The 2012 Offseason Thread

[Cubswin11]

Seems like a really high chance of a Cubs/Royals trade this offseason. They are "going for it" and could use some position players, and they need a trade partner that's willing to basically pick up all the salary. They supposedly like Barney and DeJesus.

 

Yeah but what's left now? There's no more Myers or Odorizzi so outside of Starling and maybe some of their pen arms, what can they really offer?

 

RHP Yordano Ventura, Starling, OF Jorge Bonafacio and SS Adalberto Mondesi are probably their top 3 prospects now. Not counting Zimmer who can't be traded.

Barney + Dejesus/Soriano and we pay all the salary for Starling and Ventura, then. :D

[Guest]

Seems like a really high chance of a Cubs/Royals trade this offseason. They are "going for it" and could use some position players, and they need a trade partner that's willing to basically pick up all the salary. They supposedly like Barney and DeJesus.

 

I wonder how much they value Soriano's defense v. Gordon's. They also seem like a team that would really like Barney and value Marmol's closer-ness.

 

Barney + Soriano + Marmol + Cash for Gordon + a reliever(Collins/Holland/Herrera/Crow)

[imb]

Jeff Passan: Royals tried to trade Myers for Shields straight up. Rays said no. Weeks later, they arrived at the final six-player deal.

 

thats some gutsy [expletive]

[Tryptamine]

Jeff Passan: Royals tried to trade Myers for Shields straight up. Rays said no. Weeks later, they arrived at the final six-player deal.

 

thats some gutsy [expletive]

 

Friedman has some brass balls. He sniffed out that desperation and Moore paid the price.

[davell]

Wow, Passan with a nugget from hell. Evidently Oakland was offered Myers straight up for Brett Anderson and turned it down. So much for buying low on Anderson for us......

[Clem Fandango]

Maybe he was trying to wait out the desperation and missed his window

[SABR Gamer]

We missed out big time. [expletive] Garza. If he stays healthy, could we have done Garza + Wood for the same package?

[Cubswin11]

We missed out big time. [expletive] Garza. If he stays healthy, could we have done Garza + Wood for the same package?

That's what I was also thinking

[XZero771679666304]

We missed out big time. [expletive] Garza. If he stays healthy, could we have done Garza + Wood for the same package?

 

I don't know. The only explanation for this %$#rape of a trade I can think of is that Moore bought into the meathead view of Shields as a "clutch" pitcher who finishes games, and was starstruck by his 2011 season and overlooked the rest of his career. Garza is at least as good, but I'm not sure that popular perception reflects that.

 

At this time yesterday I'd have said popular perception doesn't matter to executives, but now I'm not so sure, at least in the case of one Dayton Moore.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

We missed out big time. [expletive] Garza. If he stays healthy, could we have done Garza + Wood for the same package?

 

Only if Garza was a little cheaper, had an awesome 2012, and had an extra year of control. And if Wood was coming off an 11 K/9 season in the pen.

[XZero771679666304]

We missed out big time. [expletive] Garza. If he stays healthy, could we have done Garza + Wood for the same package?

 

Only if Garza was a little cheaper, had an awesome 2012, and had an extra year of control. And if Wood was coming off an 11 K/9 season in the pen.

 

Shields finished the year up strong, but he was a bit schizo for my taste in 2012. I'd take him, but not for anywhere near the price the Royals paid.

 

But the extra year of control is big. I've maintained that if the Cubs were going to trade Garza, the time was last offseason, not the 2012 deadline. He was coming off his best season and still had a full second year of control. I think that if Theo and Jed intended to deal him for maximum return, they really screwed the pooch, and the injury just compounded it.

[Sammys Boombox]

Barney + Soriano + DeJesus for Francoeur and the Lexington Legends. Pay the salaries for all four big leaguers involved in the trade.

 

I really don't care which minor league team they give us, but the hats are awesome.

 

http://www.theclinkroom.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/WordPress-Lexington-LatestDrops-02.png

[Have a seat, Neifi]

keithlaw

‏@keithlaw

One final thought before I sign off: Talked to a bunch of scouts/FO folks tonight. Every last one of them said the Rays came out way ahead.

[rocket]

Theo and co are much better than Hendry, but man it would have been sweet to get Friedman

[Elwood]

The Royals believed they were one starter away from contention, and while it's easy to sneer at that – and maybe rightful – they justify the means because their vision of the end is so bright. Both on paper and in spreadsheet this trade is wrong, and yet the Royals were tired of sitting around and watching others make bold moves.

 

Jeff Passan defends Kansas City: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/mlb--royals-bet-big-james-shields-blockbuster-trade-with-rays-092108961.html

[KingCubsFan]

We missed out big time. [expletive] Garza. If he stays healthy, could we have done Garza + Wood for the same package?

 

I don't know. The only explanation for this %$#rape of a trade I can think of is that Moore bought into the meathead view of Shields as a "clutch" pitcher who finishes games, and was starstruck by his 2011 season and overlooked the rest of his career. Garza is at least as good, but I'm not sure that popular perception reflects that.

 

At this time yesterday I'd have said popular perception doesn't matter to executives, but now I'm not so sure, at least in the case of one Dayton Moore.

Shields is much better than Garza. Whether he is an ace is questionable at best, but he's on a different level from Garza.

[sneakypower]

i think we can lock the David Price thread now

[illiniguy]

I hate Dayton Moore. You trade Wil Myers and Jake Odorizzi and you better come back with David Price. Oh and they threw in a lefty that can touch 97. Unreal.

[XZero771679666304]

We missed out big time. [expletive] Garza. If he stays healthy, could we have done Garza + Wood for the same package?

 

I don't know. The only explanation for this %$#rape of a trade I can think of is that Moore bought into the meathead view of Shields as a "clutch" pitcher who finishes games, and was starstruck by his 2011 season and overlooked the rest of his career. Garza is at least as good, but I'm not sure that popular perception reflects that.

 

At this time yesterday I'd have said popular perception doesn't matter to executives, but now I'm not so sure, at least in the case of one Dayton Moore.

Shields is much better than Garza. Whether he is an ace is questionable at best, but he's on a different level from Garza.

 

He's good, but not the type of good you pay what the Royals paid for.

 

Garza and Shields are very comparable pitchers. They've posted similar numbers (k/9, bb/9, hr/9, FIP, xFIP, ERA) throughout their careers. The only thing you can point to is the glut of CG Shields accrued in 2011. He most certainly is not "on a different level".

[jersey cubs fan]

We missed out big time. [expletive] Garza. If he stays healthy, could we have done Garza + Wood for the same package?

 

I don't know. The only explanation for this %$#rape of a trade I can think of is that Moore bought into the meathead view of Shields as a "clutch" pitcher who finishes games, and was starstruck by his 2011 season and overlooked the rest of his career. Garza is at least as good, but I'm not sure that popular perception reflects that.

 

At this time yesterday I'd have said popular perception doesn't matter to executives, but now I'm not so sure, at least in the case of one Dayton Moore.

Shields is much better than Garza. Whether he is an ace is questionable at best, but he's on a different level from Garza.

 

He's good, but not the type of good you pay what the Royals paid for.

 

Garza and Shields are very comparable pitchers. They've posted similar numbers (k/9, bb/9, hr/9, FIP, xFIP, ERA) throughout their careers. The only thing you can point to is the glut of CG Shields accrued in 2011. He most certainly is not "on a different level".

 

Shields has been consistently better than Garza, and is a pretty clear cut better asset than Garza. But I do agree that King overstated things with the "on a different level" comment.

[XZero771679666304]

We missed out big time. [expletive] Garza. If he stays healthy, could we have done Garza + Wood for the same package?

 

I don't know. The only explanation for this %$#rape of a trade I can think of is that Moore bought into the meathead view of Shields as a "clutch" pitcher who finishes games, and was starstruck by his 2011 season and overlooked the rest of his career. Garza is at least as good, but I'm not sure that popular perception reflects that.

 

At this time yesterday I'd have said popular perception doesn't matter to executives, but now I'm not so sure, at least in the case of one Dayton Moore.

Shields is much better than Garza. Whether he is an ace is questionable at best, but he's on a different level from Garza.

 

He's good, but not the type of good you pay what the Royals paid for.

 

Garza and Shields are very comparable pitchers. They've posted similar numbers (k/9, bb/9, hr/9, FIP, xFIP, ERA) throughout their careers. The only thing you can point to is the glut of CG Shields accrued in 2011. He most certainly is not "on a different level".

 

Shields has been consistently better than Garza, and is a pretty clear cut better asset than Garza. But I do agree that King overstated things with the "on a different level" comment.

 

That I can agree with, especially when you factor in health. Their actual performance has been pretty similar. But Garza sure looked a lot more attractive at this time a year ago, when knowing what the plan was, he should have been traded.

[KingCubsFan]

We missed out big time. [expletive] Garza. If he stays healthy, could we have done Garza + Wood for the same package?

 

I don't know. The only explanation for this %$#rape of a trade I can think of is that Moore bought into the meathead view of Shields as a "clutch" pitcher who finishes games, and was starstruck by his 2011 season and overlooked the rest of his career. Garza is at least as good, but I'm not sure that popular perception reflects that.

 

At this time yesterday I'd have said popular perception doesn't matter to executives, but now I'm not so sure, at least in the case of one Dayton Moore.

Shields is much better than Garza. Whether he is an ace is questionable at best, but he's on a different level from Garza.

 

He's good, but not the type of good you pay what the Royals paid for.

 

Garza and Shields are very comparable pitchers. They've posted similar numbers (k/9, bb/9, hr/9, FIP, xFIP, ERA) throughout their careers. The only thing you can point to is the glut of CG Shields accrued in 2011. He most certainly is not "on a different level".

Shields is better than Garza in all of those categories, except preventing homeruns. And the consistency in innings can't be discounted. Having a guy that's pitched over 200 innings since 2007 is extremely valuable. In no way am I defending this trade, but Shields really is a different asset than Garza. I don't think you can look at this trade and say "maybe we could have got something comparable for Garza."

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Royals seem to be finding a few defenders out there today. Seems like there's a bit of a consensus that Myers isn't viewed as highly inside the industry as he is in the punditry.

[XZero771679666304]

We missed out big time. [expletive] Garza. If he stays healthy, could we have done Garza + Wood for the same package?

 

I don't know. The only explanation for this %$#rape of a trade I can think of is that Moore bought into the meathead view of Shields as a "clutch" pitcher who finishes games, and was starstruck by his 2011 season and overlooked the rest of his career. Garza is at least as good, but I'm not sure that popular perception reflects that.

 

At this time yesterday I'd have said popular perception doesn't matter to executives, but now I'm not so sure, at least in the case of one Dayton Moore.

Shields is much better than Garza. Whether he is an ace is questionable at best, but he's on a different level from Garza.

 

He's good, but not the type of good you pay what the Royals paid for.

 

Garza and Shields are very comparable pitchers. They've posted similar numbers (k/9, bb/9, hr/9, FIP, xFIP, ERA) throughout their careers. The only thing you can point to is the glut of CG Shields accrued in 2011. He most certainly is not "on a different level".

Shields is better than Garza in all of those categories, except preventing homeruns.

 

Barely. I can accept that Shields is a better asset, but he's not on a different level.

 

And I can't wrap my head around Shields bringing back what he did, so I can't imagine Garza bringing a similar return, either.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Garza did for one season what Shields has done for the last two, and Garza is coming off elbow injuries and not for the first time.