outsider.

 

Tell me what could have been done, with the benefit of hind site, to compete and build the farm.

 

I'll give you till 3/1/14.

The entirety of our offseason discussions the past two years have been nothing but this. Some wanted a tear down, others wanted to add on to what we had. At this point, everyone appears to know Ricketts hasn't exactly allowed money to be spent, so we're where we're at and have to hope Theo knows what he's doing.(which I certainly do)

 

We had nothing. And Ricketts is a foil.

The Ricketts are the [expletive] owners. They are billionaires and can spend as much as they want. They chose to not spend money on the MLB team. I understand why they are doing what they are doing, but what they are doing is by choice. We've gone round and round on this board debating tactics and strategy regarding the neglect of the MLB team "as a product" and your posts are just another on one side of the debate.

[davell]

Go look at some of Kyle, Goony, and SSR's posts from back then. They laid out solid arguments in putting together teams that could have won 85-90ish wins if things fell right and did it within a 150 mill budget. They had every reason to think Theo and Co could draft well even if they were drafting 15th or lower. If anyone has actually said they expected Theo to work under the restrictions he's had to AND put a playoff team out there already, I've missed it. I was on the side of wanting to rebuild with the idea that this offseason was when we started making major moves. If Ricketts keeps that from happening, he'll catch a ton more [expletive] than he already has, which is starting to add up, as it is.

[Sammy Sofa]

I'm not even arguing what the FO should or shouldn't have done in terms of winning; my point is this discussion always has been that the Cubs never had to blow up an older team, nor could they have really done so since they didn't have much in the way of valuable assets, nor did they ever actually blow up the team.

 

What is their primary way of rebuilding the farm system? It should abundantly clear that that's being done mostly via drafting and international FA signings. Most of the trades of players from the "old team" have been largely incidental or for lesser role players/long shots/bodies. Now, in no way am I saying the Cubs shouldn't have moved these players; it makes all the sense in the world that they move them. My point, again, is that they were never moved as part of a fire sale or a blow up or whatever you want to call it. It's been a prolonged, piecemeal process that's taken two full seasons. That's not a fire sale. The team has been bad because players have underperformed, not because the Cubs were suddenly without older players.

 

Yes, you had obvious big trades like Dempster and Garza, but to point to guys like Soriano and Soto and Marmol as being parts of a fire sale is just nonsensical; they were simply at the end of their Cubs careers (and possibly baseball careers altogether) and the Cubs got bare minimum return for them. In no way was moving them critical for the team to rebuild and move forward. The current FO moving guys they signed isn't part of a blow up of the old team. Trading Cashner wasn't the move of a blow up; that's just a smart trade that a good or bad team would have done when a player like Rizzo was available (especially given his history with the current FO).

Edited September 25, 2013 by Sammy Sofa

[Guest]

I'm not even arguing what the FO should or shouldn't have done in terms of winning; my point is this discussion always has been that the Cubs never had to blow up an older team, nor could they have really done so since they didn't have much valuable assets, nor did they ever actually blow up the team.

 

What is their primary way of rebuilding the farm system? It should abundantly clear that that's being done mostly via drafting and international FA signings. Most of the trades of players from the "old team" have been largely incidental or for lesser role players/long shots/bodies. Now, in no way am I saying the Cubs shouldn't have moved these players; it makes all the sense in the world that they move them. My point, again, is that they were never moved as part of a fire sale or a blow up or whatever you want to call it. It's been a prolonged, piecemeal process that's taken two full seasons. That's not a fire sale. The team has been bad because players have underperformed, not because the Cubs were suddenly without older players.

 

Yes, you had obvious big trades like Dempster and Garza, but to point to guys like Soriano and Soto and Marmol as being parts of a fire sale is just nonsensical; they were simply at the end of their Cubs careers (and possibly baseball careers altogether) and the Cubs got bare minimum return for them. In no way was moving them critical for the team to rebuild and move forward. The current FO moving guys they signed isn't part of a blow up of the old team. Trading Cashner wasn't the move of a blow up; that's just a smart trade that a good or bad team would have done when a player like Rizzo was available (especially given his history with the current FO).

Of the top 15 pitchers in the system, more than half have come through trades.

[Sammy Sofa]

Which mostly speaks to how crappy the system was in regards to pitching prospects.

 

And again, where am I saying that they shouldn't have made these trades? My point is that saying they blew up the team is clearly incorrect, and that the Cubs haven't sucked for two years because of that mythical blow up.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

See, I am an outsider.

 

Tell me what could have been done, with the benefit of hind site, to compete and build the farm.

 

I'll give you till 3/1/14.

 

No.

[imb]

My point is that saying they blew up the team is clearly incorrect

 

lmao

[Sammy Sofa]

My point is that saying they blew up the team is clearly incorrect

 

lmao

 

Please, show me this dramatic blow up of the "old team." Byrd, Soto and Dempster traded in 2012. Soriano, Garza and Marmol traded this year. My God, it's like the post-WS Marlins in here, what with all of the flames and all.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

My point is that saying they blew up the team is clearly incorrect

 

lmao

 

Please, show me this dramatic blow up of the "old team." Byrd, Soto and Dempster traded in 2012. Soriano, Garza and Marmol traded this year. My God, it's like the post-WS Marlins in here, what with all of the flames and all.

 

You also have to factor how they ruined Castro and turned Samardzija into a starter who wears down every year. That's part of the blow-up.

[imb]

My point is that saying they blew up the team is clearly incorrect

 

lmao

 

Please, show me this dramatic blow up of the "old team." Byrd, Soto and Dempster traded in 2012. Soriano, Garza and Marmol traded this year. My God, it's like the post-WS Marlins in here, what with all of the flames and all.

 

out of 53 players baseball reference lists as appearing on a cubs roster during 2012, I count 15 still on the 40-man, including such luminaries as rafael dolis, josh vitters, brett jackson and chris rusin.

[Guest]

What is their primary way of rebuilding the farm system? It should abundantly clear that that's being done mostly via drafting and international FA signings. Most of the trades of players from the "old team" have been largely incidental or for lesser role players/long shots/bodies.

Of the top 15 pitchers in the system, more than half have come through trades.

Which mostly speaks to how crappy the system was in regards to pitching prospects.

 

And again, where am I saying that they shouldn't have made these trades? My point is that saying they blew up the team is clearly incorrect, and that the Cubs haven't sucked for two years because of that mythical blow up.

[imb]

My point is that saying they blew up the team is clearly incorrect

 

lmao

 

Please, show me this dramatic blow up of the "old team." Byrd, Soto and Dempster traded in 2012. Soriano, Garza and Marmol traded this year. My God, it's like the post-WS Marlins in here, what with all of the flames and all.

 

you've already said you don't pay attention to the minor leagues (clearly) and from this thread, it's clear you're not paying attention to the major league team, so ...

 

http://i.imgur.com/MkjEDx3.jpg

 

What is it, would you say, that you do here?

[Sammy Sofa]

Wait, so I've missed some other trades beyond those 6 trades of players from the "old team?"

 

Ah, so we're counting players being released or zilches who would have been gone regardless of whether the team was good or not as part of the fire sale. Good to know.

[Sammy Sofa]

What is their primary way of rebuilding the farm system? It should abundantly clear that that's being done mostly via drafting and international FA signings. Most of the trades of players from the "old team" have been largely incidental or for lesser role players/long shots/bodies.

Of the top 15 pitchers in the system, more than half have come through trades.

Which mostly speaks to how crappy the system was in regards to pitching prospects.

 

And again, where am I saying that they shouldn't have made these trades? My point is that saying they blew up the team is clearly incorrect, and that the Cubs haven't sucked for two years because of that mythical blow up.

 

....

 

I honestly have no idea what point you're trying to make here.

[imb]

Wait, so I've missed some other trades beyond those 6 trades of players from the "old team?"

 

Ah, so we're counting players being released or zilches who would have been gone regardless of whether the team was good or not as part of the fire sale. Good to know.

 

72 percent of 2012's cubs roster is no longer on the 40-man. if that doesn't count as a purge to you, well, i dont know what to say.

[Boris]

http://lifeastv.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/dangelo.jpg

 

mos def