Harden done for season, Gorzelanny to rotation

[TruffleShuffle]

The 5.6 million number isn't realistic. If the Cubs offer arbitration and Harden accepts he'll probably get at least 10 and potentially 12-13

 

i have a hard time believing that, considering that he didn't pitch many innings in 2006-07 and has just been average this season.

[dew1679666265]

The 5.6 million number isn't realistic. If the Cubs offer arbitration and Harden accepts he'll probably get at least 10 and potentially 12-13

 

i have a hard time believing that, considering that he didn't pitch many innings in 2006-07 and has just been average this season.

 

He's making $7 million this year. You think he'll get a pay cut down to $5-something million?

[SouthSideRyan]

The 5.6 million number isn't realistic. If the Cubs offer arbitration and Harden accepts he'll probably get at least 10 and potentially 12-13

 

i have a hard time believing that, considering that he didn't pitch many innings in 2006-07 and has just been average this season.

 

He's making $7 million this year. You think he'll get a pay cut down to $5-something million?

 

Based on his 2006?

[CubColtPacer]

The 5.6 million number isn't realistic. If the Cubs offer arbitration and Harden accepts he'll probably get at least 10 and potentially 12-13

 

i have a hard time believing that, considering that he didn't pitch many innings in 2006-07 and has just been average this season.

 

He's 19-11 over the last 2 years with 353 strikeouts combined and a combined ERA of just over 3. Those are the numbers his lawyers are probably going to keep hammering away in the arbitration hearing. The Cubs couldn't probably risk offering less than 8.5, and then they'd have to settle for close to 10 and if they set the figure too low than Harden could roll the dice and quite possibly get more than that.

 

I don't think the low inning totals in 2006-2007 are going to have a huge bearing on the case. The fact that he's only had 300 innings or so over the last 2 years will hurt Harden, but for the most part he can say he was just following club orders on that one (skipping starts, etc.) which helped deflate his innings unnecessarily. It won't likely be true, but it would be a reasonable argument, and he doesn't have a ridiculous amount of DL time over those 2 years.

 

Now the Cubs could get help at deflating that number if his medicals look poor at all, but if his medicals look poor they probably won't put themselves in that situation to begin with.

[Cubswin11]

The 5.6 million number isn't realistic. If the Cubs offer arbitration and Harden accepts he'll probably get at least 10 and potentially 12-13

 

i have a hard time believing that, considering that he didn't pitch many innings in 2006-07 and has just been average this season.

 

He's making $7 million this year. You think he'll get a pay cut down to $5-something million?

I think the absolute minimum he makes next year, if he goes through arby with the Cubs, is $8.5 mil. something around $9.5-$11 mil. is the most realistic and reasonable salary IMO.

[dew1679666265]

The 5.6 million number isn't realistic. If the Cubs offer arbitration and Harden accepts he'll probably get at least 10 and potentially 12-13

 

i have a hard time believing that, considering that he didn't pitch many innings in 2006-07 and has just been average this season.

 

He's making $7 million this year. You think he'll get a pay cut down to $5-something million?

 

Based on his 2006?

 

It's probably based more off of this year and/or his last three years. He may not be in for a gigantic raise, but I really don't think he'll get less than he's currently making.

[dew1679666265]

The 5.6 million number isn't realistic. If the Cubs offer arbitration and Harden accepts he'll probably get at least 10 and potentially 12-13

 

i have a hard time believing that, considering that he didn't pitch many innings in 2006-07 and has just been average this season.

 

He's making $7 million this year. You think he'll get a pay cut down to $5-something million?

I think the absolute minimum he makes next year, if he goes through arby with the Cubs, is $8.5 mil. something around $9.5-$11 mil. is the most realistic and reasonable salary IMO.

 

I probably agree with that.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Rotoworld is reporting that the Cubs arent shutting him down

According to ESPN Chicago's Bruce Levine, the Cubs are not shutting Rich Harden down for the rest of the season.

[illiniguy]

He's shown that he can stay healthy this year. Made 30 starts. I imagine he's looking for a long term contract and won't take arbitration. But, we gotta save that $10 million for Chone Figgins.

[Cubswin11]

He's shown that he can stay healthy this year. Made 30 starts. I imagine he's looking for a long term contract and won't take arbitration. But, we gotta save that $10 million for Chone Figgins.

I am fine with giving him a 2-3 year deal, he won't be terribly expensive and there aren't that great of options through FA Harden is better than Bedard and is healthy more often, Lackey is going to be expensive and there really isn't anyone else. There are no realistic upgrades through trades (Halladay, King Felix) we'd have to unload the farm just to start negotiations and we probably don't got the talent. As long as the deal is under 25-30 mil. I could live with a 2-3 year deal for Harden as long as there are IP, GS, etc. clauses in it.

[TruffleShuffle]

The 5.6 million number isn't realistic. If the Cubs offer arbitration and Harden accepts he'll probably get at least 10 and potentially 12-13

 

i have a hard time believing that, considering that he didn't pitch many innings in 2006-07 and has just been average this season.

 

He's making $7 million this year. You think he'll get a pay cut down to $5-something million?

 

i didn't say that. but i don't think there's any way he gets into the $12-13M area. remember, the largest-ever arbitration award is $10M to ryan howard, after two years in which he hit 105 home runs, drove in nearly 300 runs and had an OPS over 1.000. harden will be coming off an average year, an outstanding year, and then two years in which he pitched well when he was healthy, which was almost never. i don't even think harden would get $12-13M on the free market, let alone in arbitration. i see $10M as the ceiling that he could ask for an reasonably get.

[Soonernation]

I say offer arbitration in the off season, If he accepts, super, if not, pocket the draft picks.

 

 

I agree

[Soonernation]

The 5.6 million number isn't realistic. If the Cubs offer arbitration and Harden accepts he'll probably get at least 10 and potentially 12-13

 

i have a hard time believing that, considering that he didn't pitch many innings in 2006-07 and has just been average this season.

 

He's making $7 million this year. You think he'll get a pay cut down to $5-something million?

 

Nope, that's not how arbitration works usually; i would expect 8.5 million for him if it goes that far

[SouthSideRyan]

The 5.6 million number isn't realistic. If the Cubs offer arbitration and Harden accepts he'll probably get at least 10 and potentially 12-13

 

i have a hard time believing that, considering that he didn't pitch many innings in 2006-07 and has just been average this season.

 

He's making $7 million this year. You think he'll get a pay cut down to $5-something million?

 

i didn't say that. but i don't think there's any way he gets into the $12-13M area. remember, the largest-ever arbitration award is $10M to ryan howard, after two years in which he hit 105 home runs, drove in nearly 300 runs and had an OPS over 1.000. harden will be coming off an average year, an outstanding year, and then two years in which he pitched well when he was healthy, which was almost never. i don't even think harden would get $12-13M on the free market, let alone in arbitration. i see $10M as the ceiling that he could ask for an reasonably get.

 

The largest ever pre-FA arbitration award was Howard. Maddux made 14.75M in arbitration 7 years ago.

[CubColtPacer]

The 5.6 million number isn't realistic. If the Cubs offer arbitration and Harden accepts he'll probably get at least 10 and potentially 12-13

 

i have a hard time believing that, considering that he didn't pitch many innings in 2006-07 and has just been average this season.

 

He's making $7 million this year. You think he'll get a pay cut down to $5-something million?

 

i didn't say that. but i don't think there's any way he gets into the $12-13M area. remember, the largest-ever arbitration award is $10M to ryan howard, after two years in which he hit 105 home runs, drove in nearly 300 runs and had an OPS over 1.000. harden will be coming off an average year, an outstanding year, and then two years in which he pitched well when he was healthy, which was almost never. i don't even think harden would get $12-13M on the free market, let alone in arbitration. i see $10M as the ceiling that he could ask for an reasonably get.

 

The largest ever pre-FA arbitration award was Howard. Maddux made 14.75M in arbitration 7 years ago.

 

K-Rod also made 10 million in an arbitration case prior to free agency (he wasn't in his first arbitration year like Howard was which made Howard's case special).

 

Besides, looking at just the cases that make it to arbitration doesn't tell nearly the whole story. Most of the time, teams don't want to make their stars mad so they settle before arbitration. Howard would have made either 14 million or 18 million this year in arbitration. Z made 12.4 million after 2006 by settling instead of going to arbitration.

 

And remember, in Howard's case he wasn't allowed to make full market value. He wasn't deep enough into his arbitration years to get more (as he proved by asking for a lot more the next year). Harden can make full market value as he can be compared to players in free agency from the last couple of years while Howard couldn't under the rules.

 

I suspect an arbiter would decide that Harden's true value was somewhere between 9-10.5 million. The way I could see Harden possibly getting 12-13 is if he submits a claim for 12.5, the Cubs submit a claim for 8, and the arbiter decides his value is 10.5 so he gives Harden the win and awards him 12.5.

[TruffleShuffle]

The largest ever pre-FA arbitration award was Howard. Maddux made 14.75M in arbitration 7 years ago.

 

that was a settlement between the braves and maddux. i believe the highest award in arbitration is still $10M (howard, k-rod, soriano). still, i don't see harden being able to reasonably ask for $12-$13M.

 

and i don't really see his motivation for taking a deal of one year and about $10M. the possibilities for him - he has another largely-healthy year in 2010, similar to 2008, and he'll cash in with a nice big-time deal. but he's only had one year that was close to that, 2005, and he still only threw 128 innings that year. he missed a lot of time in 2006 and 2007, and he was average in 2009. if he's average or hurt for a lot of 2010, he'll cost himself a good amount of money. he'll be going into free agency having thrown nearly 300 innings the last two years and pitching pretty well during that time; seems way too risky for a guy with his profile to take a one year deal and hope for better things next offseason.

[dew1679666265]

The 5.6 million number isn't realistic. If the Cubs offer arbitration and Harden accepts he'll probably get at least 10 and potentially 12-13

 

i have a hard time believing that, considering that he didn't pitch many innings in 2006-07 and has just been average this season.

 

He's making $7 million this year. You think he'll get a pay cut down to $5-something million?

 

i didn't say that. but i don't think there's any way he gets into the $12-13M area. remember, the largest-ever arbitration award is $10M to ryan howard, after two years in which he hit 105 home runs, drove in nearly 300 runs and had an OPS over 1.000. harden will be coming off an average year, an outstanding year, and then two years in which he pitched well when he was healthy, which was almost never. i don't even think harden would get $12-13M on the free market, let alone in arbitration. i see $10M as the ceiling that he could ask for an reasonably get.

 

Ah, ok sorry. The only number I saw quoted earlier was a $5.6 million number and I thought you meant that's all the Cubs would have to pay. I could see Harden in the $9-10 million range, but not likely much, if any, more than that.

[dew1679666265]

The 5.6 million number isn't realistic. If the Cubs offer arbitration and Harden accepts he'll probably get at least 10 and potentially 12-13

 

i have a hard time believing that, considering that he didn't pitch many innings in 2006-07 and has just been average this season.

 

He's making $7 million this year. You think he'll get a pay cut down to $5-something million?

 

Nope, that's not how arbitration works usually; i would expect 8.5 million for him if it goes that far

 

I know that. I was trying to figure out exactly what Truffle was saying.

[Bote McBoteface]

not offering harden arbitration would be extremely idiotic. that means they'd be required to offer him $5.6M, which is a bargain, and he wouldn't take it because he'll get more than that on the open market.

 

This is the same team that declared Angel Guzman ineligible to pitch in a game because of an injury, then wound up pitching him 2 innings that game and placing him on the DL for a month afterward. They're easily stupid enough not to offer arb to Harden in fear of getting "stuck" with him.

[hardcorecubfan]

I agree. I know people are saying the Cubs are absolutely done, but a 5.5 game deficit isn't impossible to overcome with 19 games remaining. Why is everyone talking about laying down so early?

 

Because there's a 1 percent chance they make the playoffs.

 

I am an eternal optomist also and remember 1969 when the Cubs tanked it in the last month, maybe St. Louis will hit the same fate

[Tyrant]

I am an eternal optomist

 

Were you trying to spell optimist or optometrist?

[Tim M]

http://muskat.mlblogs.com/archives/2009/09/924_harden_done_for_season.html

 

He's officially done for the year.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Apparently, according to Mully and Hanley, Harden requested to be shut down for the remained of the season, and they were ripping him hard for it. Im not too bothered for it. I mean we knew what we were getting when we traded for him, and ace caliber pitcher whose going to be hurt a good part of the time. And even if hes done as a Cub, which seems likely, its not like we gave up a kings ranso for him. We gave up Gallagher, who lessthan a year later was a PTBNL for Scott freaking Hairston, We gave up Murton, whose now in Colorodo and we could probably get him back for nothing if we wanted him back, and we gave up Eric Patterson, whose Eric Patterson and Josh Donaldson, who may or may not ever play in the majors. In the end, I dont regret 1 minute of the Rich Harden era, but if its over, so be it.

[Soul]

I'm definitely disappointed that he didn't have a better year this year.

[Larry Horse]

Wasnt' Harden claimed on waivers?