Re: 2009-10 Chicago Bulls Thread

[17 Seconds]

This team really is stupid.

 

of the players are smart and know that winning more games this season is worse in the long run

 

nah just kidding, they suck

[WrigleyField 22]

So it seems that there is some serious talk about a trade centered around Hinrich for Ray Allen, with expiring fillers thrown in. Also a less talked about rumor of something involving Salmons for JJ Redick.

 

What do you all think of these rumors? I'd do the Salmons one. The Hinrich one, I'm less enthusiastic about, but might be persuaded based on who else is involved and what other moves we make as a follow up.

[17 Seconds]

wait... wouldn't getting rid of hinrich's contract for allen's expiring be like, really awesome?

[Sammy Sofa]

wait... wouldn't getting rid of hinrich's contract for allen's expiring be like, really awesome?

 

Yeah, I don't know why anyone wouldn't be enthusiastic for getting rid of Hinrich's contract, especially for Ray Allen.

[Tyrant]

That's part of it. Outside of the obvious good ones (Phil, Popovich, Brown, etc.)

 

Brown?

[ChiCubsFan]

wait... wouldn't getting rid of hinrich's contract for allen's expiring be like, really awesome?

 

Yeah, I don't know why anyone wouldn't be enthusiastic for getting rid of Hinrich's contract, especially for Ray Allen.

 

I cream myself every time I think about it.

[UMFan83]

So it seems that there is some serious talk about a trade centered around Hinrich for Ray Allen, with expiring fillers thrown in. Also a less talked about rumor of something involving Salmons for JJ Redick.

 

What do you all think of these rumors? I'd do the Salmons one. The Hinrich one, I'm less enthusiastic about, but might be persuaded based on who else is involved and what other moves we make as a follow up.

 

Just following up on your comment about there being rumors about this:

 

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/basketball/bulls/2028927,CST-SPT-bullnt04.article

[rawaction]

Wow, if the Bulls could get Ray Allen and JJ Redick for Hinrich, Salmons and Tyrus....I'm pretty sure I'd take that deal. It might actually make the team better THIS year, and would clear up enough room to possible get 2 FAs this summer.

[WrigleyField 22]

wait... wouldn't getting rid of hinrich's contract for allen's expiring be like, really awesome?

 

Yeah, I don't know why anyone wouldn't be enthusiastic for getting rid of Hinrich's contract, especially for Ray Allen.

Because we can get a max FA just by moving Salmons and if we get that max FA guy we want as many defensive minded players around him as possible.

 

That's not to say there aren't other defensive minded players you can acquire, but Kirk is a great role player that we have already and seems to be well respected by his teammates. We would miss Kirk's defense, and not just this year.

 

I'd have my reservations about it, but a deal for Ray Allen would be tons better than an older rumor of Kirk to LA for Morrison and Sasha.

[WrigleyField 22]

Here's another thing to think about:

 

We lose both Hinrich and Salmons. That both goes towards a max FA. The rest goes to another high priced FA with a contract of at least 4 years. Both of these are backloaded deals that increase the maximum 8% each year. Now this organization is notoriously cheap. Deng is getting class to his max raise of 10.5% each year. After next year Noah will require a sizable contract, probably at 10.5% raises, and the next year Rose will require a max contract with 10.5% rasies. And there is talk about a 2011 lockout that will result in significantly lower salaries going forward. Are we gonna pay for all of this? If not, where is that money going to come from. Not Rose or the MAX guy we get this season. Not Noah because center is a valuable position. Then you have Deng or the other FA that we sign, both of who are likely overpaid and difficult to move.

 

Financially it makes more sense to allow Kirk to expire just as we extend Rose. I know fans don't want to consider finances, but the fact of the matter is that teams need to and they do. This particular organization also happens to be one of the stingiest around. It just doesn't seem to work.

[Flames24Rulz]

Ray Allen for Kirk Hinrich and other trash would be a wet dream. That's exactly why it won't happen.

[RedFlash]

Here's another thing to think about:

 

We lose both Hinrich and Salmons. That both goes towards a max FA. The rest goes to another high priced FA with a contract of at least 4 years. Both of these are backloaded deals that increase the maximum 8% each year. Now this organization is notoriously cheap. Deng is getting class to his max raise of 10.5% each year. After next year Noah will require a sizable contract, probably at 10.5% raises, and the next year Rose will require a max contract with 10.5% rasies. And there is talk about a 2011 lockout that will result in significantly lower salaries going forward. Are we gonna pay for all of this? If not, where is that money going to come from. Not Rose or the MAX guy we get this season. Not Noah because center is a valuable position. Then you have Deng or the other FA that we sign, both of who are likely overpaid and difficult to move.

 

Financially it makes more sense to allow Kirk to expire just as we extend Rose. I know fans don't want to consider finances, but the fact of the matter is that teams need to and they do. This particular organization also happens to be one of the stingiest around. It just doesn't seem to work.

 

Interesting point, but for all the crap that Reinsdorf has to listen to he has said in the past that he would pay the luxury tax if it went to building a contender.

 

In fact here is the exact quote:

 

I wouldn’t mind paying the tax if it’s an intelligent expenditure. When you pay the tax, you have to do it for a player that’s worth it. I don’t care what the tax would be. If I felt we had a guy who would put us over the top and put us in the Finals, I’d pay the tax. I wouldn’t hesitate. I haven’t seen that guy that Gar or John has brought to me that says, ‘Pay the tax and we’re in the Finals.’

 

Which leads me to believe that if GarPax convinces Reinsdorf that Wade/James (moreso then Bosh/Boozer/Johnson, etc) is "the guy who put the Bulls over the top" then Reinsdorf will authorize their pursuit. So, I don't think it is about the Bulls being cheap, it's about who to spend the money on, instead how much. Remember Reinsdorf has been burn by the likes of Brad Miller, Ron Mercer, Eddie Robinson, and Ben Wallace, so its understandable that he is cautious with his money.

[WrigleyField 22]

I will say that if we decide to move Hinrich for expirings, one revolving around Hinrich for Allen is the best I've heard. I really hope that it is Jerome James and not Thomas, although you really need one of Thomas or Salmons because of luxury tax concerns.

 

Possible deal:

Hinrich, James, Thomas

for

Allen, Daniels, Shelden Williams

(save $625,757)

 

The rumored Salmons deal was Salmons for Reddick and Anthony Johnson, but Orlando would have to include a little more salary... not sure about that one....

[illiniguy]

Why would the Celtics want to do that trade? Cause Danny Ainge thinks he's Kirk Hinrich?

[SouthSideRyan]

wait... wouldn't getting rid of hinrich's contract for allen's expiring be like, really awesome?

 

Yeah, I don't know why anyone wouldn't be enthusiastic for getting rid of Hinrich's contract, especially for Ray Allen.

 

I know somebody who wouldn't be.

[SouthSideRyan]

So even if it was Thomas, yeah we help our frontcourt depth, nevermind that we have no damn backcourt depth. Tony Allen still winds up as the first guard off the bench, and now you have Hinrich starting instead of a lethal shooter like Allen (who fits perfectly on the team as presently constructed).

 

Does this team really need 3 viable backups in the frontcourt? Yeah if Garnett goes down the frontcourt has serious issues, but Tyrus Thomas ain't going to solve the issues. If Garnett can't play, none of this matters, we aren't winning a title. If he can play, you're probably going to want somebody on the team who can shoot the damn ball rather than being concerned with the 10 minutes per game Tyrus Thomas will take from Brian Scalabrine.

 

And I HATE Brian Scalabrine.

[UMFan83]

Here's another thing to think about:

 

We lose both Hinrich and Salmons. That both goes towards a max FA. The rest goes to another high priced FA with a contract of at least 4 years. Both of these are backloaded deals that increase the maximum 8% each year. Now this organization is notoriously cheap. Deng is getting class to his max raise of 10.5% each year. After next year Noah will require a sizable contract, probably at 10.5% raises, and the next year Rose will require a max contract with 10.5% rasies. And there is talk about a 2011 lockout that will result in significantly lower salaries going forward. Are we gonna pay for all of this? If not, where is that money going to come from. Not Rose or the MAX guy we get this season. Not Noah because center is a valuable position. Then you have Deng or the other FA that we sign, both of who are likely overpaid and difficult to move.

 

Financially it makes more sense to allow Kirk to expire just as we extend Rose. I know fans don't want to consider finances, but the fact of the matter is that teams need to and they do. This particular organization also happens to be one of the stingiest around. It just doesn't seem to work.

 

Eh, not sure I buy that. Yes the Bulls have been cheap, but for years they have said that they are willing to go well into the luxury tax to pay for a contending team. Of course they aren't going to go into lux tax to sign like Ben Gordon to an extension and have tons of 41-46 win seasons and 1st round playoff exits. It doesn't make sense. It's a fiscal policy designed not to burden the team with a bunch of bad contracts that don't get them anywhere.

 

Now the lockout thing does add a wrinkle to things. There's been talk about making a hard cap with no more "bird rights" and stuff like that to have teams way over the cap. In addition they are saying it's possible that they will make all contracts only guaranteed for 2 years. Now the players will have to pass this....most of them live paycheck to paycheck sadly, and cannot deal with more than a month or two of a lockout. From what I've heard, current contracts will be grandfathered in, and teams will be allowed to keep their current players over the cap until that player retires or leaves the team. So the Bulls would be able to live with the team as contstructed, but who knows for how long. Regardless, I trust that GarPax and Reinsdorf have all this in mind when making their decisions. Do you think the Bulls are going to go out and sign 2 big FAs and then not be able to afford Derrick Rose, the hometown boy and the Bulls ultimate marketing dream? A team with Rose, a max FA (assuming they aren't throwing max dollars at like Kevin Martin or something, and another near max guy can probably compete with a reasonable supporting cast.

[chuckywang]

wait... wouldn't getting rid of hinrich's contract for allen's expiring be like, really awesome?

 

Yeah, I don't know why anyone wouldn't be enthusiastic for getting rid of Hinrich's contract, especially for Ray Allen.

 

I know somebody who wouldn't be.

 

I know you're a Kansas homer and all that but, you know, Ray Allen is better at basketball than Kirk Hinrich.

[Guest]

wait... wouldn't getting rid of hinrich's contract for allen's expiring be like, really awesome?

 

Yeah, I don't know why anyone wouldn't be enthusiastic for getting rid of Hinrich's contract, especially for Ray Allen.

 

I know somebody who wouldn't be.

 

I know you're a Kansas homer and all that but, you know, Ray Allen is better at basketball than Kirk Hinrich.

Celtics fan.

[illiniguy]

wait... wouldn't getting rid of hinrich's contract for allen's expiring be like, really awesome?

 

Yeah, I don't know why anyone wouldn't be enthusiastic for getting rid of Hinrich's contract, especially for Ray Allen.

 

I know somebody who wouldn't be.

 

I know you're a Kansas homer and all that but, you know, Ray Allen is better at basketball than Kirk Hinrich.

Celtics fan.

Plus as a Kansas homer, which he isn't, wouldn't he be unhappy with Paul Pierce's team getting worse and hurting his chance at another title?

[Andy]

wait... wouldn't getting rid of hinrich's contract for allen's expiring be like, really awesome?

 

Yeah, I don't know why anyone wouldn't be enthusiastic for getting rid of Hinrich's contract, especially for Ray Allen.

 

I know somebody who wouldn't be.

 

I know you're a Kansas homer and all that but, you know, Ray Allen is better at basketball than Kirk Hinrich.

SSR is a soul-sucking Celtics fan.

[SouthSideRyan]

 

Yeah, I don't know why anyone wouldn't be enthusiastic for getting rid of Hinrich's contract, especially for Ray Allen.

 

I know somebody who wouldn't be.

 

I know you're a Kansas homer and all that but, you know, Ray Allen is better at basketball than Kirk Hinrich.

Celtics fan.

Plus as a Kansas homer, which he isn't, wouldn't he be unhappy with Paul Pierce's team getting worse and hurting his chance at another title?

 

The real question is how would this affect my beloved White Sox

[RedFlash]

The Bulls have decided to shut down Joakim Noah (plantar fasciitis) until the All-Star break.

 

It's a smart move by the Bulls and it should help Noah's owners in the long run. He was severly hobbled in his last two starts and he can't afford that with his lack of offensive skills. He'll miss the next four games but will get a 12 days off thanks to the All-Star break. Brad Miller and Tyrus Thomas will benefit the most. Feb. 4 - 6:43 pm et

 

Good. As well as Noah has played this first half, it was obviously with his foot injury he needed a break.

[GeoSoto420]

That sucks but it's the right decision for the Bulls. Noah really hasn't been contributing as much as he was at the beginning of the season with this injury so let him get some rest and hopefully he finishes the season strong. We really need Brad Miller to step up in Noah's absence now like he did in the Houston game.

[illiniguy]

 

The real question is how would this affect my beloved White Sox

Probably wouldn't help them at all. Peavy lover.