College Basketball 2011-2012

[bukie]

Missouri was easily a top 8 team. Unfortunately, so were the other 7. Mizzou has a decent argument for a better resume than Duke. Outside that, though? Not so much.

 

Again, this argument all hinges on assuming Mizzou would lose at least 3 more games if they played similar schedules to Ohio St/Michigan St. Which is a large assumption when you look at how Mizzou has fared against Top 10 schools (4-1).

No, the argument is that the rest of the top two seeds are clearly better teams based on efficiency ratings. Stop using coaches polls in your argument, you're way out of your league in the argument here.

[abuck1220]

ugh, what a shitty draw for iowa state. i'd rather play any of the other 8/9 seeds. drew the best 9 seed and the best 1 seed. i'd have been pumped to draw st. louis, creighton, southern miss, alabama...

[bukie]

ugh, what a [expletive] draw for iowa state. i'd rather play any of the other 8/9 seeds. drew the best 9 seed and the best 1 seed. i'd have been pumped to draw st. louis, creighton, southern miss, alabama...

Meh, UConn is scary in name only this year. They've beaten one good team in three months. I'd say they were the weakest 9 seed, but Southern Miss blows that argument up, and Alabama has the same problem UConn has (haven't beat a good team in forever). Really, all the 9 seeds are beatable this year.

[Andy]

ugh, what a [expletive] draw for iowa state. i'd rather play any of the other 8/9 seeds. drew the best 9 seed and the best 1 seed. i'd have been pumped to draw st. louis, creighton, southern miss, alabama...

UConn is a talented team but they're also a bunch of idiots. If ISU plays smart they'll be fine.

[Sammys Boombox]

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/rankings

 

Mizzou got screwed. That is all.

 

http://kenpom.com/

 

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/bkt1112.htm

 

Missouri definitely did not get screwed. And even though they were eighth on the S-Curve, they ended up with the lowest ranked No. 1 seed in Michigan State anyway.

 

So, schedule the teams that you'll beat by 15-20 instead of the teams you'll beat by 30. OK.

Just stop. You clearly have no idea how the efficiency ratings work.

 

Honestly, I do not. SOS is a factor, maybe not in the way I assumed. Do either of these take into account if you are murdering your opponents every night? Asking a serious question here.

 

Also, another serious question. Do you honestly think that Missouri is only the 8th best team in the country? Or, do you think that their schedule did not allow them to prove that they were better than that? Would beating Oklahoma State have pushed them from 8th overall to 3rd or 4th? Would losing in the Big XII tournament to Baylor or kU in the championship have pushed them down to a 3 seed?

[kujay]

First power conference team to win 30 and not get a 1 seed. You want to put them as the #5 overall? Fine. I'm not happy with it, but whatever. But to put them as the #8 overall and not put them in the St. Louis bracket? That's insane.

If Mizzou had been placed in the St. Louis bracket as a 2 seed, it would have been, no joke, one of the biggest screw jobs in the history of the tournament towards whoever was the 1 in that region. Come on.

 

You think it's going to be much different for them that kU is there? They're going to pack the place.

 

Well you're right this at least.

[Sammys Boombox]

Missouri was easily a top 8 team. Unfortunately, so were the other 7. Mizzou has a decent argument for a better resume than Duke. Outside that, though? Not so much.

 

Again, this argument all hinges on assuming Mizzou would lose at least 3 more games if they played similar schedules to Ohio St/Michigan St. Which is a large assumption when you look at how Mizzou has fared against Top 10 schools (4-1).

No, the argument is that the rest of the top two seeds are clearly better teams based on efficiency ratings. Stop using coaches polls in your argument, you're way out of your league in the argument here.

 

All I'm saying in that statement is that they have played well against good teams. You can't assume that a team would lose games that they haven't played against good schools, especially when they have played good teams well.

 

And I seriously do want an explanation on how the SOS works in these efficiency ratings because you shouldn't be awarded for losing against good teams.

[abuck1220]

my goodness, iona's resume is wretched.

[UMFan83]

lol on Sportscenter they are picking the entire bracket. So far they've done 2 regions. In the West its 1,2,3,4 seeds advancing, 2 beats 3 and 1 beats 4 with 1 MSU going to the final 4. In the midwest same thing. No upsets, everything according to seeding. Way to go out on a limb guys.

[SouthSideRyan]

Honestly, I do not. SOS is a factor, maybe not in the way I assumed. Do either of these take into account if you are murdering your opponents every night? Asking a serious question here.

Yes.

 

Would losing in the Big XII tournament to Baylor or kU in the championship have pushed them down to a 3 seed?

 

Not in our bracket. There was a big drop-off after the top 8.

[UMFan83]

lol on Sportscenter they are picking the entire bracket. So far they've done 2 regions. In the West its 1,2,3,4 seeds advancing, 2 beats 3 and 1 beats 4 with 1 MSU going to the final 4. In the midwest same thing. No upsets, everything according to seeding. Way to go out on a limb guys.

 

Almost did the same thing in the South bracket. 1,2,3,4 made the sweet 16, but Baylor beat Duke before losing to Kentucky. What a wild bracket!

 

Edit: OK Dicky V had the East bracket and went with 3 FSU and 5 Vanderbilt in the E8 with FSU advancing to the final 4. Thank God for Vitale.

[Guest]

lol on Sportscenter they are picking the entire bracket. So far they've done 2 regions. In the West its 1,2,3,4 seeds advancing, 2 beats 3 and 1 beats 4 with 1 MSU going to the final 4. In the midwest same thing. No upsets, everything according to seeding. Way to go out on a limb guys.

 

Almost did the same thing in the South bracket. 1,2,3,4 made the sweet 16, but Baylor beat Duke before losing to Kentucky. What a wild bracket!

 

Edit: OK Dicky V had the East bracket and went with 3 FSU and 5 Vanderbilt in the E8 with FSU advancing to the final 4. Thank God for Vitale.

 

They did the same thing last year. They rarely pick anything other than the top-4 to go to the S16 and usually have the 1's all to the E8.

[chuckywang]

my goodness, iona's resume is wretched.

 

Why the strong language? The last teams in the field will all have flaws. Nobody's denying that, but Iona had a very good season considering their conference. 9-3 against a 44 out of conference SOS is decent.

[Magnetic Curses]

well, missouri pretty much blew the only chance at a #1 seed they'll ever get. nice job.

[abuck1220]

my goodness, iona's resume is wretched.

 

Why the strong language? The last teams in the field will all have flaws. Nobody's denying that, but Iona had a very good season considering their conference. 9-3 against a 44 out of conference SOS is decent.

 

they beat zero tournament teams, beat zero top 50 rpi teams. their best win was (i guess) home vs. st. joe's. they lost to hofstra, manhattan, siena and fairfield. if you could somehow list those things on a power conference team's resume, they wouldn't make the CBI.

 

edit: i guess they beat LMU who made the tourney by winning that crappy conf tournament.

[Exile on Waveland]

well, missouri pretty much blew the only chance at a #1 seed they'll ever get. nice job.

 

Missouri was a No. 1 seed in 1994.

 

(By the way, how pathetic is it that I remembered that off the top of my head? I need a life.)

Edited March 12, 2012 by Exile on Waveland

[Guest]

Sulley missed his chance by not making that comment til morning.

[Formerly Snayke]

I can't look it up right now, but how good is Marquette defensively?

[Guest]

19th in KenPom. They are Kansas State that doesn't play stone-age level offense.

[Exile on Waveland]

Purdue got a much better draw than I expected. Glad we weren't an 8/9.

 

I think that's a really good draw for Purdue. If I was a Purdue fan, I might feel a bit slighted with the 10-seed -- I think the Big Ten overall was a bit undervalued after the top two, and this board's picks seem to agree with it -- but, as you said, I'd rather be undervalued with a 10-seed than be an 8- or 9-seed. As for the opponents, Pomeroy has Purdue favored over St. Mary's (61%), who is the lowest-ranked No. 7. I'm not saying Purdue necessarily will win, but they have an excellent chance. In the second game, Kansas is obviously better than Purdue but I think they are pretty ripe for an upset. Bill Self did a great job this year, but the subtext of that is often that the team isn't quite as good as the performance. With the probable exception of Duke, I'd rather play Kansas than the other No. 2s.

[Exile on Waveland]

Obligatory IU post:

 

First, I'm thrilled just to be back in the NCAA Tournament. It's been a very difficult -- self-inflicted -- three/four years prior to this; and this team has already exceeded any realistic expectations. I'm pleased with the 4-seed and the first two pairings. This is tied with 2001 for the highest seed IU has received since 1993 (when they lost in the first round to Kent State . . . ugh). Obviously anything can happen in the tournament, but I feel relatively good about the first game with New Mexico State. Not that it's a "gimme" by any means, but it could have been much worse. The second round matchup will be very difficult whether it's Wichita State or VCU -- and I'll probably pick either one to beat IU -- but it's still a winnable game. It's also nice to avoid a potential matchup with New Mexico and all the hoopla that would have entailed.

 

My issues with the draw are more at a personal level. With so many nearby sites -- Louisville, Columbus, Nashville, Pittsburgh, even Omaha -- I was hoping to be able to easily attend (even though I was expecting to get sent out to one of the two western locales). I'm just not going to be able to travel to Portland, unfortunately. Second, and my biggest complaint, is that IU's upside in the tournament is now losing all bragging rights to Kentucky -- and, my guess would be, humiliatingly so. The UK win was such a pivotal moment for the program -- and probably my favorite moment at Assembly Hall, in 15+ years of attending basically every game -- that it could become somewhat forgotten/less meaningful/whatever. If IU does make it to the Sweet Sixteen, I think UK will be very primed for that game and probably win by 15-20 or more. My first priority for seeding/selection, was avoiding a possible game with UK; that's the team I dislike the most in any sport and I would hate to see IU lose to them after the earlier game (again, IU may never face UK, but still).

[Formerly Snayke]

19th in KenPom. They are Kansas State that doesn't play stone-age level offense.

 

How good are they at rebounding? And just looking over what I'm able to, but their offense looks to rely heavily on Johnson-Odom and Crowder, followed by a bunch of guards who shoot as well as Flip Pressey. I'm halfway optimistic that if Missouri can get to that point, they could beat them.

[Exile on Waveland]

19th in KenPom. They are Kansas State that doesn't play stone-age level offense.

 

How good are they at rebounding? And just looking over what I'm able to, but their offense looks to rely heavily on Johnson-Odom and Crowder, followed by a bunch of guards who shoot as well as Flip Pressey. I'm halfway optimistic that if Missouri can get to that point, they could beat them.

 

I would love to see Missouri and Marquette play; think that would be a great matchup. Struggling with which to pick, and I will probably have the winner in the Final Four (reminds me of 2003, when I planned on picking the Missouri-Marquette second round winner to go to the Final Four, picked Missouri . . . and Marquette went to the Final Four . . . ugh).

[Smack]

Purdue got a much better draw than I expected. Glad we weren't an 8/9.

 

I think that's a really good draw for Purdue. If I was a Purdue fan, I might feel a bit slighted with the 10-seed -- I think the Big Ten overall was a bit undervalued after the top two, and this board's picks seem to agree with it -- but, as you said, I'd rather be undervalued with a 10-seed than be an 8- or 9-seed. As for the opponents, Pomeroy has Purdue favored over St. Mary's (61%), who is the lowest-ranked No. 7. I'm not saying Purdue necessarily will win, but they have an excellent chance. In the second game, Kansas is obviously better than Purdue but I think they are pretty ripe for an upset. Bill Self did a great job this year, but the subtext of that is often that the team isn't quite as good as the performance. With the probable exception of Duke, I'd rather play Kansas than the other No. 2s.

 

Yeah, apparently there are a lot of Purdue fans that feel we got 'dissed'. Whatever, I'll take avoiding the 1 seed every time. If we were a 9 we would be playing Memphis/K-State/Creighton/Iowa St. I'm not saying we'll beat St. Mary's but I would take St. Mary's over any of those 8 seeds.

[Magnetic Curses]

Sulley missed his chance by not making that comment til morning.

 

no, like a normal human being, i just didn't notice missouri