College Basketball 2010-11

Formerly Snayke · March 16, 2010

Who do you guys lose? Tiller, Taylor, and Ramsey? That's a lot of minutes.

Pressey and Mitchell will be big talent upgrades though.

Yup. Dixon is going to be better than Tiller and Taylor, though he won't have Tiller's defensive prowess. That will hurt some.

CubbieBum · March 16, 2010

All time? I think so.
Since conference play standardized in 1939 (i.e. the NCAA tournament came into being), Purdue has finished ahead of Illinois 35 times. Illinois has finished ahead of Purdue 34 times.

So Purdue has finished ahead of Illinois more times than not? Thanks for clearing that up.

illiniguy · March 16, 2010

All time? I think so.
Since conference play standardized in 1939 (i.e. the NCAA tournament came into being), Purdue has finished ahead of Illinois 35 times. Illinois has finished ahead of Purdue 34 times.

So Purdue has finished ahead of Illinois more times than not? Thanks for clearing that up.

Yep, after doing it this year. Man by one year. I guess that makes you the best program of all time. Or at least in the top two.

Smack · March 16, 2010

All time? I think so.
Since conference play standardized in 1939 (i.e. the NCAA tournament came into being), Purdue has finished ahead of Illinois 35 times. Illinois has finished ahead of Purdue 34 times.

So Purdue has finished ahead of Illinois more times than not? Thanks for clearing that up.
Yep, after doing it this year. Man by one year. I guess that makes you the best program of all time. Or at least in the top two.

The point is that Illinois fans are trying to come off as elitist. Y'know, us Purdue fans are a bunch of upstarts with no tradition. Congratulations you got to a national championship game, and lost.

As for Purdue versus Illinois in the Big Ten standings. Last five years Purdue has finished ahead twice and Illinois once, with two ties. Last ten years Illinois is ahead six to two (plus the two ties). Last fifteen years and Illinois is ahead seven to six (plus the two ties). Last sixteen years, it's even at seven each, and the two ties. It's freaking cyclical (35 to 34 all-time even). Illinois hasn't finished ahead since 05'-06'. Before that, Illinois finished ahead six consecutive times (ending in 05'-06'). Before that Purdue finished ahead of Illinois six years out of seven. Purdue has been the better team over the last few years and Illinois fans are clinging to the success of the first half of the 2000's. It's like Purdue's teams never did well under Keady (or before).

Neither school has had the long-term success of IU or the short-term success of Michigan State. We're at about the same level.

illiniguy · March 16, 2010

All time? I think so.
Since conference play standardized in 1939 (i.e. the NCAA tournament came into being), Purdue has finished ahead of Illinois 35 times. Illinois has finished ahead of Purdue 34 times.

So Purdue has finished ahead of Illinois more times than not? Thanks for clearing that up.
Yep, after doing it this year. Man by one year. I guess that makes you the best program of all time. Or at least in the top two.

The point is that Illinois fans are trying to come off as elitist. Y'know, us Purdue fans are a bunch of upstarts with no tradition. Congratulations you got to a national championship game, and lost.

As for Purdue versus Illinois in the Big Ten standings. Last five years Purdue has finished ahead twice and Illinois once, with two ties. Last ten years Illinois is ahead six to two (plus the two ties). Last fifteen years and Illinois is ahead seven to six (plus the two ties). Last sixteen years, it's even at seven each, and the two ties. It's freaking cyclical (35 to 34 all-time even). Illinois hasn't finished ahead since 05'-06'. Before that, Illinois finished ahead six consecutive times (ending in 05'-06'). Before that Purdue finished ahead of Illinois six years out of seven. Purdue has been the better team over the last few years and Illinois fans are clinging to the success of the first half of the 2000's. It's like Purdue's teams never did well under Keady (or before).

Neither school has had the long-term success of IU or the short-term success of Michigan State. We're at about the same level.

What about final fours? Those are a pretty big barometer of a programs success. Plus Bum is the one who said one program was way ahead of the other.

Smack · March 16, 2010

Look, you can come up with stats all day long trying to make Illinois look better and I can do the same trying to make Purdue look better.

We're both currently living in the shadow of Michigan State and Ohio State. They continue to out-perform and out-recruit us on a regular basis. I do understand your angst in regard to the NC game though. I'll be feeling that angst about this season for a long time. Hummel doesn't go down and we likely beat MSU, win the Big Ten outright, and possibly end up ranked #1 in the country (#1-3 went down that weekend). Oh and we would've had a #1 seed with the Final Four an hour from home. Yeah, the end of this season is a bitter pill to swallow.

illiniguy · March 16, 2010

Look, you can come up with stats all day long trying to make Illinois look better and I can do the same trying to make Purdue look better.

We're both currently living in the shadow of Michigan State and Ohio State. They continue to out-perform and out-recruit us on a regular basis. I do understand your angst in regard to the NC game though. I'll be feeling that angst about this season for a long time. Hummel doesn't go down and we likely beat MSU, win the Big Ten outright, and possibly end up ranked #1 in the country (#1-3 went down that weekend). Oh and we would've had a #1 seed with the Final Four an hour from home. Yeah, the end of this season is a bitter pill to swallow.

And again, I think our program is better, but not by enough to make some ridiculous claim about being one of the top programs ever. Bum's done that and that's why,imo, most of us are making fun of Purdue at any turn. I actually root for you guys to do well.

Smack · March 16, 2010

Look, you can come up with stats all day long trying to make Illinois look better and I can do the same trying to make Purdue look better.

We're both currently living in the shadow of Michigan State and Ohio State. They continue to out-perform and out-recruit us on a regular basis. I do understand your angst in regard to the NC game though. I'll be feeling that angst about this season for a long time. Hummel doesn't go down and we likely beat MSU, win the Big Ten outright, and possibly end up ranked #1 in the country (#1-3 went down that weekend). Oh and we would've had a #1 seed with the Final Four an hour from home. Yeah, the end of this season is a bitter pill to swallow.
And again, I think our program is better, but not by enough to make some ridiculous claim about being one of the top programs ever. Bum's done that and that's why,imo, most of us are making fun of Purdue at any turn. I actually root for you guys to do well.

Which is a shame, that he pushes your (collective, Illinois) buttons I mean. Most of the Illinois fans around here are pretty knowledgeable and I look forward to reading what you guys have to say.

illiniguy · March 16, 2010

Look, you can come up with stats all day long trying to make Illinois look better and I can do the same trying to make Purdue look better.

We're both currently living in the shadow of Michigan State and Ohio State. They continue to out-perform and out-recruit us on a regular basis. I do understand your angst in regard to the NC game though. I'll be feeling that angst about this season for a long time. Hummel doesn't go down and we likely beat MSU, win the Big Ten outright, and possibly end up ranked #1 in the country (#1-3 went down that weekend). Oh and we would've had a #1 seed with the Final Four an hour from home. Yeah, the end of this season is a bitter pill to swallow.
And again, I think our program is better, but not by enough to make some ridiculous claim about being one of the top programs ever. Bum's done that and that's why,imo, most of us are making fun of Purdue at any turn. I actually root for you guys to do well.

Which is a shame, that he pushes your (collective, Illinois) buttons I mean. Most of the Illinois fans around here are pretty knowledgeable and I look forward to reading what you guys have to say.

It's all in good fun. You have a good nucleus, I am worried about how Hummel comes back next year. I played with two guys who tore ACLs. One was back and about the same the next year, one was pretty much done after he did it. The good thing Hummel has going for him is that most of his game isn't based on playing above the rim, the bad thing is going to be how he is able to guard the quicker players now. I really think you guys will be a top ten team next year, but I wouldn't be suprised to see the losses of Kramer and Grant hurt you a lot more than many on here are thinking. Kramer, while a d-bag, was first team defense all four years he was in conference and Grant has played a solid role as well. Trust me when I say sometimes freshman aren't ready to come in and be super solid from the get go.

SeldomSeen · March 17, 2010

Illinois fans, Purdue fans... can we get a Kentucky fan in here and really [expletive] this place up? Christ almighty, these basketball threads have become a cesspool. :banghead:

Full disclosure: I'm an IU fan- what the hell do I know? :wink:

CubbieBum · March 17, 2010

Look, you can come up with stats all day long trying to make Illinois look better and I can do the same trying to make Purdue look better.

We're both currently living in the shadow of Michigan State and Ohio State. They continue to out-perform and out-recruit us on a regular basis. I do understand your angst in regard to the NC game though. I'll be feeling that angst about this season for a long time. Hummel doesn't go down and we likely beat MSU, win the Big Ten outright, and possibly end up ranked #1 in the country (#1-3 went down that weekend). Oh and we would've had a #1 seed with the Final Four an hour from home. Yeah, the end of this season is a bitter pill to swallow.
And again, I think our program is better, but not by enough to make some ridiculous claim about being one of the top programs ever. Bum's done that and that's why,imo, most of us are making fun of Purdue at any turn. I actually root for you guys to do well.

Which is a shame, that he pushes your (collective, Illinois) buttons I mean. Most of the Illinois fans around here are pretty knowledgeable and I look forward to reading what you guys have to say.
It's all in good fun. You have a good nucleus, I am worried about how Hummel comes back next year. I played with two guys who tore ACLs. One was back and about the same the next year, one was pretty much done after he did it. The good thing Hummel has going for him is that most of his game isn't based on playing above the rim, the bad thing is going to be how he is able to guard the quicker players now. I really think you guys will be a top ten team next year, but I wouldn't be suprised to see the losses of Kramer and Grant hurt you a lot more than many on here are thinking. Kramer, while a d-bag, was first team defense all four years he was in conference and Grant has played a solid role as well. Trust me when I say sometimes freshman aren't ready to come in and be super solid from the get go.

I'm not really counting on the freshman. Painter is annoying the piss out of me by refusing to recruit from outside the state or just across the Indiana border.

I am hoping that Barlow steps up his game some. If he chooses to he could be a great perimeter defender due to his size and athleticism. He should, at the least, be able to pick up some of the slack in the offense created by Grant. D.J. Byrd should also be better and be able give us some scoring off the bench. Bade should also improve and be smarter making him a decent backup C. Add in LewJack most likely being more healthy and there for a lot more games and any freshman who is competent and Purdue should be just as good.

Obviously if Barlow, Bade and Byrd don't get any better, no freshman can step in or LewJack continues to be hurt we will be quite a bit worse but if a couple of them are better Purdue is still top 10 and if all step up then Purdue may be the best next season.

And I still stand by what I said. Purdue is historically one of the best in the Big Ten. If you want to start changing historically to the last 10, 20 or whatever years then that changes everything and I wouldn't say Purdue is nearly as strong.

illiniguy · March 17, 2010

Look, you can come up with stats all day long trying to make Illinois look better and I can do the same trying to make Purdue look better.

We're both currently living in the shadow of Michigan State and Ohio State. They continue to out-perform and out-recruit us on a regular basis. I do understand your angst in regard to the NC game though. I'll be feeling that angst about this season for a long time. Hummel doesn't go down and we likely beat MSU, win the Big Ten outright, and possibly end up ranked #1 in the country (#1-3 went down that weekend). Oh and we would've had a #1 seed with the Final Four an hour from home. Yeah, the end of this season is a bitter pill to swallow.
And again, I think our program is better, but not by enough to make some ridiculous claim about being one of the top programs ever. Bum's done that and that's why,imo, most of us are making fun of Purdue at any turn. I actually root for you guys to do well.

Which is a shame, that he pushes your (collective, Illinois) buttons I mean. Most of the Illinois fans around here are pretty knowledgeable and I look forward to reading what you guys have to say.
It's all in good fun. You have a good nucleus, I am worried about how Hummel comes back next year. I played with two guys who tore ACLs. One was back and about the same the next year, one was pretty much done after he did it. The good thing Hummel has going for him is that most of his game isn't based on playing above the rim, the bad thing is going to be how he is able to guard the quicker players now. I really think you guys will be a top ten team next year, but I wouldn't be suprised to see the losses of Kramer and Grant hurt you a lot more than many on here are thinking. Kramer, while a d-bag, was first team defense all four years he was in conference and Grant has played a solid role as well. Trust me when I say sometimes freshman aren't ready to come in and be super solid from the get go.

I'm not really counting on the freshman. Painter is annoying the piss out of me by refusing to recruit from outside the state or just across the Indiana border.

I am hoping that Barlow steps up his game some. If he chooses to he could be a great perimeter defender due to his size and athleticism. He should, at the least, be able to pick up some of the slack in the offense created by Grant. D.J. Byrd should also be better and be able give us some scoring off the bench. Bade should also improve and be smarter making him a decent backup C. Add in LewJack most likely being more healthy and there for a lot more games and any freshman who is competent and Purdue should be just as good.

Obviously if Barlow, Bade and Byrd don't get any better, no freshman can step in or LewJack continues to be hurt we will be quite a bit worse but if a couple of them are better Purdue is still top 10 and if all step up then Purdue may be the best next season.

And I still stand by what I said. Purdue is historically one of the best in the Big Ten. If you want to start changing historically to the last 10, 20 or whatever years then that changes everything and I wouldn't say Purdue is nearly as strong.

You said top two, which is what we all took issue with. had you said one of the ebst, I know I wouldn't have laughed so hard. As for being the best next year, no way. Michigan State was better than you this year, and they bring back everyone but Morgan, and replace him with a top 5 recruiting class.

March 17, 2010

Who do you guys lose? Tiller, Taylor, and Ramsey? That's a lot of minutes.

Pressey and Mitchell will be big talent upgrades though.

That is quite a few minutes, although not as bad as most programs that lose 3 starters. Someone did this comparison after the the regular season, and I'm going to shamelessly steal it here. The numbers you see are star ratings from rivals. Crude, but a decent(and accessible) measure.

This year:

Kansas             K-State              Mizzou

Collins 5          Clemente 3           Taylor 2
Henry 5            Pullen 3             Ramsey 3
Aldrich 4          Kelly 5              English 3
McMorris 4         Samuels 3            Tiller 3
Taylor 4           Sutton 4             Bowers 3
Morningstar 3      Colon 3              Denmon 3
MkMorris 4         McGruder 4           Safford 3
Reed 3             Judge 5              Dixon 3
Henry 3            Irving 3             Paul 3
Robinson 4         H-Roberts 3          Moore 3

TOTAL 39           TOTAL  36            TOTAL 29

Next Year:

Kansas             K-State              Mizzou

Johnson 5          Russell 3            Mitchell 5
Releford 4         Pullen 3             Pressey 4
Little 4           Kelly 5              English 3
McMorris 4         Samuels 3            Underwood 3
Taylor 4           Sutton 4             Bowers 3
Morningstar 3      Asprilla 3           Denmon 3
MkMorris 4         McGruder 4           Safford 3
Reed 3             Judge 5              Dixon 3
Henry 3            Irving 3             Paul 3
Robinson 4         H-Roberts 3          Moore 3

TOTAL 38           TOTAL  36            TOTAL 33

Now obviously not all stars are created equal, and development/maturity makes a very large difference. Still, I'd wager next year will be the first year in a long while Kansas has had a couple teams this close in these terms.

CubbieBum · March 17, 2010

I'm not really counting on the freshman. Painter is annoying the piss out of me by refusing to recruit from outside the state or just across the Indiana border.

I am hoping that Barlow steps up his game some. If he chooses to he could be a great perimeter defender due to his size and athleticism. He should, at the least, be able to pick up some of the slack in the offense created by Grant. D.J. Byrd should also be better and be able give us some scoring off the bench. Bade should also improve and be smarter making him a decent backup C. Add in LewJack most likely being more healthy and there for a lot more games and any freshman who is competent and Purdue should be just as good.

Obviously if Barlow, Bade and Byrd don't get any better, no freshman can step in or LewJack continues to be hurt we will be quite a bit worse but if a couple of them are better Purdue is still top 10 and if all step up then Purdue may be the best next season.

And I still stand by what I said. Purdue is historically one of the best in the Big Ten. If you want to start changing historically to the last 10, 20 or whatever years then that changes everything and I wouldn't say Purdue is nearly as strong.
You said top two, which is what we all took issue with. had you said one of the ebst, I know I wouldn't have laughed so hard. As for being the best next year, no way. Michigan State was better than you this year, and they bring back everyone but Morgan, and replace him with a top 5 recruiting class.

For one Michigan State wasn't better than us. They were equal to us and that is with the Hummel stuff at the end.

For two I said we may be the best if Barlow, Byrd, Bade and LewJack all step up/are more healthy. I don't think that is a stretch. If we lose Kramer and Grant and have four guys doing better that would make us a better team this year's team.

March 17, 2010

Purdue lost one game without Hummel(ironically, to Michigan State). Michigan State lost 2 games without Lucas(including their loss to Purdue).

bukie · March 17, 2010

Purdue lost one game without Hummel(ironically, to Michigan State). Michigan State lost 2 games without Lucas(including their loss to Purdue).

2 games without Hummel. Unless you didn't consider the Minnesota drubbing much of a game.

March 17, 2010

Purdue lost one game without Hummel(ironically, to Michigan State). Michigan State lost 2 games without Lucas(including their loss to Purdue).
2 games without Hummel. Unless you didn't consider the Minnesota drubbing much of a game.

I was only talking regular season.

CubbieBum · March 17, 2010

Purdue lost one game without Hummel(ironically, to Michigan State). Michigan State lost 2 games without Lucas(including their loss to Purdue).

Lucas played 29 minutes against Purdue when they lost at home by 12.

tadowdaddy · March 17, 2010

Dom Sutton is JUST as old!

Next year we'll look like this, one hell of a deep team:

PG: Russell (Soph)/Irving (Soph)/Spradling(Fr)
SG: Pullen (Sr)/McGruder (Soph)/Southwell (Fr)
SF: Sutton (Sr)/Samuels (Jr)/Southwell (Fr)
PF: Kelly(Sr)/Judge(Soph)
C: Asprilla (Jr)/Henriquez-Roberts (Soph)

The loss of Clemente is huge, but we are a very strong 2 deep at every single position. I can't wait to see how much Judge and Kelly improve after a year, as well as how McGruder improves. We're going to be pretty nasty. It's nice to have something to look forward to! Outside of Clemente we're only losing Colon and Merriewether.

Who's Asprilla? I don't remember him at all. Personally, I'd get Judge and Samuels on the court as much as possible.

http://www.kansascity.com/2009/11/17/1577313/k-state-adds-to-recruiting-class.html

He's Cole basically... at least he was in the Sun Belt his freshman year. I'll be estatic if he duplicates those #'s his junior year, or his first year at KSU.

snoodmonger · March 17, 2010

Who do you guys lose? Tiller, Taylor, and Ramsey? That's a lot of minutes.

Pressey and Mitchell will be big talent upgrades though.

That is quite a few minutes, although not as bad as most programs that lose 3 starters. Someone did this comparison after the the regular season, and I'm going to shamelessly steal it here. The numbers you see are star ratings from rivals. Crude, but a decent(and accessible) measure.

This year:
Kansas             K-State              Mizzou

Collins 5          Clemente 3           Taylor 2
Henry 5            Pullen 3             Ramsey 3
Aldrich 4          Kelly 5              English 3
McMorris 4         Samuels 3            Tiller 3
Taylor 4           Sutton 4             Bowers 3
Morningstar 3      Colon 3              Denmon 3
MkMorris 4         McGruder 4           Safford 3
Reed 3             Judge 5              Dixon 3
Henry 3            Irving 3             Paul 3
Robinson 4         H-Roberts 3          Moore 3

TOTAL 39           TOTAL  36            TOTAL 29
Kansas             K-State              Mizzou

Johnson 5          Russell 3            Mitchell 5
Releford 4         Pullen 3             Pressey 4
Little 4           Kelly 5              English 3
McMorris 4         Samuels 3            Underwood 3
Taylor 4           Sutton 4             Bowers 3
Morningstar 3      Asprilla 3           Denmon 3
MkMorris 4         McGruder 4           Safford 3
Reed 3             Judge 5              Dixon 3
Henry 3            Irving 3             Paul 3
Robinson 4         H-Roberts 3          Moore 3

TOTAL 38           TOTAL  36            TOTAL 33
Now obviously not all stars are created equal, and development/maturity makes a very large difference. Still, I'd wager next year will be the first year in a long while Kansas has had a couple teams this close in these terms.

Next year:

I don't really disagree. Next year will be everybody's best chance to supplant KU. If we get Selby, Knight, or Lamb, it'll be harder, but we'll be vulnerable.

Vanilla Ice · March 17, 2010

Duke picked up a 6'6" SF JUCO transfer in Carrick Felix. Another piece to what could be a very good team with Felix, Kyrie Irving, Seth Curry, and Tyler Thornton all coming in.

SouthSideRyan · March 17, 2010

Seth Curry's gonna be the most overrated guard at Duke since...Seth Curry's gonna be the most overrated black guy at Duke ever.

Vanilla Ice · March 17, 2010

Seth Curry's gonna be the most overrated guard at Duke since...Seth Curry's gonna be the most overrated black guy at Duke ever.

No Duke fans are expecting too much out of him. If Singler comes back, he should be only the fifth or sixth perimeter player (depending on how good Felix is). By all accounts, he has been the best shooter in practice this year. Granted that is all speculation and still just in practice, but he should be able to contribute. Again, he'll probably be the backup or 3rd option at point guard and the 3rd option at shooting guard, so he won't play a huge role on the team. We'll have much more perimeter depth next year than we have this year. I think Duke could be even better next year, if a lot of things go right.

PG Irving/Smith/Curry/Thornton

SG Smith/Dawkins/Curry

SF Singler/Dawkins/Felix

hawkeyecub · March 17, 2010

Seth Curry's gonna be the most overrated guard at Duke since...Seth Curry's gonna be the most overrated black guy at Duke ever.

LOL

fromthestretch · March 17, 2010

I'm not really counting on the freshman. Painter is annoying the piss out of me by refusing to recruit from outside the state or just across the Indiana border.

I am hoping that Barlow steps up his game some. If he chooses to he could be a great perimeter defender due to his size and athleticism. He should, at the least, be able to pick up some of the slack in the offense created by Grant. D.J. Byrd should also be better and be able give us some scoring off the bench. Bade should also improve and be smarter making him a decent backup C. Add in LewJack most likely being more healthy and there for a lot more games and any freshman who is competent and Purdue should be just as good.

Obviously if Barlow, Bade and Byrd don't get any better, no freshman can step in or LewJack continues to be hurt we will be quite a bit worse but if a couple of them are better Purdue is still top 10 and if all step up then Purdue may be the best next season.

And I still stand by what I said. Purdue is historically one of the best in the Big Ten. If you want to start changing historically to the last 10, 20 or whatever years then that changes everything and I wouldn't say Purdue is nearly as strong.
You said top two, which is what we all took issue with. had you said one of the ebst, I know I wouldn't have laughed so hard. As for being the best next year, no way. Michigan State was better than you this year, and they bring back everyone but Morgan, and replace him with a top 5 recruiting class.

For one Michigan State wasn't better than us. They were equal to us and that is with the Hummel stuff at the end.

For two I said we may be the best if Barlow, Byrd, Bade and LewJack all step up/are more healthy. I don't think that is a stretch. If we lose Kramer and Grant and have four guys doing better that would make us a better team this year's team.

Bade has a very long way to go to become a useful backup post player. Purdue better hope that Marcius is fully healthy and ready to play next season.

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