College Basketball 2011-2012

[SouthSideRyan]

The only thing absurd and obscene is how fast IU has returned from the dead to surpass Illinois.

 

And Iowa!! REMARKABLE

[Magnetic Curses]

there was literally a foul called on 10 straight trips, go back and check it..

 

I did and that claim seems to be, well, literally false.

 

Yeah, but he just made you waste 5 minutes of your day, so point sulley (and 2 free ones for IU)

 

i didn't think anyone would actually check, but the image of eow sitting in front of his tv pausing and unpausing and rewinding holding a clipboard makes me smile

 

Haha. I just checked the play-by-play though: http://espn.go.com/ncb/playbyplay?gameId=320400084

 

Also, "i didn't think anyone would actually check"? Isn't that, ostensibly, "it wasn't meant to be a factual statement" . . . ?

 

can you tell how many possessions the hoosiers had in the second half? i can't find that.

[woodchip2153]

Like Sulley needed any more ammo.

 

http://btn.com/2012/02/10/big-ten-geeks-the-charity-stripe/

[Magnetic Curses]

Like Sulley needed any more ammo.

 

http://btn.com/2012/02/10/big-ten-geeks-the-charity-stripe/

 

they are totally embiggened at home

[Exile on Waveland]

can you tell how many possessions the hoosiers had in the second half? i can't find that.

 

It's not in the box score; I'm sure it is somewhere but I don't know where. Because I'm a nerd, I counted from the play-by-play (also, predicting what you're getting at, I counted fouls). The count is open to some interpretation -- offensive rebounds not counted as seperate possession, Sheehey's steal and immediate turnover as a possession -- and mistakes, but by my count:

 

33 offensive possessions

15 fouls called on Illinois

 

Now that's a bit skewed for two reasons: IU's last four possession, and five of the last six, resulted in fouls (I don't have a photographic memory or game tape, but it's likely that all/most/some of those possessions Illinois was fouling intentionally), there were three offensive rebounds, which I didn't as extra possessions, but did result in fouls (fouls often result on put-backs from offensive rebounds), and one of those is Hulls being fouled after a defensive rebound (which, in person without the benefit of replay, looked like a foul to me).

 

I also counted shots made/missed (from the play-by-play it is impossible to determine if free throws resulted from an open court play, an over-the-back foul, a drive, a layup attempt, etc.; much less whether they were fouls or not). Shot selection, by my count, in the second half:

 

Illinois

3 layups/dunks

8 jumpers

13 three-pointers

 

Indiana

11 layups/dunks

4 jumpers

3 three-pointers

[Smack]

The only thing absurd and obscene is how fast IU has returned from the dead to surpass Illinois.

 

And Iowa!! REMARKABLE

 

IU has finished dead last in both major sports for what, four years running?

 

They didn't do anything fast.

 

If the NCAA had balls the penalties for IUs cheating would've lasted longer. Let's not forget the basketball program was in the dumps because they hired a known cheater, and he *gasp* cheated again.

[Magnetic Curses]

if you take out the 5 3's the illini shot in the final 5 minutes, it would look better.

 

it's also hard to get layups when you're getting roughed up, conversely it's hard to contest layups when your best two players are in bad foul trouble.

 

30 fouls in the game and 20 fouls in the second half. watching you squirm is like watching a merryman try to explain how weber has done a good job so far.

[SouthSideRyan]

Like Sulley needed any more ammo.

 

http://btn.com/2012/02/10/big-ten-geeks-the-charity-stripe/

 

Pay no attention to the man behind the statsheet.

[Exile on Waveland]

if you take out the 5 3's the illini shot in the final 5 minutes, it would look better.

 

it's also hard to get layups when you're getting roughed up, conversely it's hard to contest layups when your best two players are in bad foul trouble.

 

30 fouls in the game and 20 fouls in the second half. watching you squirm is like watching a merryman try to explain how weber has done a good job so far.

 

1. Absolutely, officiating can persuade teams to drive and dissuade other teams from driving. It's possible that happened; that's opinion and my post was mainly trying to put forth facts.

 

2. I'm not squirming. I said Illinios got homered. But IU did deserve more free throws, in my opinion, which I think is supported by the shot-selection (but see above for possible officiating outcomes). Further, I merely attempted to answer your questions and lay out some facts as you requested -- there was meant to be no thesis to my post.

[brinoch]

I generally think B1G officiating is crappy. I thought the officials got pretty foul-happy at the beginning of the second half, and then tried to correct it, but couldn't. Part of that was Illinois playing very physically on IU's drives, and part to my eyes was the fact that the Illini were hitting most of their shots to start the half.

[Smack]

Like Sulley needed any more ammo.

 

http://btn.com/2012/02/10/big-ten-geeks-the-charity-stripe/

 

Shocking, IU with the biggest FT advantage at home and it's not even close.

[SouthSideRyan]

Maybe the Indiana fans have woodchip on ignore?

[brinoch]

Also, Bruce Weber is a pretty big whiner and a mediocre coach at best. The Illini played a good first half and shot well to start the second half. But they never answered IU's drives and took too many jumpers when Leonard was in the post or when cuts were open. I felt they were rushing their shots a bit as well. Leonard and Zeller are both really talented and watching them was pretty fun.

[Smack]

Maybe the Indiana fans have woodchip on ignore?

 

It's because they have have completely different schemes both offensively and defensively at home and on the road. Duh.

[rawaction]

Also, Bruce Weber is a pretty big whiner and a mediocre coach at best. The Illini played a good first half and shot well to start the second half. But they never answered IU's drives and took too many jumpers when Leonard was in the post or when cuts were open. I felt they were rushing their shots a bit as well. Leonard and Zeller are both really talented and watching them was pretty fun.

 

We have all pointed out the facts before. IU was clearly the more aggressive team. Layup attempts clearly don't tell the story, especially when most of the FTs were due to players driving to the hoop. The daggers in the game were Hulls getting to the baseline, finding Zeller for a dunk and 1. And then him getting in the lane and hitting Watford for the 3. IU made a legit effort to get to the rim on almost every drive in the 2nd half. That should be pretty clear from anyone watching the game. It also should be common sense that that's how most basketball games are officiated. The aggressive team gets the calls.

 

If you guys want to complain about the ticky-tack calls that got IU in the bonus in the 2nd, I also think IU was called for several of those in the 2nd half, albeit later in the half.

[Exile on Waveland]

Maybe the Indiana fans have woodchip on ignore?

 

IU has played six home games and is coming off a game with an, admitted, huge disparity in free throws. It's hard for me to consider numbers from six games very dispositive. Further, IU has played Ohio State, Michigan State, Michigan, and Wisconsin on the road -- which no other team has -- meaning IU's road stats likely are skewed in the other direction and will change. I would like to see the full-season numbers, and then numbers from previous seasons, before any actual conclusion is made. It's hard to claim a trend based on an unbalanced six games from one season.

 

That said, outside of the most irrational, I doubt you'll find IU fans that don't believe Assembly Hall offers an advantage in this regard. In the Big Ten, every team receives such an advantage. Is IU's advantage more significant? I'd say most likely because officials -- actually humans in general, as studies have shown -- react to crowd noise and extraneous factors when making decisions. And Assembly Hall is probably/possibly the loudest stadium in the Big Ten (anecdotally, it seems that way to me . . . but I haven't been to Nebraska . . . haha).

[bukie]

Maybe the Indiana fans have woodchip on ignore?

 

IU has played six home games and is coming off a game with an, admitted, huge disparity in free throws. It's hard for me to consider numbers from six games very dispositive. Further, IU has played Ohio State, Michigan State, Michigan, and Wisconsin on the road -- which no other team has -- meaning IU's road stats likely are skewed in the other direction and will change. I would like to see the full-season numbers, and then numbers from previous seasons, before any actual conclusion is made. It's hard to claim a trend based on an unbalanced six games from one season.

 

That said, outside of the most irrational, I doubt you'll find IU fans that don't believe Assembly Hall offers an advantage in this regard. In the Big Ten, every team receives such an advantage. Is IU's advantage more significant? I'd say most likely because officials -- actually humans in general, as studies have shown -- react to crowd noise and extraneous factors when making decisions. And Assembly Hall is probably/possibly the loudest stadium in the Big Ten (anecdotally, it seems that way to me . . . but I haven't been to Nebraska . . . haha).

Just FYI, those are the season numbers, not conference only. It bears out what I was saying, Illinois generally doesn't go to the line a lot, but nobody goes to the line as much as IU did last night.

[SouthSideRyan]

I don't see anything on there saying it's for conference games only.

[Exile on Waveland]

Maybe the Indiana fans have woodchip on ignore?

 

IU has played six home games and is coming off a game with an, admitted, huge disparity in free throws. It's hard for me to consider numbers from six games very dispositive. Further, IU has played Ohio State, Michigan State, Michigan, and Wisconsin on the road -- which no other team has -- meaning IU's road stats likely are skewed in the other direction and will change. I would like to see the full-season numbers, and then numbers from previous seasons, before any actual conclusion is made. It's hard to claim a trend based on an unbalanced six games from one season.

 

That said, outside of the most irrational, I doubt you'll find IU fans that don't believe Assembly Hall offers an advantage in this regard. In the Big Ten, every team receives such an advantage. Is IU's advantage more significant? I'd say most likely because officials -- actually humans in general, as studies have shown -- react to crowd noise and extraneous factors when making decisions. And Assembly Hall is probably/possibly the loudest stadium in the Big Ten (anecdotally, it seems that way to me . . . but I haven't been to Nebraska . . . haha).

Just FYI, those are the season numbers, not conference only. It bears out what I was saying, Illinois generally doesn't go to the line a lot, but nobody goes to the line as much as IU did last night.

 

OK, my mistake. I think my point still stands that it's still a relatively small, unbalanced sample size (IU played a ton of patsies in the non-conference season).

[SouthSideRyan]

Maybe the Indiana fans have woodchip on ignore?

 

IU has played six home games and is coming off a game with an, admitted, huge disparity in free throws. It's hard for me to consider numbers from six games very dispositive. Further, IU has played Ohio State, Michigan State, Michigan, and Wisconsin on the road -- which no other team has -- meaning IU's road stats likely are skewed in the other direction and will change. I would like to see the full-season numbers, and then numbers from previous seasons, before any actual conclusion is made. It's hard to claim a trend based on an unbalanced six games from one season.

 

That said, outside of the most irrational, I doubt you'll find IU fans that don't believe Assembly Hall offers an advantage in this regard. In the Big Ten, every team receives such an advantage. Is IU's advantage more significant? I'd say most likely because officials -- actually humans in general, as studies have shown -- react to crowd noise and extraneous factors when making decisions. And Assembly Hall is probably/possibly the loudest stadium in the Big Ten (anecdotally, it seems that way to me . . . but I haven't been to Nebraska . . . haha).

Just FYI, those are the season numbers, not conference only. It bears out what I was saying, Illinois generally doesn't go to the line a lot, but nobody goes to the line as much as IU did last night.

 

OK, my mistake. I think my point still stands that it's still a relatively small, unbalanced sample size (IU played a ton of patsies in the non-conference season).

 

Who do you think the rest of the Big Ten was playing?

[Exile on Waveland]

I don't see anything on there saying it's for conference games only.

 

I skimmed and assumed. I was wrong.

[brinoch]

Also, Bruce Weber is a pretty big whiner and a mediocre coach at best. The Illini played a good first half and shot well to start the second half. But they never answered IU's drives and took too many jumpers when Leonard was in the post or when cuts were open. I felt they were rushing their shots a bit as well. Leonard and Zeller are both really talented and watching them was pretty fun.

 

We have all pointed out the facts before. IU was clearly the more aggressive team. Layup attempts clearly don't tell the story, especially when most of the FTs were due to players driving to the hoop. The daggers in the game were Hulls getting to the baseline, finding Zeller for a dunk and 1. And then him getting in the lane and hitting Watford for the 3. IU made a legit effort to get to the rim on almost every drive in the 2nd half. That should be pretty clear from anyone watching the game. It also should be common sense that that's how most basketball games are officiated. The aggressive team gets the calls.

 

If you guys want to complain about the ticky-tack calls that got IU in the bonus in the 2nd, I also think IU was called for several of those in the 2nd half, albeit later in the half.

 

To be fair, watching the game, I noticed that at the beginning of the second half, IU was extremely aggressive in getting to the basket and there were a lot of fouls called. It was a more tightly called game than in the first half, and it seemed the refs made a conscious effort to tighten up the game. And in a tightly called game, that strongly favors the more aggressive team.

 

If the Illini fans in general weren't so crappy towards IU and hadn't been so disrespectful the last couple of years, I might be able to be more objective.

[Sosa21MVP]

The only thing absurd and obscene is how fast IU has returned from the dead to surpass Illinois.

 

And Iowa!! REMARKABLE

 

IU has finished dead last in both major sports for what, four years running?

 

They didn't do anything fast.

 

If the NCAA had balls the penalties for IUs cheating would've lasted longer. Let's not forget the basketball program was in the dumps because they hired a known cheater, and he *gasp* cheated again.

 

For starting over with only two glorified waterboys as the only returning players, I would say 4 years is a fairly quick timeframe to get back to this point. The football team is almost always in the cellar so that isn't exactly breaking news.

[SouthSideRyan]

Also, Bruce Weber is a pretty big whiner and a mediocre coach at best. The Illini played a good first half and shot well to start the second half. But they never answered IU's drives and took too many jumpers when Leonard was in the post or when cuts were open. I felt they were rushing their shots a bit as well. Leonard and Zeller are both really talented and watching them was pretty fun.

 

We have all pointed out the facts before. IU was clearly the more aggressive team. Layup attempts clearly don't tell the story, especially when most of the FTs were due to players driving to the hoop. The daggers in the game were Hulls getting to the baseline, finding Zeller for a dunk and 1. And then him getting in the lane and hitting Watford for the 3. IU made a legit effort to get to the rim on almost every drive in the 2nd half. That should be pretty clear from anyone watching the game. It also should be common sense that that's how most basketball games are officiated. The aggressive team gets the calls.

 

If you guys want to complain about the ticky-tack calls that got IU in the bonus in the 2nd, I also think IU was called for several of those in the 2nd half, albeit later in the half.

 

To be fair, watching the game, I noticed that at the beginning of the second half, IU was extremely aggressive in getting to the basket and there were a lot of fouls called. It was a more tightly called game than in the first half, and it seemed the refs made a conscious effort to tighten up the game. And in a tightly called game, that strongly favors the more aggressive team.

 

If the Illini fans in general weren't so crappy towards IU and hadn't been so disrespectful the last couple of years, I might be able to be more objective.

 

Oh, a thousand pardons sire. How awful of us to pick at IU for no reason.

[rawaction]

I don't care what those numbers say, nobody gets the home court advantage that Wisconsin does. There's no way a team that only allows 55 points per game never fouls like them in Madison.