College Basketball 2011-2012

[SouthSideRyan]

Well that made my day.

 

ETA: Sulley's post, not continued IU fans being IU fans.

[Sosa21MVP]

oh, i'm not that disappointed we lost, i understand that it's better for us in the long run if we do. but when i see obvious disregard for humility, pride, and the joy of sportsmanship, i can no longer remain seated, sir.

 

again, i call for the heads of the refs, to be presented at the new unmarked gravesite of joe paterno after he is exhumed and reburied. their wives and children and pets can be entombed alive with them, coins placed in their mouths to assure their passage to tartarus is paid for.

 

I must admit that is an epic post. :hello:

[Magnetic Curses]

Fine, irrational it is.

 

what's irrational? as i've said, illinois made 12 layups and missed 10. raw made the claim that indiana had 7-8 missed layups, they made 14 of them, which would mean that they attempted 21-22, at best the same amount that illinois attempted.

 

this myth that indiana got to the basket an appreciable amount more than illinois is irrational, if anything.

 

This is a discussion point. Almost everything else posted here, excepting bukie, has been irrationality.

 

Regardless, those stats prove little. First, "layups" in play-by-plays and box scores aren't inherently drives to the basket (or even "lay-ups" by the common understanding). Often, the official scorer -- and I've received these every time out covering college basketball in my previous job -- counts any short jumpers as such because it's easier. Second, it may not be relevant for this game, but raw is correct that breakaway dunks are not equivalent to half-court drives when discussing fouls. Third, and, most importantly, the made/missed numbers may look the same, but that does not account for IU's drives that resulted in fouls. You can't harp on the fact that IU received a foul call every time they got close to the basket, then ignore those times they got close to the basket to prove that Illinois got close to the basket as often as IU.

 

Further, Illinois took fifty shots and twenty-one were 3-pointers (forty-two percent of their shots). IU took forty-two shots and only twelve were 3-pointers (twenty-nine percent of their shots). This certainly implies that IU was more aggressive going to the basket and not settling for jumpers (unless there was a rash of long 2-pointers from IU, which I don't recall).

 

Finally, you're addressing a poster that admitted last night that Illinois got homered a bit. Still, my last post was an attempt to steer away from the officiating because officiating discussions are almost inherently irrational.

 

i'll address the issues of the 3-pointers first. the illini had 16 with 5 minutes to go, indiana had 12, not a huge difference. but due to the absolute filthy and deplorable behavior of the referees, they found themselves behind by a large margin and had to chuck.

 

i disagree with your first assertion. the scorecard i saw counted meyers' opening basket as a jumpshot, even though it was obviously a layup. he got the ball, made a pivot and put it off the backboard with his left hand. hardly a jumpshot. his 5-foot quick-hook was also counted as a jumpshot, although he obviously got it because of a post move after getting the ball in position in the lane. zeller was draped all over him and it most certainly would have been called a foul if the roles had been reversed.

 

the breakaway dunks and layups are still aggressive drives to the hoop, off of strong outlet passes or whatever. when illinois was getting breakaways they were being aggressive, and fouls occur generally more regularly on breakaways anyway. you're right, it's not applicable to this game so let's dismiss it.

 

your third point would be true only assuming most of these fouls prevented layups. a good share were not of this kind at all. if they were, you most likely wouldn't see the outrage. it wouldn't be so egregious if paul hadn't been fouled at least 3 times going to the hoop with the game still in question while hulls got a hand-check call or a bs foul call on a well-defended 15-foot jumpshot on the other end of the floor. there was literally a foul called on 10 straight trips, go back and check it.

 

it would be nice to be the beneficiaries of calls like that, but i doubt that illinois has EVER shot 42 free throws in a game or been in the bonus with 14 minutes to go in the second half, cherish that kind of homerism.

[Sosa21MVP]

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h228/sebennett99/Cody.jpg

[illiniguy]

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h228/sebennett99/Cody.jpg

Lol, those two don't care much for each other. I liked that.

[CubColtPacer]

I can't find anywhere close to 10 trips in a row that a foul was called. The closest I can find is a stretch where Illinois got called for 6 fouls on 4 trips down the floor for Indiana (there was also a turnover by Indiana in the backcourt during that stretch and an offensive rebound so it wasn't exactly 4 possessions).

 

As for the rest, that's prone to interpretation. But I would point out that Hulls wasn't the player getting to the line all that often (6 FT total and 2 of those were because of an over the back call on the other end). It was Zeller and Oladipo, and neither of them like to shoot jump shots for 2's (Oladipo tends to either shoots 3's or go all the way to the rim and Zeller always shoots close to the rim. They actually both need more of a midrange game). So the type of fouls you describe wouldn't be real typical for those two. That of course could only be ascertained for sure by looking at the game tape, and even if I wanted to go back I don't have it anymore.

[mul21]

My favorite play was when the IU guard came around the elbow on the drive, very clearly forearm shivered the UI defender in the chest to get around the corner and to the basket and the UI guy got called for the foul. That was awesome. And pretty typical of the calls most of the game.

 

Not that the Illini aren't a bunch of terribly coached choking dogs at this point, but the officiating certainly was a hindrance last night.

[Bruno7481]

The horse is well beyond dead....

 

But the Illini undercut Sheehey. Leonard threw Zeller down and should have been T'd up...blah blah.

[SouthSideRyan]

That was the problem with last night, Illinois didn't get enough fouls called on them.

[illiniguy]

That was the problem with last night, Illinois didn't get enough fouls called on them.

I feel IU should have shot 75 to 80 free throws.

[Magnetic Curses]

The horse is well beyond dead....

 

But the Illini undercut Sheehey. Leonard threw Zeller down and should have been T'd up...blah blah.

 

meyers did righteously smiteth down the ugly one, but sheehey was not undercut, he anticipated contact and got none--causing him to fall on his face.

Edited February 10, 2012 by Stannis

[Bruno7481]

The point is that any fan can list multiple incidents per game where they felt as if their team was wronged. It isn't news to anyone that officiating isn't very good. I thought I explained a balanced opinion about that aspect of the game in my original post.

 

Enough is enough though. IU fans think they are the better team regardless of officiating. Illinois fans disagree. Lets move on.

[Exile on Waveland]

there was literally a foul called on 10 straight trips, go back and check it..

 

I did and that claim seems to be, well, literally false.

[SouthSideRyan]

That's what really needs to be focused on from last night. Just how ugly Cody Zeller is. The rest of this is pretty trivial.

[illiniguy]

The point is that any fan can list multiple incidents per game where they felt as if their team was wronged. It isn't news to anyone that officiating isn't very good. I thought I explained a balanced opinion about that aspect of the game in my original post.

 

Enough is enough though. IU fans think they are the better team regardless of officiating. Illinois fans disagree. Lets move on.

I think you're the better team, but we had a chance to win stolen from us.

[Bruno7481]

That's what really needs to be focused on from last night. Just how ugly Cody Zeller is. The rest of this is pretty trivial.

 

Don't mess with "The Big Handsome".

[SouthSideRyan]

there was literally a foul called on 10 straight trips, go back and check it..

 

I did and that claim seems to be, well, literally false.

 

Yeah, but he just made you waste 5 minutes of your day, so point sulley (and 2 free ones for IU)

[Magnetic Curses]

there was literally a foul called on 10 straight trips, go back and check it..

 

I did and that claim seems to be, well, literally false.

 

30 fouls in 40 minutes, i'm certain that it must be true, it literally cannot be untrue.

 

30 fouls to 16. you pukes loved the officiating i bet.

[Magnetic Curses]

there was literally a foul called on 10 straight trips, go back and check it..

 

I did and that claim seems to be, well, literally false.

 

Yeah, but he just made you waste 5 minutes of your day, so point sulley (and 2 free ones for IU)

 

i didn't think anyone would actually check, but the image of eow sitting in front of his tv pausing and unpausing and rewinding holding a clipboard makes me smile

[Magnetic Curses]

The point is that any fan can list multiple incidents per game where they felt as if their team was wronged. It isn't news to anyone that officiating isn't very good. I thought I explained a balanced opinion about that aspect of the game in my original post.

 

Enough is enough though. IU fans think they are the better team regardless of officiating. Illinois fans disagree. Lets move on.

 

when anecdotal evidence is supported by real data, that equals a balanced opinion. spin this any way you want, but there were 30 fouls called on the illini and 16 called on indiana. it was an absurd and obscene spectacle last night.

[SouthSideRyan]

That's what really needs to be focused on from last night. Just how ugly Cody Zeller is. The rest of this is pretty trivial.

 

Don't mess with "The Big Handsome".

 

Like calling a huge guy Tiny or a one-armed guy Lefty.

[Bruno7481]

The only thing absurd and obscene is how fast IU has returned from the dead to surpass Illinois.

[Magnetic Curses]

a remarkable achievement

[Magnetic Curses]

it was really fun while it lasted though. can't wait for the next scandal

[Exile on Waveland]

there was literally a foul called on 10 straight trips, go back and check it..

 

I did and that claim seems to be, well, literally false.

 

Yeah, but he just made you waste 5 minutes of your day, so point sulley (and 2 free ones for IU)

 

i didn't think anyone would actually check, but the image of eow sitting in front of his tv pausing and unpausing and rewinding holding a clipboard makes me smile

 

Haha. I just checked the play-by-play though: http://espn.go.com/ncb/playbyplay?gameId=320400084

 

Also, "i didn't think anyone would actually check"? Isn't that, ostensibly, "it wasn't meant to be a factual statement" . . . ?