Harden done for season, Gorzelanny to rotation

[DuCross Brothers]

1) they believe strongly in the theory of high-leverage innings

2) they believe that while Harden's made it through the past couple years relatively healthy, that may not continue

3) they believe he'll stay healthy in the pen

4) they believe that he'll be able to be strong and 100% effective at the end of the year when he's needed most

5) They don't want to be put in the position of finding spot starters and trying to find extra rest for Harden during the year to manage him properly as a starter

 

Not saying I agree with the position, but I can certainly understand the perspective.

 

That's a lot of maybe's for a pitcher this good. Given the difference in value beween a quality starter pitcher and a bullpen pitcher they better be pretty damn sure of most, if not all, of those possibilities before moving him to the bullpen.

 

That I would agree with. They would need to make sure and next year could be his judgment year if he doesn't make it.

[Sammy Sofa]

That I would agree with. They would need to make sure and next year could be his judgment year if he doesn't make it.

 

Though it wouldn't necessarily be a good "judgement year" if he's on the Cubs and they try and run him out there basically every 5th start. It should be clear that extra rest usually leads to him pitching like we know he can; hell the Cubs seemed to realize this in their statements before the season before seemingly forgetting what they had planned as soon as Opening Day rolled around.

[Keener98]

Definitely sounds like the Cubs have no plans of Harden coming back next year.

 

"You look at our starting pitching here for next year," Piniella said. "You've got (Carlos) Zambrano, you've got (Ryan) Dempster, you've got (Randy) Wells, you've got (Ted) Lilly, you've got (Tom) Gorzelanny, and you've got (Jeff) Samardzija, who is going to go to winter ball. And if this kid keeps improving, he'll be right in the nix. So we've got six nice arms."

 

Including Samardzija is ridiculous.

[treebird]

Definitely sounds like the Cubs have no plans of Harden coming back next year.

 

"You look at our starting pitching here for next year," Piniella said. "You've got (Carlos) Zambrano, you've got (Ryan) Dempster, you've got (Randy) Wells, you've got (Ted) Lilly, you've got (Tom) Gorzelanny, and you've got (Jeff) Samardzija, who is going to go to winter ball. And if this kid keeps improving, he'll be right in the nix. So we've got six nice arms."

 

Including Samardzija is ridiculous.

 

i think they meant "starts." if he starts improving, maybe he'll get good or something.

[Cubswin11]

Definitely sounds like the Cubs have no plans of Harden coming back next year.

 

"You look at our starting pitching here for next year," Piniella said. "You've got (Carlos) Zambrano, you've got (Ryan) Dempster, you've got (Randy) Wells, you've got (Ted) Lilly, you've got (Tom) Gorzelanny, and you've got (Jeff) Samardzija, who is going to go to winter ball. And if this kid keeps improving, he'll be right in the nix. So we've got six nice arms."

 

Including Samardzija is ridiculous.

It's fine if they don't plan on bringing him back with offering a multi year/multi million dollar deal or to go about their plans as if he isn't going to be on the team. But to not offer arbitration is simply foolish. $8-10 mil. isn't that much money for the production that we would get out of him.

 

 

And yes expecting Samardzija to produce at all out of the starting rotation next year is damn stupid.

[Sammy Sofa]

There's a really good chance Wells gets clobbered next year with the book out on him, plus the Cubs should not be counting on Shark for anything except for some starts if injuries take out enough starters. He needs to be down in the minors starting on a regular basis.

 

Not offering Harden arbitration blooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwws.

[KingCubsFan]

There's a really good chance Wells gets clobbered next year with the book out on him, plus the Cubs should not be counting on Shark for anything except for some starts if injuries take out enough starters. He needs to be down in the minors starting on a regular basis.

 

Not offering Harden arbitration blooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwws.

You'd think if Wells was that bad they'd already have the book on him. He's pitched almost the whole season in the majors and had pretty consistent success. I wasn't a believer in the beginning, but at this point I think he has a pretty good chance of being a decent starter.

[Cubswin11]

There's a really good chance Wells gets clobbered next year with the book out on him, plus the Cubs should not be counting on Shark for anything except for some starts if injuries take out enough starters. He needs to be down in the minors starting on a regular basis.

 

Not offering Harden arbitration blooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwws.

You'd think if Wells was that bad they'd already have the book on him. He's pitched almost the whole season in the majors and had pretty consistent success. I wasn't a believer in the beginning, but at this point I think he has a pretty good chance of being a decent starter.

I am expecting nothing better than a 07'/08' Jason Marquis type season out of Wells next year.

Edited September 28, 2009 by Cubswin11

[Sammy Sofa]

There's a really good chance Wells gets clobbered next year with the book out on him, plus the Cubs should not be counting on Shark for anything except for some starts if injuries take out enough starters. He needs to be down in the minors starting on a regular basis.

 

Not offering Harden arbitration blooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwws.

You'd think if Wells was that bad they'd already have the book on him. He's pitched almost the whole season in the majors and had pretty consistent success. I wasn't a believer in the beginning, but at this point I think he has a pretty good chance of being a decent starter.

 

He's been getting knocked around rather consistently towards the end of the season for a somewhat significant period of time now. That could be just be fatigue, but I'd still prefer to have Harden around instead of dumping him like Wells is a sure thing.

[davell]

I'm perfectly fine letting Harden go. But, not offering him arbitration is just stupid. Someone will give him more than a year. It's very possible someone who's got a protected pick will take a chance on him. It's also very possible that someone makes him their second type A signee and therefore only on the hook for a second rounder for him as it is. We're trying to replenish our system right now and doing a good job of it. The extra picks here could go a long way towards this and Hendry had better take advantage of this.

 

I mean seriously, what's the downside here? He accepts arbitration and we pay him 8-10 mill for one year, while he tries to impress someone into giving him a longterm deal? He's one of the most talented pitchers in the game, Hendry, the only way you lose here is if you don't offer him arbitration.

 

And the really sad thing is that's exactly what I figure will happen.

[Derwood]

I'm not counting on Wells for anything next year.

[DiamondMind]

So let me get this straight. You guys are all for offering 10M to Harden the glass doll with two pitches, but are convinced Wells will implode next year.

 

Um... wow. Ok.

[DiamondMind]

I'm not counting on Wells for anything next year.

 

Do you think Tommy Hanson will be successful next year?

[Derwood]

I'm not counting on Wells for anything next year.

 

Do you think Tommy Hanson will be successful next year?

 

I have no idea. How is that relevant?

[Keener98]

I'm not counting on Wells for anything next year.

 

Do you think Tommy Hanson will be successful next year?

 

 

Thats a ridiculous comparison.

[inari]

So let me get this straight. You guys are all for offering 10M to Harden the glass doll with two pitches, but are convinced Wells will implode next year.

 

Um... wow. Ok.

 

Well, Harden has a history of success. Wells has a history of being pretty mediocre and has had some success this year which recently is not looking good.

[Sammy Sofa]

CubicZarconiaMind.

[17 Seconds]

There's a really good chance Wells gets clobbered next year with the book out on him, plus the Cubs should not be counting on Shark for anything except for some starts if injuries take out enough starters. He needs to be down in the minors starting on a regular basis.

 

Not offering Harden arbitration blooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwws.

You'd think if Wells was that bad they'd already have the book on him. He's pitched almost the whole season in the majors and had pretty consistent success.

 

1.48 WHIP since the ASB

[RedFlash]

I like Wells and I kinda expect something like low to mid 4 with a whip in the 1.3, that's fine production from your backend of the rotation. But it is foolish to count on a combination of Wells/Gorzy/Marshall and Shark to essentially replace Harden is a bad plan. There are plenty of bad contracts to bad pitchers in baseball (ie Carlos Silva) so even if Harden does accept arb, you could always trade him during the season so you wouldn't be on the hook for the whole contract.

 

Hendry and the Cubs really, re-he-he-he-ally makes it hard to defend them, when they pull their tradition three stooges routine.

[Little Slide Rooter]

I like Harden, and I dont understand the point of not at least offering arbitration and getting picks if nothing else, however, given his history, I can undersatnd not wanting to pay him big money, essentially with all the bad money Hendry has floating around there, but what if we were to send Bradley to SD for Chris Young, and then get ahold of an outfielder from somewhere, be it Mike Cameron, Pat Burrell, or more wishfull thinking Carl Crawford, BJ Upton. Matt Holliday, or Jason Bay.

[TruffleShuffle]

I'm not counting on Wells for anything next year.

 

Do you think Tommy Hanson will be successful next year?

 

please tell me this is a joke.

[sneakypower]

1.48 WHIP since the ASB

apropos of well, nothing

[KingCubsFan]

There's a really good chance Wells gets clobbered next year with the book out on him, plus the Cubs should not be counting on Shark for anything except for some starts if injuries take out enough starters. He needs to be down in the minors starting on a regular basis.

 

Not offering Harden arbitration blooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwws.

You'd think if Wells was that bad they'd already have the book on him. He's pitched almost the whole season in the majors and had pretty consistent success.

 

1.48 WHIP since the ASB

I'm not saying he's going to repeat this year, nor am I saying he isn't very hittable. The guy seems like he could be a pretty durable #4 starter though. His ERA since the ASB has been pretty good, and his walks have stayed down. Whoever alluded to Jason Marquis is somewhat accurate although I think he'll be better than Marquis.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Cubs Not Looking To Retain Rich Harden?

By Zach Links [september 28 at 10:30am CST]

The Chicago Tribune's Paul Sullivan writes that the Cubs have no plans to bring back Rich Harden, as eluded to by manager Lou Piniella. Prior to losing the final road game of the season to the San Francisco, Piniella ran down the 2010 rotation.

 

"You look at our starting pitching here for next year," Piniella said. "You've got (Carlos) Zambrano, you've got (Ryan) Dempster, you've got (Randy) Wells, you've got (Ted) Lilly, you've got (Tom) Gorzelanny, and you've got (Jeff) Samardzija...And if this kid keeps improving, he'll be right in the mix. So we've got six nice arms."

 

Gordon Wittenmyer of the Chicago Sun-Times reported that Piniella characterized the starting five as being "pretty settled." Wittenmyer feels that Gorzelanny has a leg up on Samardzija and Sean Marshall for the fifth slot.

 

Zambrano, despite his personal frustration, could once again be an elite pitcher. The 28-year-old ace is discouraged by his depressed win total, but still managed to post a 3.69 ERA with 8.0 K/9 - a marked improvement over his 6.2 K/9 in 2008. Lilly has had what you could call a career year at the age of 33, recording all-time bests with a 3.02 ERA and 4.21 K/BB ratio. Dempster's HR, BB and SO rates are in the neighborhood of where they were last year, when he garnered national attention. Wells put up a strong 3.18 ERA on the way to becoming the first Cubs rookie to notch 10 wins since Kerry Wood.

 

Are the Cubs in good enough shape to let Harden sign elsewhere without having to sift through the lackluster available starting pitchers? Let's hear your thoughts in the comments section.

 

It is Paul Sullivan, so take it for what its worth, but it really sounds like weve seen the last of Harden as a Cub.

[KingCubsFan]

Cubs Not Looking To Retain Rich Harden?

By Zach Links [september 28 at 10:30am CST]

The Chicago Tribune's Paul Sullivan writes that the Cubs have no plans to bring back Rich Harden, as eluded to by manager Lou Piniella. Prior to losing the final road game of the season to the San Francisco, Piniella ran down the 2010 rotation.

 

"You look at our starting pitching here for next year," Piniella said. "You've got (Carlos) Zambrano, you've got (Ryan) Dempster, you've got (Randy) Wells, you've got (Ted) Lilly, you've got (Tom) Gorzelanny, and you've got (Jeff) Samardzija...And if this kid keeps improving, he'll be right in the mix. So we've got six nice arms."

 

Gordon Wittenmyer of the Chicago Sun-Times reported that Piniella characterized the starting five as being "pretty settled." Wittenmyer feels that Gorzelanny has a leg up on Samardzija and Sean Marshall for the fifth slot.

 

Zambrano, despite his personal frustration, could once again be an elite pitcher. The 28-year-old ace is discouraged by his depressed win total, but still managed to post a 3.69 ERA with 8.0 K/9 - a marked improvement over his 6.2 K/9 in 2008. Lilly has had what you could call a career year at the age of 33, recording all-time bests with a 3.02 ERA and 4.21 K/BB ratio. Dempster's HR, BB and SO rates are in the neighborhood of where they were last year, when he garnered national attention. Wells put up a strong 3.18 ERA on the way to becoming the first Cubs rookie to notch 10 wins since Kerry Wood.

 

Are the Cubs in good enough shape to let Harden sign elsewhere without having to sift through the lackluster available starting pitchers? Let's hear your thoughts in the comments section.

 

It is Paul Sullivan, so take it for what its worth, but it really sounds like weve seen the last of Harden as a Cub.

It doesn't suprise me that they don't want to bring him back but it's stupid to not at least offer him arbitration.