Matt Holliday Signs with Cards (7yrs, $120 Million)

[Sever82]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4780391

 

Starting to sounds like Holliday's deal might end up being as bad as Soriano's. I'd be real hesitant to give Holliday that kind of money, especially a player who posted big number in colorado and struggled in Oakland early on. I mean yeah he played well for the Cards but is he worth that much money? Mlbtr is posted that it was confirmed to be 140 million over 8 years guaranteed.

[Tim M]

Who are they even bidding against? I haven't heard anyone else linked to him.

[Sever82]

Who are they even bidding against? I haven't heard anyone else linked to him.

 

They're bidding against themselves from the looks of it. Doesn't look like Holliday has an offer from another team since the Mets signed Bay, unless the Red Sox come into the picture. This kind of reminds me of the Zito signing.

[Prizefight]

He'll be 30 in January. 8 years? That's going to be some serious bad paper as a 37 year old making 17.5 million. As a Cubs fan, I hope they do this.

[ManCrushOnNomar]

Tracy Ringolsby also said the Orioles offered 8 years/$130M, but MLBTR shot that down.

[Guest]

Reads to me like Boras is up to his old trixs with the media. Seems to me the Cards wouldn't do this if they plan on keeping Al long term. He's the big fish.

[Little Slide Rooter]

This will definitely make the Cards the NL Central favs, at least for the 2010 Season. Not the run away favs, but the favs. However, this deal coupled with Pujols next deal could prove costly once guys like Molina, Ludwick, Carpenter, and Wainwright are due up for contracts and they're left deasting on scraps, much like the Cubs are now. And whatever Pujols says, while he'll give the Cards a disount, I cant see the players union allowing him to take too much of a pay cut.

[Banedon]

Reads to me like Boras is up to his old trixs with the media. Seems to me the Cards wouldn't do this if they plan on keeping Al long term. He's the big fish.

 

My Card fan buddy keeps trying to tell me that a big deal for Holliday actually helps them with a future deal with Pujols, becuase Pujols wants to see them start spending money in free agency. I guess we'll see about that.

[shnsajax]

This will definitely make the Cards the NL Central favs, at least for the 2010 Season. Not the run away favs, but the favs. However, this deal coupled with Pujols next deal could prove costly once guys like Molina, Ludwick, Carpenter, and Wainwright are due up for contracts and they're left deasting on scraps, much like the Cubs are now. And whatever Pujols says, while he'll give the Cards a disount, I cant see the players union allowing him to take too much of a pay cut.

 

They might have around $350 million in Pujols, Carpenter, and Holliday very soon.

[davell]

Reads to me like Boras is up to his old trixs with the media. Seems to me the Cards wouldn't do this if they plan on keeping Al long term. He's the big fish.

 

My Card fan buddy keeps trying to tell me that a big deal for Holliday actually helps them with a future deal with Pujols, becuase Pujols wants to see them start spending money in free agency. I guess we'll see about that.

 

I'd agree with your buddy actually. But, once Pujols IS signed, their spending spree is over.They have to keep him happy until then, because they don't want to see him SNIFF an open market.

[mul21]

There was talk down here on sports radio yesterday that he doesn't want to sign a deal for less than the avg annual value of whatever Colorado offered him that he turned down. That was like a 4 or 5 year $18M per I think? If it does end up over that, it'll be because there are option years and incentives that Boras will make them include just so he can save face and say he got Holliday his $18-19M per year deal. I think he'll be with them and it may be an 8 year deal with only 5-6 years guaranteed.

[ManEatingTarp]

I wouldn't be surprised if it's a deal for 5/90 with some options that could lead to an 8/140 contract.

 

The comparison to Soriano doesn't really work for me. Soriano was a poor fielding .270 hitter with power and speed. Not the description I'd give to Holliday. They have totally different skill sets.

[Sever82]

I'm starting to sense a Vernon Wells/Alfonso Soriano type of mistake for the Cards. which is fine with me because then the Cards can't tease Cubs fans about overpaying Soriano. You can put it anyway you want but Holliday is not worth 18 million per yr. I thought Bay's contract was bad but if Holliday's deal gets up to 8yrs, it will be worse.

[SouthSideRyan]

I wouldn't be surprised if it's a deal for 5/90 with some options that could lead to an 8/140 contract.

 

The comparison to Soriano doesn't really work for me. Soriano was a poor fielding .270 hitter with power and speed. Not the description I'd give to Holliday. They have totally different skill sets.

 

Soriano wasn't a poor fielder until this season.

[Sever82]

I wouldn't be surprised if it's a deal for 5/90 with some options that could lead to an 8/140 contract.

 

The comparison to Soriano doesn't really work for me. Soriano was a poor fielding .270 hitter with power and speed. Not the description I'd give to Holliday. They have totally different skill sets.

 

With Soriano you knew what you were getting because his numbers were consistant. Holliday's numbers were pretty good in Colorado but he struggled a bit in Oakland which was the first time away from Colorado's launching pad. If I'm a Cards fan i'm more worried on whether the real Holliday is the Oakland Holliday or the Holliday that played in St. Louis. Just like some cubs fans didnt like the Bradley signing and dont like the idea of the Byrd signing because they both played in hitters parks so their stats might be a bit overblown. i think the same thing can be said somewhat about Holliday.

 

Since Boras is Holliday's agent, i can see Holliday getting the 18 million annually he's looking for at maybe 6-8 years which would be a huge mistake in my opinion. We'll see though. i will laugh my butt off if come august Soriano's line is better than Hollidays.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Could it be that Boras just plain doesnt want Holliday in St. Louis, and unlike Pujols, hes a mercinary and going to do what Boras wants? Boras usually likes his big name guys in big markets like New York, Boston, LA, and Seattle, and St. Lou doesnt cut it. For the same reason, I find it very doubtful that Fielder signs a long term deal with Milwaukee after this season.

[d_money]

If Holliday signs w/ StL for $17M-$18M, which is more than AP is making - how long will it take for them to rip up AP's contract? Before the season?

 

I can't see AP accepting a player making more than him for any length of time.

 

Point being...StL could have 40% of its payroll ($100M target per DeWallett) tied up in 2 players beginning in '10. This could be a nightmare in terms of payroll flexibility in 3 years with a couple of aging players.

[Formerly Snayke]

Could it be that Boras just plain doesnt want Holliday in St. Louis, and unlike Pujols, hes a mercinary and going to do what Boras wants? Boras usually likes his big name guys in big markets like New York, Boston, LA, and Seattle, and St. Lou doesnt cut it. For the same reason, I find it very doubtful that Fielder signs a long term deal with Milwaukee after this season.

 

I don't think Boras cares where his clients are playing as long as they are getting paid. The reason they wind up in big markets is because the franchises in those cities can afford the price.

 

I can't see AP accepting a player making more than him for any length of time.

 

I read this all the time and still don't understand it.

[Backtobanks]

Could it be that Boras just plain doesnt want Holliday in St. Louis, and unlike Pujols, hes a mercinary and going to do what Boras wants? Boras usually likes his big name guys in big markets like New York, Boston, LA, and Seattle, and St. Lou doesnt cut it. For the same reason, I find it very doubtful that Fielder signs a long term deal with Milwaukee after this season.

 

I don't think Boras cares where his clients are playing as long as they are getting paid. The reason they wind up in big markets is because the franchises in those cities can afford the price.

 

I can't see AP accepting a player making more than him for any length of time.

 

I read this all the time and still don't understand it.

 

What's not to get. All ballplayers (including AP) have egos, especially when you're the best player in the game and the face of the franchise. The players have dominated the labor situation for so long that a contract means nothing anymore. Unfortunately, your greatness is measured by the size of your contract. If AP decides he wants to be the highest paid player on the Cards, they will rip up his contract and pay him more.

[mul21]

 

What's not to get. All ballplayers (including AP) have egos, especially when you're the best player in the game and the face of the franchise. The players have dominated the labor situation for so long that a contract means nothing anymore. Unfortunately, your greatness is measured by the size of your contract. If AP decides he wants to be the highest paid player on the Cards, they will rip up his contract and pay him more.

 

No way that happens. First, I don't think Pujols is a guy that would do that. Second, the contract he is under right now is below his current market value because when he signed it, it bought out a couple years of arbitration where he would have been paid significantly less than the $14M avg or whatever the contract is worth. Plus, how often do you really see a contract in baseball ripped up? More often, you see years added on with maybe a slight renegotiation of the remaining years.

[Keener98]

5:30pm: Sources tell ESPN.com's Buster Olney that the Cardinals and Holliday "are close to a deal."

 

per www.mlbtraderumors.com

[Mugged By Fluffy]

Reads to me like Boras is up to his old trixs with the media. Seems to me the Cards wouldn't do this if they plan on keeping Al long term. He's the big fish.

 

My Card fan buddy keeps trying to tell me that a big deal for Holliday actually helps them with a future deal with Pujols, becuase Pujols wants to see them start spending money in free agency. I guess we'll see about that.

 

I'd agree with your buddy actually. But, once Pujols IS signed, their spending spree is over.They have to keep him happy until then, because they don't want to see him SNIFF an open market.

 

Unless the Cards plan on significantly raising their payroll over 100 mil, there is no way they can sign Holliday longterm and resign Pujols and still field a winning team. They are going to resemble the Texas Rangers when A-Rod was playing for them.

[GhostRunner]

Take it for what it's worth ... but several Cardinals fans in my office seem to be convinced that when Pujols' contract discussions do come around, he may be persuaded to take less money in exchange for a partial ownership in the franchise.

 

Has anything like that been done before?

[SouthSideRyan]

Take it for what it's worth ... but several Cardinals fans in my office seem to be convinced that when Pujols' contract discussions do come around, he may be persuaded to take less money in exchange for a partial ownership in the franchise.

 

Has anything like that been done before?

 

I don't konw why, but I recall hearing it's not allowed.

 

I'm quite sure the Cardinals fans in your office pulled this straight from their collective asses.

[MSG T]

Take it for what it's worth ... but several Cardinals fans in my office seem to be convinced that when Pujols' contract discussions do come around, he may be persuaded to take less money in exchange for a partial ownership in the franchise.

 

Has anything like that been done before?

 

I don't konw why, but I recall hearing it's not allowed.

 

I'm quite sure the Cardinals fans in your office pulled this straight from their collective asses.

 

I'll fully admit to pulling this out of my arse, but they could mean he gets part ownership after he retires, not as part of his current contract. Kind of a buy now pay later unwritten agreement thing.

 

I doubt it's a possibility, but that's probably what they meant.