Pujols signs with Angels pg 151

[El Duderino]

i'm sure cards fans are producing their angry hitler videos as we speak.

[XZero771679666304]

So has anyone collected any Cards fan reactions?

 

http://gatewayredbirds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=48147

[ctcf]

So has anyone collected any Cards fan reactions?

 

http://gatewayredbirds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=48147

 

Damn, that ended up being surprisingly well measured and depressing.

 

Also, reading that forum is like being in some kind of NSBB Bizarro-World

[NonProfitCow]

well, now they're complaining about large markets and how the system is broken

[Hairyducked Idiot]

well, now they're complaining about large markets and how the system is broken

 

I don't think they realize that a salary cap and severe revenue sharing would have hurt them even more.

[A New Era]

I don't remember where I saw it, here or at BN. But there was a video before Pujols signed that was a pre-emptive "I'll remember you" song to Pujols clips. I think it was officially from someone at ESPN or something.

 

Has anyone seen it?

[Formerly Snayke]

well, now they're complaining about large markets and how the system is broken

 

My Facebook feed was blowing up with people apoplectic about the whole thing. Everything was mostly along the lines of "YOU SOLD OUT! YOU ONLY DID IT FOR THE MONEY!" Umm, yeah?

 

I dunno. I can't get too upset about it. We saw his best years and got two championships out of it. Now they clear his money and can address multiple needs.

[Clem Fandango]

Albert took the money the Cardinals SHOULD HAVE paid him, but they didn't because they don't understand that they just got the greatest player on the planet for the previous 10 years at $100 million.

 

Albert already gave the Cardinals a hometown discount by being insanely cheap for his production value during his entire tenure in St. Louis. You wanna miss out on one of the greatest players to play the game over $50 million? So be it.

 

Albert probably won't be worth it by the end of that contract for the Angels, but even if the same situation happened in St. Louis, he'd still be eternally loved and revered because of who he is and what he represents to that team. They're fools for letting him go.

 

You don't like paying him that much in his twilight years? Well guess what, you got 10 years to plan a team to build around him (and to do it through the draft so his supporting cast isn't expensive) when the time comes so his contract doesn't make the overall payroll bloat, buuuuut you wanted to save a little extra coin. And you lost. Smooth.

 

I think the Cardinals are idiots for not ponying up the dough. He deserved it after playing well below his market value for 10 years in that city.

[Pushfrog98]

A friend of mine (who is an extreme mathematician/stats guy) posted this in a note... makes you wonder. My boss thinks that there was something going on behind the scenes and that Pujols and Cardinals ownership/upper management didn't get along as well as it seemed, especially after seeing Holiday get his contract.

 

Typing in the 210 million the Cards offered into the "Cost of Living Wizard" at Salary.com, it says word-for-word: "The cost of living in Anaheim, CA is 31.9% higher than in St. Louis, MO. Therefore, you would have to earn a salary of $277,084,723 to maintain your current standard of living."

 

Albert didn't hit 277 - he settled for $254 mil in Anaheim. Doing the reverse calculation with the Anaheim dollars, you get $192,504,298 St. Louis dollars. But the Cards offered $210 mil! So Albert left more than 17 million dollars on the table from what he was already offered by the Cardinals to take off for LA.

[NonProfitCow]

A friend of mine (who is an extreme mathematician/stats guy) posted this in a note... makes you wonder. My boss thinks that there was something going on behind the scenes and that Pujols and Cardinals ownership/upper management didn't get along as well as it seemed, especially after seeing Holiday get his contract.

 

Typing in the 210 million the Cards offered into the "Cost of Living Wizard" at Salary.com, it says word-for-word: "The cost of living in Anaheim, CA is 31.9% higher than in St. Louis, MO. Therefore, you would have to earn a salary of $277,084,723 to maintain your current standard of living."

 

Albert didn't hit 277 - he settled for $254 mil in Anaheim. Doing the reverse calculation with the Anaheim dollars, you get $192,504,298 St. Louis dollars. But the Cards offered $210 mil! So Albert left more than 17 million dollars on the table from what he was already offered by the Cardinals to take off for LA.

That's assuming he's going to live in Anaheim.

[Geech]

A friend of mine (who is an extreme mathematician/stats guy) posted this in a note... makes you wonder. My boss thinks that there was something going on behind the scenes and that Pujols and Cardinals ownership/upper management didn't get along as well as it seemed, especially after seeing Holiday get his contract.

 

Typing in the 210 million the Cards offered into the "Cost of Living Wizard" at Salary.com, it says word-for-word: "The cost of living in Anaheim, CA is 31.9% higher than in St. Louis, MO. Therefore, you would have to earn a salary of $277,084,723 to maintain your current standard of living."

 

Albert didn't hit 277 - he settled for $254 mil in Anaheim. Doing the reverse calculation with the Anaheim dollars, you get $192,504,298 St. Louis dollars. But the Cards offered $210 mil! So Albert left more than 17 million dollars on the table from what he was already offered by the Cardinals to take off for LA.

 

I have a couple of reactions to that: the first is that I'm not certain that straight cost of living calculations are really valid for a professional athlete. They travel so much that their expenses are going to look a lot different than a typical person's. The second is that Albert may not necessarily be cognizant of cost of living adjustments, especially since his agent is going to be trying to sell him on the higher value deal either way.

 

It's an interesting fact, but I don't think you should read anything into it.

[Formerly Snayke]

Albert already gave the Cardinals a hometown discount by being insanely cheap for his production value during his entire tenure in St. Louis. You wanna miss out on one of the greatest players to play the game over $50 million? So be it.

 

He didn't give them a hometown discount; that was the contract he was offered and it's the contract he accepted. He wasn't forced at gunpoint to accept their deal.

 

And it's not missing out on him for $50 million. It's avoiding giving a 32-year-old almost a quarter of the team's budget.

 

Albert probably won't be worth it by the end of that contract for the Angels, but even if the same situation happened in St. Louis, he'd still be eternally loved and revered because of who he is and what he represents to that team. They're fools for letting him go.

 

No, they aren't. The Cardinals will continue to be a profitable and successful franchise without him.

 

Well guess what, you got 10 years to plan a team to build around him (and to do it through the draft so his supporting cast isn't expensive)

 

This is ridiculous.

 

when the time comes so his contract doesn't make the overall payroll bloat, buuuuut you wanted to save a little extra coin. And you lost. Smooth.

 

"A little extra"? How about saving themselves from paying Pujols $25 million into his late 30s/early 40s? That's something than a little extra.

 

St. Louis is the 25th largest media market, they have likely maximized where they can grow revenue and the owners paid for the stadium. This is not a franchise that can afford legacy contracts.

 

I think the Cardinals are idiots for not ponying up the dough. He deserved it after playing well below his market value for 10 years in that city.

 

Again, he didn't have to do that. And he sure didn't accept the deal out of the goodness of his heart, either.

[NonProfitCow]

Albert took the money the Cardinals SHOULD HAVE paid him, but they didn't because they don't understand that they just got the greatest player on the planet for the previous 10 years at $100 million.

The Cardinals and Pujols both did what they should have. The Cardinals went as far as they thought they could go without dragging the franchise down and made a very competitive offer. Anaheim straight blew it away.

 

Albert already gave the Cardinals a hometown discount by being insanely cheap for his production value during his entire tenure in St. Louis. You wanna miss out on one of the greatest players to play the game over $50 million? So be it.

He didn't give them any sort of discount. At the time his contract was the largest ever for a first year arbitration eligible player and one of the biggest contracts in MLB. He outproduced the contract, but he did not sign for a discount.

 

Albert probably won't be worth it by the end of that contract for the Angels, but even if the same situation happened in St. Louis, he'd still be eternally loved and revered because of who he is and what he represents to that team. They're fools for letting him go.

 

You don't like paying him that much in his twilight years? Well guess what, you got 10 years to plan a team to build around him (and to do it through the draft so his supporting cast isn't expensive) when the time comes so his contract doesn't make the overall payroll bloat, buuuuut you wanted to save a little extra coin. And you lost. Smooth.

Sure, it will look bad for the next 4-5 years, then it won't look so bad and then it will look smart. That's the way it goes signing a 32 year old to a 10 year contract. Take a look at ARod. I personally think Pujols will come fairly close to the value of the contract, but all it takes is one injury to turn gradual decline into aggressive decline and you have an all time albatross on your hands.

 

I think the Cardinals are idiots for not ponying up the dough. He deserved it after playing well below his market value for 10 years in that city.

That's not how it works. He deserved 116 million dollars, because that is what he signed for. And anyways, he just signed a [expletive] 10 year 250 million dollar contract. He's getting the money you think he deserves. It's basically a win and a loss for everyone involved on some level.

[Omar]

So I'm assuming the Cards will put Berkman at 1B if they don't get Fielder?

[XZero771679666304]

So I'm assuming the Cards will put Berkman at 1B if they don't get Fielder?

 

 

They're not going after Fielder. Berkman will be the 1B.

[davearm2]

A friend of mine (who is an extreme mathematician/stats guy) posted this in a note... makes you wonder. My boss thinks that there was something going on behind the scenes and that Pujols and Cardinals ownership/upper management didn't get along as well as it seemed, especially after seeing Holiday get his contract.

 

Typing in the 210 million the Cards offered into the "Cost of Living Wizard" at Salary.com, it says word-for-word: "The cost of living in Anaheim, CA is 31.9% higher than in St. Louis, MO. Therefore, you would have to earn a salary of $277,084,723 to maintain your current standard of living."

 

Albert didn't hit 277 - he settled for $254 mil in Anaheim. Doing the reverse calculation with the Anaheim dollars, you get $192,504,298 St. Louis dollars. But the Cards offered $210 mil! So Albert left more than 17 million dollars on the table from what he was already offered by the Cardinals to take off for LA.

That's a terrible analysis. The majority of that money is not going to be spent at all, it'll be invested.

 

Pujols will pay $10M for a house that would have cost $2M in St Louis. The rest is just noise, at the salary levels we're talking about.

 

If a $10 carwash now costs $13, that matters when you're making $25K. It doesn't matter when you're making $25M.

[imb]

i remember how upset all those st. louis fans were when the albert signed a team friendly deal last time. PAY THE MAN WHAT HE'S WORTH, they demanded, but those scrooge mcdrunks in the front office held onto their money like misers. When the team traded for and signed matt holliday to a costly extension, they cried out, THAT SHOULD BE ALBERT'S MONEY, but those misers in the front office continued to make the team better.

[Clem Fandango]

The Cardinals pushed to 10 years and raised their offer to what, $220 million? So $22 million AAV? He's getting $25.4 million AAV in Anaheim. That's a $3.4 million difference. $3.4 million extra per year that the Cardinals would've had to pay on top of the offer they were comfortable giving him over the same amount of years.

 

Ryan Theriot cost them $3.3 million this year. If you aren't willing to make a player like Ryan Theriot, i.e. a guy in arbitration who can probably be replaced internally very easily at league minimum, a sacrificial lamb in order to accommodate arguably the greatest baseball player many of us will ever see play the game in our entire lives then you deserve to lose him.

[NonProfitCow]

The Cardinals pushed to 10 years and raised their offer to what, $220 million? So $22 million AAV? He's getting $25.4 million AAV in Anaheim. That's a $3.4 million difference. $3.4 million extra per year that the Cardinals would've had to pay on top of the offer they were comfortable giving him over the same amount of years.

 

Ryan Theriot cost them $3.3 million this year. If you aren't willing to make a player like Ryan Theriot, i.e. a guy in arbitration who can probably be replaced internally very easily at league minimum, a sacrificial lamb in order to accommodate arguably the greatest baseball player many of us will ever see play the game in our entire lives then you deserve to lose him.

That's not how it works.

[ConstableRabbit]

A friend of mine (who is an extreme mathematician/stats guy) posted this in a note... makes you wonder. My boss thinks that there was something going on behind the scenes and that Pujols and Cardinals ownership/upper management didn't get along as well as it seemed, especially after seeing Holiday get his contract.

 

Typing in the 210 million the Cards offered into the "Cost of Living Wizard" at Salary.com, it says word-for-word: "The cost of living in Anaheim, CA is 31.9% higher than in St. Louis, MO. Therefore, you would have to earn a salary of $277,084,723 to maintain your current standard of living."

 

Albert didn't hit 277 - he settled for $254 mil in Anaheim. Doing the reverse calculation with the Anaheim dollars, you get $192,504,298 St. Louis dollars. But the Cards offered $210 mil! So Albert left more than 17 million dollars on the table from what he was already offered by the Cardinals to take off for LA.

 

I have a couple of reactions to that: the first is that I'm not certain that straight cost of living calculations are really valid for a professional athlete. They travel so much that their expenses are going to look a lot different than a typical person's. The second is that Albert may not necessarily be cognizant of cost of living adjustments, especially since his agent is going to be trying to sell him on the higher value deal either way.

 

It's an interesting fact, but I don't think you should read anything into it.

Also, quality of life: Albert took 8% less to live in LA vs St. Louis. Think of it as a "shitty city tax"

[Formerly Snayke]

The Cardinals pushed to 10 years and raised their offer to what, $220 million? So $22 million AAV? He's getting $25.4 million AAV in Anaheim. That's a $3.4 million difference. $3.4 million extra per year that the Cardinals would've had to pay on top of the offer they were comfortable giving him over the same amount of years.

 

Ryan Theriot cost them $3.3 million this year. If you aren't willing to make a player like Ryan Theriot, i.e. a guy in arbitration who can probably be replaced internally very easily at league minimum, a sacrificial lamb in order to accommodate arguably the greatest baseball player many of us will ever see play the game in our entire lives then you deserve to lose him.

That's not how it works.

 

Yeah, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

 

And aside from ludicrously calling Pujols a traitor or acting like he owes something to fans, people are generally okay with him not getting a legacy deal. Pujols was [expletive] amazing in 2008. It was incredible watching him play, but it would've been more incredible watching him in the postseason.

 

Watching old, lumbering 38-year-old Pujols make $25-27 million and hit like a normal guy wouldn't be thrilling. And unless they got extremely lucky in subsequent drafts and [expletive] out valuable players like diarrhea their chances of competing would've been severely compromised because of his contract. That's the reality of being a mid-market team.

[NewUserName]

I am tiring of all the Musial references from Cardinal fans. Musial was a lifelong Card, blah blah blah. It is a terrible comparison, Musial played under the reserve clause, he had no choice but to do what the Cards wanted.

[UMFan83]

I just wonder how much money Pujols personally made for the Cardinals the last 10 years. He probably more than made up the $40 million difference and would probably have come close to that number despite declining in the later half of the

contract. The Cardinals fans act like the team isn't raking in profit year after year. Most likely they are. They could have afforded this contract IMO. How much money did they save by having Pujols on a team friendly deal the last decade? Where did that money go?

 

I personally think either the Cardinals fans are in denial or do not realize how much of an impact Albert made to the Cardinals every year. The guy wasn't just a superstar, not another Edmonds or Rolen or Holiday. He was an all time great in the making. Him being in the lineup carried some pretty mediocre offenses over the last few years. I don't think Holiday or Berkman have quite the same impact on the offense.

 

I dunno just my thoughts.

[jersey cubs fan]

I am tiring of all the Musial references from Cardinal fans. Musial was a lifelong Card, blah blah blah. It is a terrible comparison, Musial played under the reserve clause, he had no choice but to do what the Cards wanted.

 

Missourri was always sympathetic to the slave holders.

[NewUserName]

I am tiring of all the Musial references from Cardinal fans. Musial was a lifelong Card, blah blah blah. It is a terrible comparison, Musial played under the reserve clause, he had no choice but to do what the Cards wanted.

 

Missourri was always sympathetic to the slave holders.

 

I just like to mention that every WS that Musial ever won were when a large portion of able body men were fighting in WW2