NCAA Conference Realignment

[tadowdaddy]

Here's another thought for people asking why the Big 12 would get this TV contract. Fox wants to keep up/surpass with ESPN/ABC and Murdoch has the money to do so. A channel dedicated to ONLY Big 12 sports will compete with anything that the ESPN/ABC college monopoly will offer.

 

 

who's watching? The state of Texas and the other 14 people in the Big 12 footprint? No cable carriers will feel compelled to carry a Big 12 network outside of those areas.

 

So are you telling me that if someone like Kevin Durant shows up at a school in this league again (which will happen), he's going to be broadcast nationally playing against EVERY school in the league. Now the lesser teams (not talking about KSU as our entire bball schedule was televised last year) like Baylor get broadcast nationally, and gets some exposure. People WILL watch that just to see someone like Durant. I get where you're coming from, but you can't be so short sighted about it.

[Jon]

Stopping at Nebraska would be a hilarious misstep by the Big Ten. Adding a has been program with no eyeballs does absolutely nothing for them, and it wastes their best effort to actually get the school they've always wanted.

I don't think it wastes it. The Nebraska and Colorado moves were necessary to put things in motion. If The Big 12 stays together, there really wasn't much more they could do to attract Notre Dame aside from going after 2 Big East schools. But that carries a big risk. They didn't want to be the ones to destabilize the eastern conferences alone. It required the SEC's help.

 

This would just be phase 1. Phase 2 comes in a couple of years or so and Notre Dame shouldn't be less of a possibility then than it was a month ago. If anything, I think the discussions/negotiations the Big Ten has had with Notre Dame during this time will help set things up later.

 

Are you assuming that ND football is worse or at least no better in the next 2-3 years?

Neither. I think Big East rule stating that if 2 football schools leave the conference, then the league can split between football and non-football schools without penalty while still retaining revenues. As Frank the Tank alluded to, the conference is going to be on edge of other things around the country add to the likelihood that Big East schools are targets for other conferences. The implications for Notre Dame, particularly around non-revenue sports, aren't going away. And the longer expansion talk lasts, the more likely it is that the Big East is going to want to know where Notre Dame stands.

[tadowdaddy]

you have faith in Dan Beebe? YOu're willing to best KU's athletic survival on him?

 

I'm not.

 

Beebe did nothing to bring out this TV package other than being a figure head. The TV contract was developed in large part by Tim Weiser, who I do trust. Beebe is a figurehead and nothing more! Trust that. He won't be around long.

[tadowdaddy]

Here's another thought for people asking why the Big 12 would get this TV contract. Fox wants to keep up/surpass with ESPN/ABC and Murdoch has the money to do so. A channel dedicated to ONLY Big 12 sports will compete with anything that the ESPN/ABC college monopoly will offer.

 

Do they add Air Force and BYU as reported earlier this week?

 

 

No, 10 team league where you play everyone in the league during football season.

[snoodmonger]

Here's another thought for people asking why the Big 12 would get this TV contract. Fox wants to keep up/surpass with ESPN/ABC and Murdoch has the money to do so. A channel dedicated to ONLY Big 12 sports will compete with anything that the ESPN/ABC college monopoly will offer.

 

 

who's watching? The state of Texas and the other 14 people in the Big 12 footprint? No cable carriers will feel compelled to carry a Big 12 network outside of those areas.

 

So are you telling me that if someone like Kevin Durant shows up at a school in this league again (which will happen), he's going to be broadcast nationally playing against EVERY school in the league. Now the lesser teams (not talking about KSU as our entire bball schedule was televised last year) like Baylor get broadcast nationally, and gets some exposure. People WILL watch that just to see someone like Durant. I get where you're coming from, but you can't be so short sighted about it.

 

Are we talking about two different things?

 

If there's a dedicated cable network for Big 12 sports, it won't be carried anywhere but in Big 12 land. Unless it's part of some super duper premium sports tier elsewhere.

 

And I doubt carriers in across the country are going to all of the sudden make it part of the basic cable package because Kevin Durant part 2 walks into the league for one season.

 

Maybe I just don't get the way a Big 12 network would work. Am I missing something?

Edited June 14, 2010 by snoodmonger

[kujay]

you have faith in Dan Beebe? YOu're willing to best KU's athletic survival on him?

 

I'm not.

 

Definitely not. But if the money is there, the league will stay together.

[jersey cubs fan]

Did somebody say the big 12 network would compete with ESPN?

[TruffleShuffle]

Here's another thought for people asking why the Big 12 would get this TV contract. Fox wants to keep up/surpass with ESPN/ABC and Murdoch has the money to do so. A channel dedicated to ONLY Big 12 sports will compete with anything that the ESPN/ABC college monopoly will offer.

 

 

who's watching? The state of Texas and the other 14 people in the Big 12 footprint? No cable carriers will feel compelled to carry a Big 12 network outside of those areas.

 

So are you telling me that if someone like Kevin Durant shows up at a school in this league again (which will happen), he's going to be broadcast nationally playing against EVERY school in the league. Now the lesser teams (not talking about KSU as our entire bball schedule was televised last year) like Baylor get broadcast nationally, and gets some exposure. People WILL watch that just to see someone like Durant. I get where you're coming from, but you can't be so short sighted about it.

 

it's not just about kevin durant; the big ten network televises field hockey and soccer and volleyball and women's basketball. of course a men's basketball player who is the best player in the country is going to be a big deal, but people on the east and west coast and in the great lakes/ohio valley aren't going to want to pay an extra .75 to 1.00 to have the big xii network on their cable provider. the high profile big xii games (texas-ou, texas-kansas basketball, etc) are going to be broadcast nationally and nobody is really going to care if they miss out on ksu-baylor. the big ten network isn't included by most cable providers in the northeast and mid-atlantic states, and there are tons of big ten grads in those places.

[SouthSideRyan]

Did somebody say the big 12 network would compete with ESPN?

 

Kevin Durant

[kujay]

Here's another thought for people asking why the Big 12 would get this TV contract. Fox wants to keep up/surpass with ESPN/ABC and Murdoch has the money to do so. A channel dedicated to ONLY Big 12 sports will compete with anything that the ESPN/ABC college monopoly will offer.

 

 

who's watching? The state of Texas and the other 14 people in the Big 12 footprint? No cable carriers will feel compelled to carry a Big 12 network outside of those areas.

 

So are you telling me that if someone like Kevin Durant shows up at a school in this league again (which will happen), he's going to be broadcast nationally playing against EVERY school in the league. Now the lesser teams (not talking about KSU as our entire bball schedule was televised last year) like Baylor get broadcast nationally, and gets some exposure. People WILL watch that just to see someone like Durant. I get where you're coming from, but you can't be so short sighted about it.

 

it's not just about kevin durant; the big ten network televises field hockey and soccer and volleyball and women's basketball. of course a men's basketball player who is the best player in the country is going to be a big deal, but people on the east and west coast and in the great lakes/ohio valley aren't going to want to pay an extra .75 to 1.00 to have the big xii network on their cable provider. the high profile big xii games (texas-ou, texas-kansas basketball, etc) are going to be broadcast nationally and nobody is really going to care if they miss out on ksu-baylor. the big ten network isn't included by most cable providers in the northeast and mid-atlantic states, and there are tons of big ten grads in those places.

 

I'm curious to know what type of ratings the smaller sports get on the B10 network. Who in the hell watches field hockey?

[Tracer Bullet]

Stopping at Nebraska would be a hilarious misstep by the Big Ten. Adding a has been program with no eyeballs does absolutely nothing for them, and it wastes their best effort to actually get the school they've always wanted.

I don't think it wastes it. The Nebraska and Colorado moves were necessary to put things in motion. If The Big 12 stays together, there really wasn't much more they could do to attract Notre Dame aside from going after 2 Big East schools. But that carries a big risk. They didn't want to be the ones to destabilize the eastern conferences alone. It required the SEC's help.

 

This would just be phase 1. Phase 2 comes in a couple of years or so and Notre Dame shouldn't be less of a possibility then than it was a month ago. If anything, I think the discussions/negotiations the Big Ten has had with Notre Dame during this time will help set things up later.

 

Are you assuming that ND football is worse or at least no better in the next 2-3 years?

Neither. I think Big East rule stating that if 2 football schools leave the conference, then the league can split between football and non-football schools without penalty while still retaining revenues. As Frank the Tank alluded to, the conference is going to be on edge of other things around the country add to the likelihood that Big East schools are targets for other conferences. The implications for Notre Dame, particularly around non-revenue sports, aren't going away. And the longer expansion talk lasts, the more likely it is that the Big East is going to want to know where Notre Dame stands.

 

The Big East knows where ND stands. I'm not positive Frank the Tank does.

[Tracer Bullet]

Here's another thought for people asking why the Big 12 would get this TV contract. Fox wants to keep up/surpass with ESPN/ABC and Murdoch has the money to do so. A channel dedicated to ONLY Big 12 sports will compete with anything that the ESPN/ABC college monopoly will offer.

 

 

who's watching? The state of Texas and the other 14 people in the Big 12 footprint? No cable carriers will feel compelled to carry a Big 12 network outside of those areas.

 

So are you telling me that if someone like Kevin Durant shows up at a school in this league again (which will happen), he's going to be broadcast nationally playing against EVERY school in the league. Now the lesser teams (not talking about KSU as our entire bball schedule was televised last year) like Baylor get broadcast nationally, and gets some exposure. People WILL watch that just to see someone like Durant. I get where you're coming from, but you can't be so short sighted about it.

 

it's not just about kevin durant; the big ten network televises field hockey and soccer and volleyball and women's basketball. of course a men's basketball player who is the best player in the country is going to be a big deal, but people on the east and west coast and in the great lakes/ohio valley aren't going to want to pay an extra .75 to 1.00 to have the big xii network on their cable provider. the high profile big xii games (texas-ou, texas-kansas basketball, etc) are going to be broadcast nationally and nobody is really going to care if they miss out on ksu-baylor. the big ten network isn't included by most cable providers in the northeast and mid-atlantic states, and there are tons of big ten grads in those places.

 

I'm curious to know what type of ratings the smaller sports get on the B10 network. Who in the hell watches field hockey?

 

I'm curious to know where the B10 network gets its income, other than from the schools themselves "paying" for their ad slots.

[tadowdaddy]

Here's another thought for people asking why the Big 12 would get this TV contract. Fox wants to keep up/surpass with ESPN/ABC and Murdoch has the money to do so. A channel dedicated to ONLY Big 12 sports will compete with anything that the ESPN/ABC college monopoly will offer.

 

 

who's watching? The state of Texas and the other 14 people in the Big 12 footprint? No cable carriers will feel compelled to carry a Big 12 network outside of those areas.

 

So are you telling me that if someone like Kevin Durant shows up at a school in this league again (which will happen), he's going to be broadcast nationally playing against EVERY school in the league. Now the lesser teams (not talking about KSU as our entire bball schedule was televised last year) like Baylor get broadcast nationally, and gets some exposure. People WILL watch that just to see someone like Durant. I get where you're coming from, but you can't be so short sighted about it.

 

Are we talking about two different things?

 

If there's a dedicated cable network for Big 12 sports, it won't be carried anywhere but in Big 12 land. Unless it's part of some super duper premium sports tier elsewhere.

 

And I doubt carriers in across the country are going to all of the sudden make it part of the basic cable package because Kevin Durant part 2 walks into the league for one season.

 

Maybe I just don't get the way a Big 12 network would work. Am I missing something?

 

 

The package will be a NATIONAL package according to what I've been told. It may be part of some sports package on DirecTV for example, to cover costs, but it won't have to be individually purchased. There are plenty of people who buy those packages (I'm one of them). I don't know the details, but I know it will be a nationally broadcast package. Dunno about blackout rules etc.

[illiniguy]

Seems to me if the B12 does end up surviving as 10, Pac-10 has gone through a lot of effort to get Colorado and probably Utah. That's great for Utah, I suppose good for CU (academically, anyway), but the Pac-10 seems like the loser here.

 

If KU really was poised to get the last Pac 10 invite, this whole thing hurts KU more than anything, imo.

 

Now Utah gets invite to #12.

 

Big 12 breaks up again in 3-5 years. The same suspects travel west. aTm goes SEC. KU gets nothing.

Newsflash, KU isn't a big deal. I would have thought this whole experience would have made that clear. College basketball doesn't mean much.

Edited June 14, 2010 by illiniguy

[Jon]

The Big East knows where ND stands. I'm not positive Frank the Tank does.

Even when the conference is threatened (which hasn't happened yet)? The Big East isn't going to push Notre Dame out of the conference if they don't join in football, but they need a plan if/when the conference gets raided. Knowing how Notre Dame will act is an important part of that plan.

[tadowdaddy]

Here's another thought for people asking why the Big 12 would get this TV contract. Fox wants to keep up/surpass with ESPN/ABC and Murdoch has the money to do so. A channel dedicated to ONLY Big 12 sports will compete with anything that the ESPN/ABC college monopoly will offer.

 

 

who's watching? The state of Texas and the other 14 people in the Big 12 footprint? No cable carriers will feel compelled to carry a Big 12 network outside of those areas.

 

So are you telling me that if someone like Kevin Durant shows up at a school in this league again (which will happen), he's going to be broadcast nationally playing against EVERY school in the league. Now the lesser teams (not talking about KSU as our entire bball schedule was televised last year) like Baylor get broadcast nationally, and gets some exposure. People WILL watch that just to see someone like Durant. I get where you're coming from, but you can't be so short sighted about it.

 

it's not just about kevin durant; the big ten network televises field hockey and soccer and volleyball and women's basketball. of course a men's basketball player who is the best player in the country is going to be a big deal, but people on the east and west coast and in the great lakes/ohio valley aren't going to want to pay an extra .75 to 1.00 to have the big xii network on their cable provider. the high profile big xii games (texas-ou, texas-kansas basketball, etc) are going to be broadcast nationally and nobody is really going to care if they miss out on ksu-baylor. the big ten network isn't included by most cable providers in the northeast and mid-atlantic states, and there are tons of big ten grads in those places.

 

 

I'm not going to argue with what you're saying and I'm not privy to all the details of the package, but from what I'm hearing and all I know is that it'll be nationally televised. That allows any Big 12 fan who is in a remote state like me in Michigan, to not have to subscribe to say ESPN + to be sure I get to watch every KSU game that is televised on ESPN +. I'll get a lot of them on the Big 12 network. Makes the big 12 available to a very it quite a large audience across the nation that went to a Big 12 school. Not every aTm game is shown across the nation, but their fans will have access to watch their team now. When aTm plays Iowa State for instance, I'm sure their fans would like to watch it. This package makes it a possibility more so than what is out there now.

Edited June 14, 2010 by tadowdaddy

[snoodmonger]

Seems to me if the B12 does end up surviving as 10, Pac-10 has gone through a lot of effort to get Colorado and probably Utah. That's great for Utah, I suppose good for CU (academically, anyway), but the Pac-10 seems like the loser here.

 

If KU really was poised to get the last Pac 10 invite, this whole thing hurts KU more than anything, imo.

 

Now Utah gets invite to #12.

 

Big 12 breaks up again in 3-5 years. The same suspects travel west. aTm goes SEC. KU gets nothing.

Newsflash, KU isn't a big deal. I would have thought this whole experience would have made that clear.

 

 

Huh? I think my post makes it pretty clear I understand that. This was our last best chance to end up somewhere meaningful. If it ends up falling through, we're screwed, because no one is really beating down our doors.

 

Thanks for "setting me straight," though.

[Jon]

I'm curious to know where the B10 network gets its income, other than from the schools themselves "paying" for their ad slots.

Primarily from subscription fees. Currently it's $0.70 per household within Big Ten states and $0.10 outside.

[illiniguy]

Seems to me if the B12 does end up surviving as 10, Pac-10 has gone through a lot of effort to get Colorado and probably Utah. That's great for Utah, I suppose good for CU (academically, anyway), but the Pac-10 seems like the loser here.

 

If KU really was poised to get the last Pac 10 invite, this whole thing hurts KU more than anything, imo.

 

Now Utah gets invite to #12.

 

Big 12 breaks up again in 3-5 years. The same suspects travel west. aTm goes SEC. KU gets nothing.

Newsflash, KU isn't a big deal. I would have thought this whole experience would have made that clear.

 

 

Huh? I think my post makes it pretty clear I understand that. This was our last best chance to end up somewhere meaningful. If it ends up falling through, we're screwed, because no one is really beating down our doors.

 

Thanks for "setting me straight," though.

I am more frustrated than anything, why the hell does college basketball not register at all in any of this?

[Tracer Bullet]

The Big East knows where ND stands. I'm not positive Frank the Tank does.

Even when the conference is threatened (which hasn't happened yet)? The Big East isn't going to push Notre Dame out of the conference if they don't join in football, but they need a plan if/when the conference gets raided. Knowing how Notre Dame will act is an important part of that plan.

 

I think they know how ND will react. Swarbrick has been in discussions with the BE during this whole thing. ND's 2 goals have been remaining independent and keeping the Big East afloat. But if the BE says "all or nothing," I think ND walks away pretty quickly. Whether that's to the Big Ten, the ACC, or what, I don't know. But the BE knows they don't get ND for football under any scenario, so keeping the ND brand for all other sports is worth it to them.

[Jon]

The Big East knows where ND stands. I'm not positive Frank the Tank does.

Even when the conference is threatened (which hasn't happened yet)? The Big East isn't going to push Notre Dame out of the conference if they don't join in football, but they need a plan if/when the conference gets raided. Knowing how Notre Dame will act is an important part of that plan.

 

I think they know how ND will react. Swarbrick has been in discussions with the BE during this whole thing. ND's 2 goals have been remaining independent and keeping the Big East afloat. But if the BE says "all or nothing," I think ND walks away pretty quickly. Whether that's to the Big Ten, the ACC, or what, I don't know. But the BE knows they don't get ND for football under any scenario, so keeping the ND brand for all other sports is worth it to them.

Right, but how threatened will the Big East/Notre Dame non-revenue sports have to be before football independence no longer becomes the priority? There's a gray area in there where Notre Dame may be the final straw the Big East's collapse instead of move elsewhere simply as a reaction to it.

[hawkeyecub]

I am more frustrated than anything, why the hell does college basketball not register at all in any of this?

 

Because it's kind of like an NBA vs. NFL thing. College basketball just isn't very big nationally until March.

[kujay]

I'm not going to argue with what you're saying and I'm not privy to all the details of the package, but from what I'm hearing and all I know is that it'll be nationally televised. That allows any Big 12 fan who is in a remote state like me in Michigan, to not have to subscribe to say ESPN + to be sure I get to watch every KSU game that is televised on ESPN +. I'll get a lot of them on the Big 12 network. Makes the big 12 available to a very it quite a large audience across the nation that went to a Big 12 school. Not every aTm game is shown across the nation, but their fans will have access to watch their team now. When aTm plays Iowa State for instance, I'm sure their fans would like to watch it. This package makes it a possibility more so than what is out there now.

 

Well I think we can take Directv as the best example. They have the B10 Network. But they don't have any other conference networks. Who else has one? So if there is a B12 Network it is reasonable to think they would carry it, but the regional cable companies outside of the Midwest? I highly doubt it.

[tadowdaddy]

I'll be really pissed if ESPN steps in and screws this up, which may be a possibility in the long term. I really think that ESPN wants the Big 12 to fail to take Fox out of the picture in terms of taking away potential ESPN/ABC dollars. I guess we'll see, but it's always a possibility. Just talking out of my ass on this one.

[illiniguy]

I am more frustrated than anything, why the hell does college basketball not register at all in any of this?

 

Because it's kind of like an NBA vs. NFL thing. College basketball just isn't very big nationally until March.

I still have to think having KU's bball program in with UCLA would be worth more to the Pac10 than Utah football.