Fukudome for Matsuzaka?

[Post Count Padder]

According to Phil Rogers of the Chicago Tribune, the Cubs are "kicking around the idea" of trading Kosuke Fukudome to the Red Sox for Daisuke Matsuzaka as part of a multi-player deal.

"Kicking around the idea" doesn't mean that the teams have spoken with each other, but the potential deal makes some sense on the surface. The Red Sox could use another outfielder, especially if the are unsuccessful in landing either Carl Crawford or Jayson Werth. Of course, Fukudome and Dice-K have no-trade clauses in their contracts, so they would both need to be on board with the idea. There's just no way to know if that will happen.

[Schwarber Fan]

Interesting... any chance Daisuke is a guy that would pitch better in the NL?

[daske17]

Unless Boston is kicking in a sufficient portion of Daisuke's 2012 salary, I want no part of it.

 

Despite what the Cubs see, Fukudome has value in more than a salary dump.

[Prizefight]

Unless Boston is kicking in a sufficient portion of Daisuke's 2012 salary, I want no part of it.

 

Despite what the Cubs see, Fukudome has value in more than a salary dump.

 

Agreed completely.

 

Dice K is signed through 2012 for his 6yrs/52m contract so roughly 17 million for the next two seasons. Fukudome obviously has his 4/48 through 2011 so 12. I'm definitely not eating a dime for this trade if I were the Cubs.

[jersey cubs fan]

The same people who hate Fukudome for no good reason are going to hate Matsuzaka even more. He might enjoy more success in the NL, but this just makes the offense worse without really improving the pitching staff.

 

 

I'd rather take back Drew.

[KingCubsFan]

Is it safe to say the obsession this offseason will be mediocre veteran starting pitchers?

[UMFan83]

The same people who hate Fukudome for no good reason are going to hate Matsuzaka even more. He might enjoy more success in the NL, but this just makes the offense worse without really improving the pitching staff.

 

 

I'd rather take back Drew.

 

If you assume that Fukudome is gone no matter what, and you have seen some of the garbage Hendry has gotten in return for his salary dumps (Izturis, DeWitt, Silva, Hairston), you could definitely do worse than Dice K. That said, I'm in the camp that wouldnt take on a dime of salary in the trade. If they want to eat $12 million over 2 years to make the deal I'm willing to see what upside he has in the NL. Obviously there are significant risks (Injuries, inconsistency, general fatigue, etc) but I think he's got the kind of upside we aren't going to find much of in a Fukudome trade.

[Outshined_One]

I'm vaguely interested if he has a clean bill of health. He's cheaper than Fukudome next season and a change of scenery might help his performance. I wouldn't do it straight up; I'd want the Red Sox to kick in cash or prospects to help offset the $10m Daisuke will be making in 2012.

 

With the rumors going around about the Cubs potentially kicking the tires on starting pitchers, I'm guessing we'll see someone like Carlos Silva shipped out.

[Backtobanks]

The same people who hate Fukudome for no good reason are going to hate Matsuzaka even more. He might enjoy more success in the NL, but this just makes the offense worse without really improving the pitching staff.

 

 

I'd rather take back Drew.

 

If you assume that Fukudome is gone no matter what, and you have seen some of the garbage Hendry has gotten in return for his salary dumps (Izturis, DeWitt, Silva, Hairston), you could definitely do worse than Dice K. That said, I'm in the camp that wouldnt take on a dime of salary in the trade. If they want to eat $12 million over 2 years to make the deal I'm willing to see what upside he has in the NL. Obviously there are significant risks (Injuries, inconsistency, general fatigue, etc) but I think he's got the kind of upside we aren't going to find much of in a Fukudome trade.

 

 

I certainly don't agree with you lumping all of that garbage in the same sentence. Posters were clamoring to get rid of Theriot and getting Dewitt seems like a good deal. As for dumping Bradley to get Silva (plus the money for Byrd), that definitely has to go in the plus column for Hendry.

[SouthSideRyan]

Is it safe to say the obsession this offseason will be mediocre veteran starting pitchers?

 

Remove the word starting

[Cubs Fan Dan]

I do not put stock into anything Phil Rogers writes. But I would be interested to see who else is involved if this is a multiplayer deal.

[UMFan83]

The same people who hate Fukudome for no good reason are going to hate Matsuzaka even more. He might enjoy more success in the NL, but this just makes the offense worse without really improving the pitching staff.

 

 

I'd rather take back Drew.

 

If you assume that Fukudome is gone no matter what, and you have seen some of the garbage Hendry has gotten in return for his salary dumps (Izturis, DeWitt, Silva, Hairston), you could definitely do worse than Dice K. That said, I'm in the camp that wouldnt take on a dime of salary in the trade. If they want to eat $12 million over 2 years to make the deal I'm willing to see what upside he has in the NL. Obviously there are significant risks (Injuries, inconsistency, general fatigue, etc) but I think he's got the kind of upside we aren't going to find much of in a Fukudome trade.

 

 

I certainly don't agree with you lumping all of that garbage in the same sentence. Posters were clamoring to get rid of Theriot and getting Dewitt seems like a good deal. As for dumping Bradley to get Silva (plus the money for Byrd), that definitely has to go in the plus column for Hendry.

 

The trade wasn't Theriot for Dewitt though.

[Southpaw191679666239]

Gammons just show this down via Twitter.

[Backtobanks]

The same people who hate Fukudome for no good reason are going to hate Matsuzaka even more. He might enjoy more success in the NL, but this just makes the offense worse without really improving the pitching staff.

 

 

I'd rather take back Drew.

 

If you assume that Fukudome is gone no matter what, and you have seen some of the garbage Hendry has gotten in return for his salary dumps (Izturis, DeWitt, Silva, Hairston), you could definitely do worse than Dice K. That said, I'm in the camp that wouldnt take on a dime of salary in the trade. If they want to eat $12 million over 2 years to make the deal I'm willing to see what upside he has in the NL. Obviously there are significant risks (Injuries, inconsistency, general fatigue, etc) but I think he's got the kind of upside we aren't going to find much of in a Fukudome trade.

 

 

I certainly don't agree with you lumping all of that garbage in the same sentence. Posters were clamoring to get rid of Theriot and getting Dewitt seems like a good deal. As for dumping Bradley to get Silva (plus the money for Byrd), that definitely has to go in the plus column for Hendry.

 

The trade wasn't Theriot for Dewitt though.

 

I guess I forgot that it was Lilly plus Theriot for Dewitt plus two decent pitching prospects, but I would still consider it a decent trade considering it was a salary dump from a team with a losing record.

[javy knows my name]

The same people who hate Fukudome for no good reason are going to hate Matsuzaka even more. He might enjoy more success in the NL, but this just makes the offense worse without really improving the pitching staff.

 

 

I'd rather take back Drew.

 

If you assume that Fukudome is gone no matter what, and you have seen some of the garbage Hendry has gotten in return for his salary dumps (Izturis, DeWitt, Silva, Hairston), you could definitely do worse than Dice K. That said, I'm in the camp that wouldnt take on a dime of salary in the trade. If they want to eat $12 million over 2 years to make the deal I'm willing to see what upside he has in the NL. Obviously there are significant risks (Injuries, inconsistency, general fatigue, etc) but I think he's got the kind of upside we aren't going to find much of in a Fukudome trade.

 

 

I certainly don't agree with you lumping all of that garbage in the same sentence. Posters were clamoring to get rid of Theriot and getting Dewitt seems like a good deal. As for dumping Bradley to get Silva (plus the money for Byrd), that definitely has to go in the plus column for Hendry.

 

The trade wasn't Theriot for Dewitt though.

I was fairly sure that conventional wisdom said the trade worked out as Lilly for the prospects and Theriot for Dewitt more or less straight-up

[Outshined_One]

Gammons just show this down via Twitter.

 

Even if Cubs proposed it, Red Sox wouldn't consider it

 

Ouch.

[daske17]

Phil continues to astound with his penchant for awful ideas.

 

The highlights:

 

Matsuzaka probably only makes sense for the Cubs if they can move Carlos Zambrano, either to the Red Sox in a multi-player package, in a three-team deal involving the Red Sox or a separate deal with another team, like the Mets. The pieces of such a deal could become very, very intriguing, according to a source, with parts like Jonathan Papelbon, Daniel Bard, Carlos Marmol, Sean Marshall and Kosuke Fukudome potentially in play, possibly even Aramis Ramirez if the Red Sox let Adrian Beltre get away (which seems unlikely).

 

Even if the Cubs sent along some cash, it would create significant payroll flexibility to facilitate the signing of a first baseman for two or three years (Adam Dunn, Lance Berkman or even Paul Konerko).

 

Matsuzaka would be as good of a bet as being a solid No. 2 behind Ryan Dempster as Zambrano. He was 9-4 with a 4.69 ERA last season, and while his lack of command lingers as a potential problem would benefit from a move to the National League, perhaps even cutting a full run off that ERA. He's also a buzz guy who would be fun to have around, and the Cubs are currently suffering from a conspicuous lack of buzz.

[rawaction]

So, the Cubs could lose their 2 best bullpen arms, 2 of their top 3 hitters, their best starting pitcher and actually get OLDER (along with being clearly a worse team) by getting the likes of Dice-K, Papelbon, and signing Konerko.

[SouthSideRyan]

You're discounting the buzz factor.

[dew1679666265]

The trade wasn't Theriot for Dewitt though.

 

DeWitt is an upgrade over Theriot. The key to whether the trade was good is how the two prospects develop. If they become good major leaguers, it was a good deal. If they flame out, it was a poor trade.

 

And so far, as has been said, the Bradley for Silva deal has had good results. The trade may have been a bad idea, but it's worked out so far.

[jersey cubs fan]

The trade wasn't Theriot for Dewitt though.

 

DeWitt is an upgrade over Theriot. The key to whether the trade was good is how the two prospects develop. If they become good major leaguers, it was a good deal. If they flame out, it was a poor trade.

 

And so far, as has been said, the Bradley for Silva deal has had good results. The trade may have been a bad idea, but it's worked out so far.

 

not really. They've got a fat heartcase on their hands that can't be counted on for anything but almost has to be given a spot.

[Backtobanks]

The trade wasn't Theriot for Dewitt though.

 

DeWitt is an upgrade over Theriot. The key to whether the trade was good is how the two prospects develop. If they become good major leaguers, it was a good deal. If they flame out, it was a poor trade.

 

And so far, as has been said, the Bradley for Silva deal has had good results. The trade may have been a bad idea, but it's worked out so far.

 

not really. They've got a fat heartcase on their hands that can't be counted on for anything but almost has to be given a spot.

 

Silva certainly contributed more than Bradley would have in 2010 and with the extra money they signed Byrd. I don't know how anyone can knock that deal. As for 2011, we will have to see what happens.

[jersey cubs fan]

The trade wasn't Theriot for Dewitt though.

 

DeWitt is an upgrade over Theriot. The key to whether the trade was good is how the two prospects develop. If they become good major leaguers, it was a good deal. If they flame out, it was a poor trade.

 

And so far, as has been said, the Bradley for Silva deal has had good results. The trade may have been a bad idea, but it's worked out so far.

 

not really. They've got a fat heartcase on their hands that can't be counted on for anything but almost has to be given a spot.

 

Silva certainly contributed more than Bradley would have in 2010 and with the extra money they signed Byrd. I don't know how anyone can knock that deal. As for 2011, we will have to see what happens.

 

I don't know how anybody can give "points" to Hendry for the deal. He put himself in a crappy situation. There aren't points awarded for theoretical wins based on deals. The Cubs have a fat heartcase on the roster with a ridiculously inconsistent track record. They didn't win anything.

[rawaction]

 

I don't know how anybody can give "points" to Hendry for the deal. He put himself in a crappy situation. There aren't points awarded for theoretical wins based on deals. The Cubs have a fat heartcase on the roster with a ridiculously inconsistent track record. They didn't win anything.

 

Heartcase vs. Headcase. Heartcase was better last year than the headcase. Of course, the problem was giving the headcase a 3-year multi-million dollar deal in the first place. But to be fair, most of us were OK with the deal.

[dew1679666265]

not really. They've got a fat heartcase on their hands that can't be counted on for anything but almost has to be given a spot.

 

My point was, the Cubs got better production from Silva last year than Bradley produced. Thus, the results of the trade were good to this point. Now if Silva reverts to being crappy or if he's too injured to pitch but we still have to pay him, then that changes the view on the trade.

 

To this point, however, it was a good deal even if the signing of Bradley should never have taken place. If Silva comes in this year and posts another 3.90 xFIP like last year and the Cubs let him walk, then it's a great deal. It was a bad idea at the time, but whether from blind luck or from Rothschild fixing a flaw that nobody else caught the results have been positive so far. Whether or not you want to assign "points" to somebody for that is your prerogative, but I'm simply stating the results from the trade have been positive.