Re: What would you deal Garza for?

[Guest]

Oh man, Peter Bourjos as the centerpiece for Matt Garza could not be more of a Jim Hendry trade.

 

doesn't have to be the centerpiece, but you have a ml ready player, and a couple of AA pitchers and that could be a solid deal.

of course you thought trumbo for marmol was awful.

 

He really should've seen Trumbo going from .254/.291/.477 with 29 HR in 149 games to .307/.359/.611 with 27 HR in 90 games.

[davell]

I dunno, I really get the feeling Garza won't be traded.

If he pitches Monday and pitches decently, I think he's gone. Otherwise, I agree.

[SouthSideRyan]

Oh man, Peter Bourjos as the centerpiece for Matt Garza could not be more of a Jim Hendry trade.

 

doesn't have to be the centerpiece, but you have a ml ready player, and a couple of AA pitchers and that could be a solid deal.

of course you thought trumbo for marmol was awful.

 

He really should've seen Trumbo going from .254/.291/.477 with 29 HR in 149 games to .307/.359/.611 with 27 HR in 90 games.

 

He was steadily improving year by year from 192-768

[erik316wttn]

I dunno, I really get the feeling Garza won't be traded.

If he pitches Monday and pitches decently, I think he's gone. Otherwise, I agree.

 

I honestly don't know why everyone is so gung-ho on trading him. He'd be a good piece to hang on to, lock up long-term and build around. I'm not opposed to trading him for the right price, but thankfully we have a competent front office that won't trade a guy just for the sake of trading a guy, or trade a guy at his lowest value.

[neely crenshaw]

Oh man, Peter Bourjos as the centerpiece for Matt Garza could not be more of a Jim Hendry trade.

 

doesn't have to be the centerpiece, but you have a ml ready player, and a couple of AA pitchers and that could be a solid deal.

of course you thought trumbo for marmol was awful.

 

He really should've seen Trumbo going from .254/.291/.477 with 29 HR in 149 games to .307/.359/.611 with 27 HR in 90 games.

 

actually yes he should have. his career stats show that his 2nd year at every level show marked improvement to 280-290 ba, 330-250 obp and 800-900 ops. and when you are selling off an older. fading closer that you don't really need because of price, and stature of your team, getting a power hitting 26 year old in his 2nd full season wouldn't be a bad haul. it was thrown out there, because they had just signed pujols, who plays trumbo's primary position. they had trouble at closer and it may have been a time to dump salary. oh, and he has played 3rd, left and right this season...but of course we are really solid there.

even with last years stat line, we have 2 regulars (lahair and soriano) with a higher ops (.768) than trumbo had last year, and only 1 returner from last year(castro .773) had a better one in 2011.

also if you were sure that Lahair would have a .830 ops this season, then you should have a job in an MLB front office.

[Guest]

Oh man, Peter Bourjos as the centerpiece for Matt Garza could not be more of a Jim Hendry trade.

 

doesn't have to be the centerpiece, but you have a ml ready player, and a couple of AA pitchers and that could be a solid deal.

of course you thought trumbo for marmol was awful.

 

He really should've seen Trumbo going from .254/.291/.477 with 29 HR in 149 games to .307/.359/.611 with 27 HR in 90 games.

 

actually yes he should have. his career stats show that his 2nd year at every level show marked improvement to 280-290 ba, 330-250 obp and 800-900 ops. and when you are selling off an older. fading closer that you don't really need because of price, and stature of your team, getting a power hitting 26 year old in his 2nd full season wouldn't be a bad haul. it was thrown out there, because they had just signed pujols, who plays trumbo's primary position. they had trouble at closer and it may have been a time to dump salary. oh, and he has played 3rd, left and right this season...but of course we are really solid there.

even with last years stat line, we have 2 regulars (lahair and soriano) with a higher ops (.768) than trumbo had last year, and only 1 returner from last year(castro .773) had a better one in 2011.

also if you were sure that Lahair would have a .830 ops this season, then you should have a job in an MLB front office.

 

so should you if you could have projected this from trumbo.

[Bryants Disco Ball]

Oh man, Peter Bourjos as the centerpiece for Matt Garza could not be more of a Jim Hendry trade.

 

he is a 270-300 ba guy, a 350-260 obp, and high 700's to low 800's ops guy through out his career. faster than heck, good defender....what's the down side?

 

He might have been that throughout his minor league career, but in parts of three seasons, he is sporting a .248 batting average and a .300 OBP. He has a way to go to get to the numbers you are saying he's already at.

[neely crenshaw]

no if i could have then i should have a front office job BUT

his history says improvement was very,very plausible and even without it his stats were better than anyone we had certainly could have filled a major league spot on a team lacking major league players AND we could have dropped marmol's salary. on a team that wasn't going to win much a closer, even at his best, is a luxury item. I simply threw the idea out there when they signed pujols because of their closer trouble and trumbo not having a sure position. I am not sure if we had even gotten rizzo yet. It seemed at the time as a decent possiblity but the idea was met with "trumbo blows" which of course he didn't and certainly doesn't.

 

now back to Garza, it sure seems like it may be a better idea to wait and trade him in the offseason, their are simply too many names out there to get a great return on.

The rays turned down bourjos for shields straight up but are looking at adding conger to the mix. if they that is close, then I am not sure we could get more than that or 1 AA arm.

With our lack of young arms, it seems to be a necessity to get pitching for pitching.

[neely crenshaw]

Oh man, Peter Bourjos as the centerpiece for Matt Garza could not be more of a Jim Hendry trade.

 

he is a 270-300 ba guy, a 350-260 obp, and high 700's to low 800's ops guy through out his career. faster than heck, good defender....what's the down side?

 

He might have been that throughout his minor league career, but in parts of three seasons, he is sporting a .248 batting average and a .300 OBP. He has a way to go to get to the numbers you are saying he's already at.

 

being sneaky with numbers...he played 8 games in 2010, had the mentioned stat line 2011, which again is better than all but 2 of our guys this year.

at his stat line for last year, he would still be a good addition...

if you knew anything about him other than reading his mlb stat line, it would be no stretch that he would hit 270, with 30 hrs, have a 320-330 obp and push 850 ops. he has never gone down in stats his 2nd season at a level. never is a pretty good baseline for a bet

now did i think he would go 300, slug close to 700 and hit 40+ hrs...no way.

but i guess even without this year, the idea of dropping marmol's salary and getting an actual player certainly would have made as much sense as trading z for volstad, and paying 15mil. to me it would have been well worth the gamble. Now if you want to argue, the angels would never have done it, then you may be right but the argument that trumbo would have been the problem in that deal is crazy.

[Bryants Disco Ball]

Oh man, Peter Bourjos as the centerpiece for Matt Garza could not be more of a Jim Hendry trade.

 

he is a 270-300 ba guy, a 350-260 obp, and high 700's to low 800's ops guy through out his career. faster than heck, good defender....what's the down side?

 

He might have been that throughout his minor league career, but in parts of three seasons, he is sporting a .248 batting average and a .300 OBP. He has a way to go to get to the numbers you are saying he's already at.

 

being sneaky with numbers...he played 8 games in 2010, had the mentioned stat line 2011, which again is better than all but 2 of our guys this year.

at his stat line for last year, he would still be a good addition...

if you knew anything about him other than reading his mlb stat line, it would be no stretch that he would hit 270, with 30 hrs, have a 320-330 obp and push 850 ops. he has never gone down in stats his 2nd season at a level. never is a pretty good baseline for a bet

now did i think he would go 300, slug close to 700 and hit 40+ hrs...no way.

but i guess even without this year, the idea of dropping marmol's salary and getting an actual player certainly would have made as much sense as trading z for volstad, and paying 15mil. to me it would have been well worth the gamble. Now if you want to argue, the angels would never have done it, then you may be right but the argument that trumbo would have been the problem in that deal is crazy.

 

I'll admit, I'm getting confused. Are we talking about Peter Bourjos of the Angels?

 

He played in 51 games in 2010, not eight. He did not have the mentioned stat line in 2011, as his OBP was .327 and not .350 to .360.

 

In 273 games and 835 at-bats, he has a .249 average and a .301 OBP. I don't know him enough to say that he couldn't hit your projections, but I do know enough to say that there is at least some mounting evidence over three seasons that he won't.

[Bryants Disco Ball]

Wait. I just read your post again. Did you say it's not a stretch to say he will hit 30 home runs?

 

I'm just.....am I missing something here? I'm actually getting more worried about me than you.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

He played in 51 games in 2010, not eight. He did not have the mentioned stat line in 2011, as his OBP was .327 and not .350 to .360.

Well, he did say "330-250 obp" and "350-260 obp", and 327 falls in both of those ranges.

[javy knows my name]

Can we, I dunno...discourage illiterates from posting on the board?

[C.C.]

Can we, I dunno...discourage illiterates from posting on the board?

 

We've tried but you keep coming back.

[cubfan]

Oh man, Peter Bourjos as the centerpiece for Matt Garza could not be more of a Jim Hendry trade.

 

he is a 270-300 ba guy, a 350-260 obp, and high 700's to low 800's ops guy through out his career. faster than heck, good defender....what's the down side?

 

He might have been that throughout his minor league career, but in parts of three seasons, he is sporting a .248 batting average and a .300 OBP. He has a way to go to get to the numbers you are saying he's already at.

 

being sneaky with numbers...he played 8 games in 2010, had the mentioned stat line 2011, which again is better than all but 2 of our guys this year.

at his stat line for last year, he would still be a good addition...

if you knew anything about him other than reading his mlb stat line, it would be no stretch that he would hit 270, with 30 hrs, have a 320-330 obp and push 850 ops. he has never gone down in stats his 2nd season at a level. never is a pretty good baseline for a bet

now did i think he would go 300, slug close to 700 and hit 40+ hrs...no way.

but i guess even without this year, the idea of dropping marmol's salary and getting an actual player certainly would have made as much sense as trading z for volstad, and paying 15mil. to me it would have been well worth the gamble. Now if you want to argue, the angels would never have done it, then you may be right but the argument that trumbo would have been the problem in that deal is crazy.

 

I'll admit, I'm getting confused. Are we talking about Peter Bourjos of the Angels?

 

He played in 51 games in 2010, not eight. He did not have the mentioned stat line in 2011, as his OBP was .327 and not .350 to .360.

 

In 273 games and 835 at-bats, he has a .249 average and a .301 OBP. I don't know him enough to say that he couldn't hit your projections, but I do know enough to say that there is at least some mounting evidence over three seasons that he won't.

 

I'm pretty sure he is talking about Mark Trumbo. Some of the detail got lost in the quotes and he is talking about a hypothetical trade for Trumbo for Marmol from last year I think.

[SouthSideRyan]

You know what the best part about this weird crusade against me regarding Mark Trumbo is? The entirety of my argument about Trumbo in the offseason was that I didn't think his OBP would ever come around. Neely thought it would because he put up a 368 in the PCL

[davell]

Marlin has a bad feeling Garza won't pitch on Monday. He also called it a noninjury, although it's possible I'm reading too much into that part of it.

[Elrhino]

Jayson Stark was on Jonah Kerri's podcast yesterday, and Kerri asked him why there isn't more chatter about a Garza trade. Stark said that teams who are inquiring about Garza can't get assurances from the Cubs that Garza is going to pitch again before the deadline. Obviously, this is a hurdle in enticing a team to surrender a 4 piece package with a Top 20 prospect centerpiece.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Jayson Stark was on Jonah Kerri's podcast yesterday, and Kerri asked him why there isn't more chatter about a Garza trade. Stark said that teams who are inquiring about Garza can't get assurances from the Cubs that Garza is going to pitch again before the deadline. Obviously, this is a hurdle in enticing a team to surrender a 4 piece package with a Top 20 prospect centerpiece.

 

:banghead:

 

This is turning into the trade-deadline equivalent of the 2008 NLDS.

[Sammy Sofa]

Meh, I wanted them to keep him all along, so yay!

[neely crenshaw]

You know what the best part about this weird crusade against me regarding Mark Trumbo is? The entirety of my argument about Trumbo in the offseason was that I didn't think his OBP would ever come around. Neely thought it would because he put up a 368 in the PCL

no actually your original thought was "trumbo blows"

and you brought up the pcl. I brought up the fact that ever year when he played at the same level again, his stats went up, and his obp went 20-30 points...when he went to the pcl it went up 70. I thought he usual stats (not including the pcl) of 270-280, 330 obp and 500+ slugging were very possible almost probable.

I also thought that dumping marmol's salary even for a guy you had trumbo's last years line would have been fine. It certainly would have been better than volstad for z.

 

and again that awful stat line that isn't good enough for the cubs has an ops better than all but 2 cubs for this, and better than all but one returning player from last year.

that would have been a great trade, obviously hindsight helps but it was dismissed immediately when no matter what happened this year it would have been a good trade for the cubs. Now if we were contending, maybe not, but struggling for any players and in no need of an expensive closer, then it would have been fine even if trumbo bombed.

[Sammy Sofa]

So is this guy some kind of bitter savant that remembers every post that disagreed with him or does he actually bookmark them?

[Guest]

bitter savant

[abuck1220]

man, ryan sure does look stupid for convincing the cubs to turn down that very real offer of mark trumbo for carlos marmol. THANKS A LOT JERK.

[Tracer Bullet]

He's probably been in dempster's ear about how terrible Atlanta is. Quit meddling, dirtbag.