Re: 2009-10 Chicago Bulls Thread

[Tyrant]

Also, regarding Tyrus, a guy at Yahoo sports had a pretty good take on it, I thought.

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Tyrus-Thomas-can-be-yours;_ylt=AjcdACj7rRQaI7Jh7GHzUJq8vLYF?urn=nba,218576

 

I can't think of a single player, with the possible exception of New York's David Lee(notes), that has been jerked around more than Thomas. And I can't think of a single player, with no exception, that has acted like more of a prat than Tyrus. A nasty combination.

 

One doesn't lead to the other, but it doesn't help. Thomas was drafted as a project by the Bulls in 2006, but he was never treated like a project. Instead, he was treated like some four-year college starter that had been on CBS too many times to mention, and someone who was used to the grind. Thomas wasn't used to the grind. He was a basketball scrub until his late teens. He only had one year of slapping the backboards at LSU. He was ready, but he wasn't ready.

 

Thomas played less than a year and a half under Skiles, but it may have well been two years. Because Skiles was replaced on an interim basis by Jim Boylan, a pointless move in retrospect, because Boylan was Skiles' number two, and he promptly spent the entirety of his obviously-interim gig taking out Skiles' indirect frustrations with certain players out on the kids who had wronged Boylan's buddy the most.

 

So Thomas would leave the game, for long stretches, for no apparent reason. And, just as much, he would stay in the game for no apparent reason. Almost to a night, the good play would go unrewarded, and the bad play would go unacknowledged. How in the hell was this kid, this man, supposed to learn?

 

Left to his own devices, the project acted like - and I know you're shocked - a project. Until it was/is time for Chicago to write off another cheapo lottery pick, and take in the savings.

[Sammy Sofa]

Also, regarding Tyrus, a guy at Yahoo sports had a pretty good take on it, I thought.

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Tyrus-Thomas-can-be-yours;_ylt=AjcdACj7rRQaI7Jh7GHzUJq8vLYF?urn=nba,218576

 

I can't think of a single player, with the possible exception of New York's David Lee(notes), that has been jerked around more than Thomas. And I can't think of a single player, with no exception, that has acted like more of a prat than Tyrus. A nasty combination.

 

One doesn't lead to the other, but it doesn't help. Thomas was drafted as a project by the Bulls in 2006, but he was never treated like a project. Instead, he was treated like some four-year college starter that had been on CBS too many times to mention, and someone who was used to the grind. Thomas wasn't used to the grind. He was a basketball scrub until his late teens. He only had one year of slapping the backboards at LSU. He was ready, but he wasn't ready.

 

Thomas played less than a year and a half under Skiles, but it may have well been two years. Because Skiles was replaced on an interim basis by Jim Boylan, a pointless move in retrospect, because Boylan was Skiles' number two, and he promptly spent the entirety of his obviously-interim gig taking out Skiles' indirect frustrations with certain players out on the kids who had wronged Boylan's buddy the most.

 

So Thomas would leave the game, for long stretches, for no apparent reason. And, just as much, he would stay in the game for no apparent reason. Almost to a night, the good play would go unrewarded, and the bad play would go unacknowledged. How in the hell was this kid, this man, supposed to learn?

 

Left to his own devices, the project acted like - and I know you're shocked - a project. Until it was/is time for Chicago to write off another cheapo lottery pick, and take in the savings.

 

Good analysis. Tyrus clearly has issues, but he also clearly has talent. He needed (and still needs) a coaching staff and older, established players to develop him and harness that ability. The Bulls of the last few years have most definitely not had that environment.

[Andy]

Barkley said Vinny should be coach of the year.

 

Did he have any reasoning behind that? Because that's clearly insane.

 

He basically said they have no talent but are still in contention.

Contention for what exactly? We're .500 at the moment. Chuck's a little nuts.

 

That being said, I really hope we manage to get matched up with Boston again in the playoffs. We're not going to win the title anyway and it'd be nice to have a shot at a little revenge.

[jersey cubs fan]

Barkley said Vinny should be coach of the year.

 

Did he have any reasoning behind that? Because that's clearly insane.

 

He basically said they have no talent but are still in contention.

Contention for what exactly? We're .500 at the moment. Chuck's a little nuts.

 

That being said, I really hope we manage to get matched up with Boston again in the playoffs. We're not going to win the title anyway and it'd be nice to have a shot at a little revenge.

 

Sorry, not contention, but rather in the playoff hunt.

[Andy]

Barkley said Vinny should be coach of the year.

 

Did he have any reasoning behind that? Because that's clearly insane.

 

He basically said they have no talent but are still in contention.

Contention for what exactly? We're .500 at the moment. Chuck's a little nuts.

 

That being said, I really hope we manage to get matched up with Boston again in the playoffs. We're not going to win the title anyway and it'd be nice to have a shot at a little revenge.

 

Sorry, not contention, but rather in the playoff hunt.

I know that's what he meant, but 'contention' seems a pretty loose term to apply. If we were in the other conference we wouldn't even be sniffing the playoffs.

 

I'm not as down on Vinny as I was a month ago, obviously, but coach of the year is crazy talk.

[jersey cubs fan]

I know that's what he meant, but 'contention' seems a pretty loose term to apply. If we were in the other conference we wouldn't even be sniffing the playoffs.

 

I'm not as down on Vinny as I was a month ago, obviously, but coach of the year is crazy talk.

 

What I'm saying is forget the word contention, I don't recall if that is what he said. All I remember is CTL was on in the background and Chuck was talking about Vinny having a pretty weak team, in the playoffs, and that's why he should get the award. He probably never said contention and specifically made a point that they have no chance against the top teams in the east.

[Soul]

Understood. It's still a crazy thing to say. Sometimes Barkley just says stuff to say it.

 

The most interesting thing I've seen recently was a CBS sports article that showed how the Bulls could trade Tyrus, find a taker for Salmons, and wind up with enough cap room to afford 2 max free agents.

[Bobson Dugnutt]

I thought someone (WrigleyField 22?) explained earlier in the thread that without dealing Hinrich, Salmons, and Deng, two max contracts will not be possible.

[Magnetic Curses]

I thought someone (WrigleyField 22?) explained earlier in the thread that without dealing Hinrich, Salmons, and Deng, two max contracts will not be possible.

 

if the bulls can trade for free agent like stoudamire or bosh, then sign lebron or wade quickly in the offseason, they can use the bird rights of one of the other guys to go over the cap legally. this is all contingent upon being able to clear enough room to sign not only one max free agent but make signing two free agnets economically feasible, especially since reinsdorf hates the bulls and doesn't care if they do well or not.

[UMFan83]

Does anyone else wonder things like 'how are the Bulls going to have enough players to field a team if they let Miller, James, Tim Thomas, Tyrus Thomas, Pargo, Hunter and Brown go and use almost all of that cap space to sign a max FA? (Also in this scenario I'm assuming they move Salmons to make a max FA possible)

 

Let's say the cap drops to $52 million. The Bulls would be at ~$31 million. After they spend $17.5 on a max FA, they are at $48.5 M for 7 players. I guess now that I'm typing this out it makes sense that they can get 5 players for $3.5 million, especially with a late 1st and the LLE and MLE (if available). Also, depending on timing they can always resign Miller, Pargo, Hunter or Brown over the cap.

[RedFlash]

especially since reinsdorf hates the bulls and doesn't care if they do well or not.

 

Reinsdorf has also said he would pay the luxury tax for guys who clearly can put the team over the top. So maybe...

[Bobson Dugnutt]

Does anyone else wonder things like 'how are the Bulls going to have enough players to field a team if they let Miller, James, Tim Thomas, Tyrus Thomas, Pargo, Hunter and Brown go and use almost all of that cap space to sign a max FA? (Also in this scenario I'm assuming they move Salmons to make a max FA possible)

 

Let's say the cap drops to $52 million. The Bulls would be at ~$31 million. After they spend $17.5 on a max FA, they are at $48.5 M for 7 players. I guess now that I'm typing this out it makes sense that they can get 5 players for $3.5 million, especially with a late 1st and the LLE and MLE (if available). Also, depending on timing they can always resign Miller, Pargo, Hunter or Brown over the cap.

 

Tim Thomas is no longer a Bull.

 

Assuming one max contract free agent, they'll have max FA, Rose, Noah, Deng, Gibson, Johnson, and a mid-first round draft pick. Also, what's the deal with Omer Asik? Isn't he slated to come over after this season? That leaves the roster at 8 players. Would they have enough money to sign someone like Morrow to fill the other guard spot, or someone like Lee to round out the front court, depending on what position their max contract guy is?

[UMFan83]

Does anyone else wonder things like 'how are the Bulls going to have enough players to field a team if they let Miller, James, Tim Thomas, Tyrus Thomas, Pargo, Hunter and Brown go and use almost all of that cap space to sign a max FA? (Also in this scenario I'm assuming they move Salmons to make a max FA possible)

 

Let's say the cap drops to $52 million. The Bulls would be at ~$31 million. After they spend $17.5 on a max FA, they are at $48.5 M for 7 players. I guess now that I'm typing this out it makes sense that they can get 5 players for $3.5 million, especially with a late 1st and the LLE and MLE (if available). Also, depending on timing they can always resign Miller, Pargo, Hunter or Brown over the cap.

 

Tim Thomas is no longer a Bull.

 

Assuming one max contract free agent, they'll have max FA, Rose, Noah, Deng, Gibson, Johnson, and a mid-first round draft pick. Also, what's the deal with Omer Asik? Isn't he slated to come over after this season? That leaves the roster at 8 players. Would they have enough money to sign someone like Morrow to fill the other guard spot, or someone like Lee to round out the front court, depending on what position their max contract guy is?

 

He's no longer a Bulls but he's under contract (we bought him out). That's what I meant about losing him (his contract)

 

Omer Asik broke his collarbone so he's currently not playing. His contract is up after the season though so who knows what's gonna happen but he'll probably be here.

[Bobson Dugnutt]

Does anyone else wonder things like 'how are the Bulls going to have enough players to field a team if they let Miller, James, Tim Thomas, Tyrus Thomas, Pargo, Hunter and Brown go and use almost all of that cap space to sign a max FA? (Also in this scenario I'm assuming they move Salmons to make a max FA possible)

 

Let's say the cap drops to $52 million. The Bulls would be at ~$31 million. After they spend $17.5 on a max FA, they are at $48.5 M for 7 players. I guess now that I'm typing this out it makes sense that they can get 5 players for $3.5 million, especially with a late 1st and the LLE and MLE (if available). Also, depending on timing they can always resign Miller, Pargo, Hunter or Brown over the cap.

 

Tim Thomas is no longer a Bull.

 

Assuming one max contract free agent, they'll have max FA, Rose, Noah, Deng, Gibson, Johnson, and a mid-first round draft pick. Also, what's the deal with Omer Asik? Isn't he slated to come over after this season? That leaves the roster at 8 players. Would they have enough money to sign someone like Morrow to fill the other guard spot, or someone like Lee to round out the front court, depending on what position their max contract guy is?

 

He's no longer a Bulls but he's under contract (we bought him out). That's what I meant about losing him (his contract)

 

Omer Asik broke his collarbone so he's currently not playing. His contract is up after the season though so who knows what's gonna happen but he'll probably be here.

 

But what does Tim Thomas have to do with fielding a team next year? He's not on the roster now, so he shouldn't be part of your concern that they won't have enough players to fill a roster next year.

[UMFan83]

Does anyone else wonder things like 'how are the Bulls going to have enough players to field a team if they let Miller, James, Tim Thomas, Tyrus Thomas, Pargo, Hunter and Brown go and use almost all of that cap space to sign a max FA? (Also in this scenario I'm assuming they move Salmons to make a max FA possible)

 

Let's say the cap drops to $52 million. The Bulls would be at ~$31 million. After they spend $17.5 on a max FA, they are at $48.5 M for 7 players. I guess now that I'm typing this out it makes sense that they can get 5 players for $3.5 million, especially with a late 1st and the LLE and MLE (if available). Also, depending on timing they can always resign Miller, Pargo, Hunter or Brown over the cap.

 

Tim Thomas is no longer a Bull.

 

Assuming one max contract free agent, they'll have max FA, Rose, Noah, Deng, Gibson, Johnson, and a mid-first round draft pick. Also, what's the deal with Omer Asik? Isn't he slated to come over after this season? That leaves the roster at 8 players. Would they have enough money to sign someone like Morrow to fill the other guard spot, or someone like Lee to round out the front court, depending on what position their max contract guy is?

 

He's no longer a Bulls but he's under contract (we bought him out). That's what I meant about losing him (his contract)

 

Omer Asik broke his collarbone so he's currently not playing. His contract is up after the season though so who knows what's gonna happen but he'll probably be here.

 

But what does Tim Thomas have to do with fielding a team next year? He's not on the roster now, so he shouldn't be part of your concern that they won't have enough players to fill a roster next year.

 

No he's not. I'm simply listing players who are under contract for us this year so I can mentally erase their salary from our current number.

[Tyrant]

I guess now that I'm typing this out it makes sense that they can get 5 players for $3.5 million, especially with a late 1st and the LLE and MLE (if available).

 

Cap holds are like $485,000, so they'd have room to fill out the roster under the cap.

[Soul]

I dug up the CBS sports article if anyone is interested:

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/12888861/bulls-could-go-from-marginal-to-marvelous-by-playing-their-cap-right

[WrigleyField 22]

I thought someone (WrigleyField 22?) explained earlier in the thread that without dealing Hinrich, Salmons, and Deng, two max contracts will not be possible.

 

if the bulls can trade for free agent like stoudamire or bosh, then sign lebron or wade quickly in the offseason, they can use the bird rights of one of the other guys to go over the cap legally. this is all contingent upon being able to clear enough room to sign not only one max free agent but make signing two free agnets economically feasible, especially since reinsdorf hates the bulls and doesn't care if they do well or not.

This is also highly contingent on the other teams agreeing to sign and trades in which they are willing to take back our resigned players.

[UMFan83]

So Rose took a big tumble 2 minutes into the game tonight and had to be helped off the court. They said it's a bruised right hip, and X-Rays were negative but he will not return tonight. The big question for my anyways is will he be able to play in the All Star Game? I planned my weekend around watching a Bull play in the game for the first time in 12 years, and right now that's in serious doubt.

 

Also the Bulls trailed 41-17 after the first quarter.

 

That's about as bad of a 12 minute period as a team can have. The Magic aren't even trying and grabbing 75% of all possible rebounds.

[GeoSoto420]

Why do all my favorite teams have horrible luck? I'm waiting for the Blackhawks to all get the black plague at this point.

[SpongeWorthy]

Hah. That figures.

 

Well, I guess if he can be back for the next regular season game I'd say just sit him through the break.

[Tyrant]

So Rose took a big tumble 2 minutes into the game tonight and had to be helped off the court. They said it's a bruised right hip, and X-Rays were negative but he will not return tonight. The big question for my anyways is will he be able to play in the All Star Game? I planned my weekend around watching a Bull play in the game for the first time in 12 years, and right now that's in serious doubt.

 

Also the Bulls trailed 41-17 after the first quarter.

 

That's about as bad of a 12 minute period as a team can have. The Magic aren't even trying and grabbing 75% of all possible rebounds.

 

Dude, cheer up. Rose will miss the rest of the year with the injury, Bulls will go 5-27 the rest of the way and get into the lottery. They'll trade Hinrich and Deng for expirings. The ping pong balls will bounce their way, they'll draft John Wall, sign LeBron and Bosh and then roll next season with a lineup of:

 

Rose

Wall

LeBron

Bosh

Noah

 

78-4.

[GeoSoto420]

Does Luol Deng ever pass the ball? This guy either shoots or travels on every possession.

[17 Seconds]

im an idiot, so can someone please tell me what a "max contract" is

[UMFan83]

im an idiot, so can someone please tell me what a "max contract" is

 

Under the CBA, teams can only offer players contracts up to a certain amount. In order to keep FA's from defecting to other teams, the player's current team can offer more money than another team, which is why sign and trades are so popular. I think right now a max contract is 6/90 (6 years being the most years you can offer and $15 million a year being the most annual salary you can offer) for a new team and 7/$120 is the most the current team can offer (7 years/17.5 per)