2011 College Football Offseason

[TheVolCub08]

Oversigning is probably the mot reprehensible thing that goes on in NCAA because they pull the rug right under kids trying to finish their degrees and basically not allow them to graduate because they want to try a freshman out.

 

I'd rather they outright pay player than pull [expletive] like this. [expletive] horrible.

 

Could you imagine being some 18-year-old kid who's getting ready to move into the dorm and then being told you couldn't move in, and that your scholarship wasn't being offered to you anymore? Yeah, that's some [expletive] and something has to be done about it.

 

Sounds like Big Slick has a bigger problem with the upper classmen having their schollies taken away, which I have absolutely no issues with. They are year-to-year grants in aid that are based on athletic ability, and if you're not good enough to maintain one, I don't see why any coach should be forced to keep offering them to you.

 

However, I do think that if a coach signs more freshmen than he can feasibly get into school, he should face some sort of penalty for it. Not exactly sure what would be fair, but I agree that coaches who sign freshmen and then make them greyshirt or something else are reprehensible. I'd love to see the NCAA step in and set firm rules on this and punish offending institutions (by taking away one scholarship per oversigning?)

'TheVolCub08', seriously ? With a name like that? You're making it too easy for me.

 

Yes scholarships are technically year-to-year grants but they have been used as de facto 4 year scholarships for athletes since the beginning of time. The only reason they aren't 4 year deals are for letting someone go when they do something reprehensible. Cutting them off a kid's lifeblood when he's a year away from his degree so you can try some new talent that might not make the team don't seem all that right. I can't believe your so cynical as to forget that the reason why these kids go to school (ostensibly) is to earn degrees. Enough of them don't get them anyway, we need to encourage even fewer?

 

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=5926193

 

I cannot believe that you're naive enough to think that what "doesn't seem right" matters at all in major college athletics in 2010, at least in terms of how that applies to "student-athletes."

 

Be clear here... I'm not arguing that the system is anything other than totally flawed. But, if the NCAA is going to allow its athletics to be run like a minor league, then I'm not at all going to begrudge teams for doing so. Anyone who believes the notion that most of these kids are students first is simply fooling themselves... or a fan of Northwestern. And anyone who thinks that the vast majority of these blue chip athletes want to be treated as students first has virtually zero idea what these kids are actually going to school for.

 

It's not right. But it is what it is.

[TheVolCub08]

Hahahaaha, hosak complaining about other people's sanctimonious whining.

 

Hahahahahahah... SSR stalking me. Imagine that.

[Guest]

I'm not saying that I agree with the system, but it is what it is. The teams who win and will continue to win are the ones who understand the system and play to it. You may not like it, but it's 100% true. If you think it's a corrupt system, so be it. Once the NCAA agrees and does something to stop it, you will have a valid complaint. Until then, it's really just a bunch of sanctimonious whining.

 

What type of anti-logic is this? "Until the problem you complain about is solved, you're just whiners. Once they fix it, then your point is valid."

 

And besides, in your previous post you said you had "absolutely no issues" with it. There's a huge gulf between "college football players are employees working yearly contracts" and "don't pull the rug out on the 55 doctors and lawyers on each college football team's roster".

[SpongeWorthy]

Someone still needs to explain to me the material difference between a student being pulled from academic scholarship for failing academically and a football player being pulled from athletic scholarship for failing athletically and why the former is ok and the latter should outrage me.

[TruffleShuffle]

Ohio State does not care if Pryor graduates [expletive] Laude, or if he graduates at all. They care if he wins games and puts butts in the seats and dollars in the bank. And Terrelle Pryor did not choose Ohio State because of a single class, major, or professor on that campus. He chose OSU for Saturdays and for a potential career in the NFL. To believe otherwise is incredibly naive.

 

so you use the #1 recruit in the country that year, a guy who has probably been professional since he was like 12, to back up what you're saying? great.

 

"barack obama became president of the united states, looks like we can put the whole inequality and race relations thing to bed now."

[Guest]

I'm not super familiar with the athletic scholarship agreement, but I don't think it's made explicitly clear that athletic scholarships will be revoked if athletic performance is not held to a specific level(especially a specific level relative to their potential teammates). That expectation is explicitly spelled out for academic scholarships.

[TheVolCub08]

I'm not saying that I agree with the system, but it is what it is. The teams who win and will continue to win are the ones who understand the system and play to it. You may not like it, but it's 100% true. If you think it's a corrupt system, so be it. Once the NCAA agrees and does something to stop it, you will have a valid complaint. Until then, it's really just a bunch of sanctimonious whining.

 

What type of anti-logic is this? "Until the problem you complain about is solved, you're just whiners. Once they fix it, then your point is valid."

 

And besides, in your previous post you said you had "absolutely no issues" with it. There's a huge gulf between "college football players are employees working yearly contracts" and "don't pull the rug out on the 55 doctors and lawyers on each college football team's roster".

 

I sincerely hope this is a troll. If not, this has to go down as one of the worst posts in internet message board history.

 

Vandy, Duke, Baylor, Northwestern, possibly Stanford. Those are the 5 BCS conference schools that come anywhere close to having 55 scholarship athletes who will go on to careers like you've suggested. Those are also schools where scholarships would not ever be pulled due to performance on the field. It's not even close to reality. Not even in the neighborhood.

[TheVolCub08]

I'm not super familiar with the athletic scholarship agreement, but I don't think it's made explicitly clear that athletic scholarships will be revoked if athletic performance is not held to a specific level(especially a specific level relative to their potential teammates). That expectation is explicitly spelled out for academic scholarships.

 

They are not revoked. They are simply not renewed. Big difference.

[SpongeWorthy]

That's probably because it would be near impossible to quantify.

 

If I got a music scholarship and it turned out I couldn't play the notes properly I don't think I'd have a reasonable expectation for staying on scholarship either. These blue chip recruits are majoring in football. The academics are a facade so they can keep their cartel operating.

[TheVolCub08]

Ohio State does not care if Pryor graduates [expletive] Laude, or if he graduates at all. They care if he wins games and puts butts in the seats and dollars in the bank. And Terrelle Pryor did not choose Ohio State because of a single class, major, or professor on that campus. He chose OSU for Saturdays and for a potential career in the NFL. To believe otherwise is incredibly naive.

 

so you use the #1 recruit in the country that year, a guy who has probably been professional since he was like 12, to back up what you're saying? great.

 

"barack obama became president of the united states, looks like we can put the whole inequality and race relations thing to bed now."

 

I used him because he is a B1G athlete. Had to take away that "of course that's true of , because he's in the SEC."

[SouthSideRyan]

There are set standards that somebody on academic scholarship needs to meet to maintain their scholarship. If you take the football players to be majoring in football, they lose their scholarship, and can't immediately continue their "studies", unlike an engineering student who loses their scholarship

[SpongeWorthy]

Why is that?

 

I thought those guys who get their football scholies pulled can still in stay in school? If they can't, then yeah, I totally agree that's wrong. If they get to stay in school, but have to make up pay for the rest of their degree in some fashion, well I don' see that as that big an issue.

[Guest]

I'm not saying that I agree with the system, but it is what it is. The teams who win and will continue to win are the ones who understand the system and play to it. You may not like it, but it's 100% true. If you think it's a corrupt system, so be it. Once the NCAA agrees and does something to stop it, you will have a valid complaint. Until then, it's really just a bunch of sanctimonious whining.

 

What type of anti-logic is this? "Until the problem you complain about is solved, you're just whiners. Once they fix it, then your point is valid."

 

And besides, in your previous post you said you had "absolutely no issues" with it. There's a huge gulf between "college football players are employees working yearly contracts" and "don't pull the rug out on the 55 doctors and lawyers on each college football team's roster".

 

I sincerely hope this is a troll. If not, this has to go down as one of the worst posts in internet message board history.

 

Vandy, Duke, Baylor, Northwestern, possibly Stanford. Those are the 5 BCS conference schools that come anywhere close to having 55 scholarship athletes who will go on to careers like you've suggested. Those are also schools where scholarships would not ever be pulled due to performance on the field. It's not even close to reality. Not even in the neighborhood.

 

This too, is amazing.

[TheVolCub08]

And here's a serious question for those of you who are so upset by schools not keeping kids on scholarship for 4 years...

 

Why should a school honor a grant-in-aid for 4 years if the student athlete is not required to do so? Why should guys like Greg Oden and John Wall and Beanie Wells get to leave without honoring the grant-in-aid for 4 years? Where is the indignation over these "students" who use schools just to get to a professional league and not come anywhere close to earning a degree? And why is what is good for the goose not good for the gander?

[SouthSideRyan]

Why is that?

 

I thought those guys who get their football scholies pulled can still in stay in school? If they can't, then yeah, I totally agree that's wrong. If they get to stay in school, but have to make up pay for the rest of their degree in some fashion, well I don' see that as that big an issue.

 

Sorry, by "studies" I meant football. My understanding is you get your scholarship revoked, and you can't go play at another d1 school for a year. An engineering student loses their scholarship, they're still majoring in engineering

[mul21]

And here's a serious question for those of you who are so upset by schools not keeping kids on scholarship for 4 years...

 

Why should a school honor a grant-in-aid for 4 years if the student athlete is not required to do so? Why should guys like Greg Oden and John Wall and Beanie Wells get to leave without honoring the grant-in-aid for 4 years? Where is the indignation over these "students" who use schools just to get to a professional league and not come anywhere close to earning a degree? And why is what is good for the goose not good for the gander?

 

 

Because they are required by the leagues they aspire to be in to spend a certain amount of time "somewhere" prior to becoming eligible to be drafted into those leagues. College is the best/easiest route. Plus, the college can replace that guy with a new one and keep the money train rolling.

[Guest]

If Beanie Wells goes pro, then his scholarship can be used for someone else next year. Like SSR mentioned, it's a lot more difficult for a guy to move on to another school for a similar opportunity if he loses his scholarship. Football teams don't have contingency issues for early entries because of roster size and the rules that force them to be there for 3 years.

[TheVolCub08]

And here's a serious question for those of you who are so upset by schools not keeping kids on scholarship for 4 years...

 

Why should a school honor a grant-in-aid for 4 years if the student athlete is not required to do so? Why should guys like Greg Oden and John Wall and Beanie Wells get to leave without honoring the grant-in-aid for 4 years? Where is the indignation over these "students" who use schools just to get to a professional league and not come anywhere close to earning a degree? And why is what is good for the goose not good for the gander?

 

 

Because they are required by the leagues they aspire to be in to spend a certain amount of time "somewhere" prior to becoming eligible to be drafted into those leagues. College is the best/easiest route. Plus, the college can replace that guy with a new one and keep the money train rolling.

 

And a guy who loses his athletic scholarship because he's not good enough to maintain it is somehow banned from continuing to attend that institution or some other to finish his degree?

[TheVolCub08]

If Beanie Wells goes pro, then his scholarship can be used for someone else next year. Like SSR mentioned, it's a lot more difficult for a guy to move on to another school for a similar opportunity. Football teams don't have contingency issues for early entries because of roster size and the rules that force them to be there for 3 years.

 

Sure, it's easier for he school than the player, but using the term "a lot" is probably overstated.

 

1. It's incredibly easy for players not good enough to compete at a BCS level to transfer down into a smaller school, so long as the grades are there.

 

2. With the APR now in place, schools are actually punished for guys leaving early, and some have scholarship numbers reduced. That adds a potential handicap to schools.

[Keener98]

Hahahaaha, hosak complaining about other people's sanctimonious whining.

 

Hahahahahahah... SSR stalking me. Imagine that.

 

So you do in fact admit that you are Hosak? Hmmmmmm

[snoodmonger]

i really think that the assistant they're talking about is Bollweevil Banks or maybe Grain Silo Guilford.

 

 

lmao

 

ETA: LMAO at the beating volcub is taking here, too

[NewUserName]

i really think that the assistant they're talking about is Bollweevil Banks or maybe Grain Silo Guilford.

 

 

lmao

 

ETA: LMAO at the beating volcub is taking here, too

 

I have to give VolCub credit, he is taking an unpopular stance on an issue and sticking to his guns. Of course if he was a fan of a school who did not do this kind of thing, my guess is he would not be of the same opinion.

[Tracer Bullet]

Someone still needs to explain to me the material difference between a student being pulled from academic scholarship for failing academically and a football player being pulled from athletic scholarship for failing athletically and why the former is ok and the latter should outrage me.

 

how do you know when you've failed athletically? when a better player passes you on the depth chart? I mean, I don't lose my academic scholarship if I'm still performing very well but there's another person also performing well. but if i'm a 5-star RB and my school brings in 2 more 5-star RBs and wants to put them on the field before me, I'm suddenly not holding up my end of the bargain? I'm still awesome and would start for most schools, but you've buried me on the bench by bringing in better players at my position and likely killed any chance I have of making it in the NFL. And since 50% of black football players will actually graduate from most schools, you're not educating me either. So you're just making money off me while I'm useful to you and then discarding me when the next hot thing comes along.

 

You really don't see a difference? they're 2 very different things, imo.

[fiver]

dammit shnsajax..Mack Brown is now trying to pilfer Tommy Thigpen, our safeties coach. To be fair, Thigpen's relationship with Brown precedes Thigpen's employment at AU, but it does seem that Texas has tried to hire an AU coach for pretty much every opening they've had since 2005.

 

edit - if Thigpen does leave for Texas, we'll probably target Grainsilo Guilford.

[shnsajax]

dammit shnsajax..Mack Brown is now trying to pilfer Tommy Thigpen, our safeties coach. To be fair, Thigpen's relationship with Brown precedes Thigpen's employment at AU, but it does seem that Texas has tried to hire an AU coach for pretty much every opening they've had since 2005.

 

edit - if Thigpen does leave for Texas, we'll probably target Grainsilo Guilford.

 

Hmm, he is not the 1st choice that I would have thought of. I have heard this morning that Akina is actually on his way back to Texas already.