College Basketball 2011-2012

[Sosa21MVP]

Good god, I just watched his fist speech again. Jesus H. It was our first ever shot at a title and that's what he came up with.....

 

That Illinois team was damn good though, I don't know that it mattered what Bruce said there. Not that I'm even sure that pregame speeches matter than much. It is interesting how Michigan does it now, I notice they have some assistant coach handle the pregame speeches instead of the head coach. Whether it matters or not, I don't know.

Prolly not, but good lord. "five fingers don't hurt, but together they make a fist. Take these four together and.... Make a fist and hit them. It's the most powerful." pan to Luther trying not laugh.

 

And I'm resigned to the fact we will never have another season like that. Why couldn't UNC let us get one? Bastards.

 

I did in fact want Illinois to win that game. I wanted to see Roy's non-title streak continue. Oh well.

[Exile on Waveland]

To me the best I've seen Purdue do in my lifetime was the 3-peat years and yeah, I think at least one of those was recalled after the fact by the Clay violations but still, Purdue at that time was nasty. Not pretty, but they won games. I had courtside seats when Chad Austin hit the floater to beat Indiana in overtime in 1996-97...and I had pretty good seats when Jaraan Cornell basically beat IU in overtime in 1998-99...I think IU ended up winning 2 out of 5 in Bloomington when I went to school there. We beat Purdue my freshman year when Charlie Miller pulled some crazy dunk out his behind and then Recker's freshman year we won...otherwise I think that is it. I'm still fairly bitter about IU's performance when I was actually on campus. Eh.

 

Those Purdue teams were tough as nails. Big Dog's team was the best Purdue team I've seen; but it's not hard to be good with one of the best Big Ten players I've ever seen. The mid/late 90s Purdue teams obviously had some talent, but I'd say they won more on toughness/coaching/discipline. As much as it wasn't fun losing to those teams, it was pretty difficult not to admire them.

[Exile on Waveland]

 

True . . . but the player's departure did impact the NCAA's decision. Again, after those players had left the NCAA's decision came down in November of 2008, and noted: "the committee did note the current condition of the program."

 

Which is insane. If Savannah State committed violations, would they actually reward them?

 

Obviously, you're going to disagree. But, to me, this is a distinction without a difference. Does it really matter if the NCAA or the institution decimates a program? I have a suspicion that if IU had stuck their head in the sand, hired John Calipari, kept their players/incoming recruits, etc., and the NCAA (correctly) hammered them most people -- even fans of rival schools -- would be pretty satisfied. Instead, IU did the hammering themselves and people are still upset.

 

This ignores the fact that what matters in major college athletics is on-court performance. No one goes around bragging about being allowed to conduct more recruiting visits or having a full thirteen scholarships instead of twelve. There are basically only two places the NCAA can hit a program that will hurt: wins/losses and the pocketbook (which are rather difficult to separate). IU suffered severely in on-court performance. IU was humiliated routinely against the Big Ten, against rivals like Kentucky, Purdue, and Illinois. IU was a three-year laughing stock. I'm not sure how that can be defined as anything other than reparations/punishment.

 

As for Savannah State, I think this is a bit apples-to-oranges. The NCAA has no mechanism to punish them the way it can punish IU. You can't take away Savannah State's wins/money because they have neither. They're judgment-proof just like many citizens and companies.

[Exile on Waveland]

One decent year and a half decade and you run your mouths, hard to believe no one likes your fan base.

 

It also seems that the most obnoxious IU fans were either not alive the last time they won a championship, or at best were small children.

 

edit: we should do a poll of the IU fans! How old were you guys in 1987?

 

The most obnoxious fans are younger (males)? You don't say . . .

[Exile on Waveland]

Even at that, Luther basically did nothing for Purdue and ended up at Rhode Island where he almost got them in the Final Four? I seem to recall them making the Elite Eight his senior year...or maybe it was the Sweet Sixteen.

 

Rhode Island made the Elite Eight in 1998, losing to Stanford -- keyed by Mark Madsen's dunk and silly celebration. (Somewhere snood is cringing.)

[Smack]

To me the best I've seen Purdue do in my lifetime was the 3-peat years and yeah, I think at least one of those was recalled after the fact by the Clay violations but still, Purdue at that time was nasty. Not pretty, but they won games. I had courtside seats when Chad Austin hit the floater to beat Indiana in overtime in 1996-97...and I had pretty good seats when Jaraan Cornell basically beat IU in overtime in 1998-99...I think IU ended up winning 2 out of 5 in Bloomington when I went to school there. We beat Purdue my freshman year when Charlie Miller pulled some crazy dunk out his behind and then Recker's freshman year we won...otherwise I think that is it. I'm still fairly bitter about IU's performance when I was actually on campus. Eh.

 

Purdue was 3-7 against IU when I was there. At least I got Drew Brees and Kyle Orton.

[hawkeyecub]

In non-Indiana/Illinois news, this ranking system from ESPN seems to have some promise. Similar to Pomeroy but removes some of the flaws by capping blowout margins, giving credit for winning a game and de-weighting games played without key players.

 

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7561413/bpi-college-basketball-power-index-explained

[rawaction]

In non-Indiana/Illinois news, this ranking system from ESPN seems to have some promise. Similar to Pomeroy but removes some of the flaws by capping blowout margins, giving credit for winning a game and de-weighting games played without key players.

 

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7561413/bpi-college-basketball-power-index-explained

 

Not trying to make this about IU, but I was just thinking the other night how IU went 2-0 without Elston, 4-1 without Sheehey, and are now 2-0 without Jones. Those wins included over UK (no Elston), over Ohio St and Michigan (no Sheehey), and the last 2 over Purdue (road) and Illinois with out Jones. Of course, they lost 5 of 7 with all of them healthy during conference season.

[illiniguy]

In non-Indiana/Illinois news, this ranking system from ESPN seems to have some promise. Similar to Pomeroy but removes some of the flaws by capping blowout margins, giving credit for winning a game and de-weighting games played without key players.

 

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7561413/bpi-college-basketball-power-index-explained

And it was done by Dean Oliver.... Oh the other one.

[CubColtPacer]

In non-Indiana/Illinois news, this ranking system from ESPN seems to have some promise. Similar to Pomeroy but removes some of the flaws by capping blowout margins, giving credit for winning a game and de-weighting games played without key players.

 

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7561413/bpi-college-basketball-power-index-explained

 

Interesting. Taking a quick look at it compared to the newest bracketology, BPI seems to really like Wichita State and loves St. Louis. It doesn't like teams like Michigan or Florida State. And it really doesn't like Murray State. I'm sure there are others I missed that have wide disparities.

[gflore34]

Why do people always site or come up with that [expletive], bs, lame "elite" argument when discussing expectations for Illinois basketball? It is such a load of nonsense, I expect Illinois to be a NCAA team almost every season, there's no reason they shouldn't with Chicago as a recruiting area. A program doesn't have to be "elite" for that to happen, did Arkansas, Maryland or Florida make sure to check if they were an "elite" program before winning the tournament?

[illiniguy]

Why do people always site or come up with that [expletive], bs, lame "elite" argument when discussing expectations for Illinois basketball? It is such a load of nonsense, I expect Illinois to be a NCAA team almost every season, there's no reason they shouldn't with Chicago as a recruiting area. A program doesn't have to be "elite" for that to happen, did Arkansas, Maryland or Florida make sure to check if they were an "elite" program before winning the tournament?

I mean I get what they are saying, it isn't an elite program. I would argue it's an elite job though. Prior to Weber our coaches parlayed this job into the Kansas job and a pro job. It's very close to Chicago and has a rabid fan base.

[gflore34]

Why do people always site or come up with that [expletive], bs, lame "elite" argument when discussing expectations for Illinois basketball? It is such a load of nonsense, I expect Illinois to be a NCAA team almost every season, there's no reason they shouldn't with Chicago as a recruiting area. A program doesn't have to be "elite" for that to happen, did Arkansas, Maryland or Florida make sure to check if they were an "elite" program before winning the tournament?

I mean I get what they are saying, it isn't an elite program. I would argue it's an elite job though. Prior to Weber our coaches parlayed this job into the Kansas job and a pro job. It's very close to Chicago and has a rabid fan base.

 

If they do fire Weber, I don't believe they'll have any problem in getting whom they target. Smart leaves VCU in a nanosecond for Illinois if it's offered to him.

[Magnetic Curses]

Why do people always site or come up with that [expletive], bs, lame "elite" argument when discussing expectations for Illinois basketball? It is such a load of nonsense, I expect Illinois to be a NCAA team almost every season, there's no reason they shouldn't with Chicago as a recruiting area. A program doesn't have to be "elite" for that to happen, did Arkansas, Maryland or Florida make sure to check if they were an "elite" program before winning the tournament?

 

the talent on the current roster is enough to win the big ten, this year and next year. if we replace the coach, next year could happen.

[gflore34]

Why do people always site or come up with that [expletive], bs, lame "elite" argument when discussing expectations for Illinois basketball? It is such a load of nonsense, I expect Illinois to be a NCAA team almost every season, there's no reason they shouldn't with Chicago as a recruiting area. A program doesn't have to be "elite" for that to happen, did Arkansas, Maryland or Florida make sure to check if they were an "elite" program before winning the tournament?

 

the talent on the current roster is enough to win the big ten, this year and next year. if we replace the coach, next year could happen.

 

I agree, you can see it flashes, yet, Weber continues to not coach to their strengths, how often do we see Leonard at the top of the key or out of the paint setting screens? I don't remember Zeller hanging out much around the perimeter the other night.

[SouthSideRyan]

In non-Indiana/Illinois news, this ranking system from ESPN seems to have some promise. Similar to Pomeroy but removes some of the flaws by capping blowout margins, giving credit for winning a game and de-weighting games played without key players.

 

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7561413/bpi-college-basketball-power-index-explained

 

Not trying to make this about IU, but I was just thinking the other night how IU went 2-0 without Elston, 4-1 without Sheehey, and are now 2-0 without Jones. Those wins included over UK (no Elston), over Ohio St and Michigan (no Sheehey), and the last 2 over Purdue (road) and Illinois with out Jones. Of course, they lost 5 of 7 with all of them healthy during conference season.

 

2 of those guys are terrible.

[CubColtPacer]

Why do people always site or come up with that [expletive], bs, lame "elite" argument when discussing expectations for Illinois basketball? It is such a load of nonsense, I expect Illinois to be a NCAA team almost every season, there's no reason they shouldn't with Chicago as a recruiting area. A program doesn't have to be "elite" for that to happen, did Arkansas, Maryland or Florida make sure to check if they were an "elite" program before winning the tournament?

 

the talent on the current roster is enough to win the big ten, this year and next year. if we replace the coach, next year could happen.

 

I would agree, although to be fair there are probably 5 schools that could make that claim based on talent (Ohio State, Michigan State, Michigan, Indiana, Illinois). The key for Illinois will be keeping Leonard. With him, they have just as much talent as the other four. Without him and they're clearly behind (the same is true to a lesser extent with Ohio State)

 

The Big 10 is going to be so loaded next year. Most of the top schools have very few seniors, and a few of them have great recruiting classes coming in to add to the talent.

[Magnetic Curses]

Why do people always site or come up with that [expletive], bs, lame "elite" argument when discussing expectations for Illinois basketball? It is such a load of nonsense, I expect Illinois to be a NCAA team almost every season, there's no reason they shouldn't with Chicago as a recruiting area. A program doesn't have to be "elite" for that to happen, did Arkansas, Maryland or Florida make sure to check if they were an "elite" program before winning the tournament?

 

the talent on the current roster is enough to win the big ten, this year and next year. if we replace the coach, next year could happen.

 

I would agree, although to be fair there are probably 5 schools that could make that claim based on talent (Ohio State, Michigan State, Michigan, Indiana, Illinois). The key for Illinois will be keeping Leonard. With him, they have just as much talent as the other four. Without him and they're clearly behind (the same is true to a lesser extent with Ohio State)

 

The Big 10 is going to be so loaded next year. Most of the top schools have very few seniors, and a few of them have great recruiting classes coming in to add to the talent.

 

i disagree, i think they'll have a legit btpoy contender as well as plenty of talent to surround him with.

[illiniguy]

Our roster is so loaded. Other teams have no idea how good Shaw and Henry are. Just like Leonard and Bertrand last year, they're freshman. Bruce doesn't do freshman unless he has to.

[Guest]

Baylor has twice as many offensive rebounds as Mizzou does total rebounds, and somehow still trails by 4.

[Formerly Snayke]

I'm guessing this will be what it's like two weeks from now in Lawrence only KU will be unstoppably hot.

[UMFan83]

Is it just me or does it feel like some combination of Kansas, Baylor and Missouri are playing each other every other day.

[Guest]

Is it just me or does it feel like some combination of Kansas, Baylor and Missouri are playing each other every other day.

 

This is the 3rd matchup between them in 8 days, so you're not wrong, really. Mizzou's trip to Kansas in a couple weeks is the last game between them until tournament time.

[kujay]

How is Baylor still in the top 10?

[Guest]

They only had 2 losses in the last poll. They won't be there come Monday.