Cubs Trade Ascanio, Hart & Harrison for Grabow & Gorzelanny

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I'll be $100 that Hendry just is going to Deal either Fox, Hoffpauir, Jackson or another decent prospect in this trade. I'll guarantee people will be dissapointed in what he trades for and who he gives up.

I'll take that action

[dew1679666265]

I'll be $100 that Hendry just is going to Deal either Fox, Hoffpauir, Jackson or another decent prospect in this trade. I'll guarantee people will be dissapointed in what he trades for and who he gives up.

I'll take that action

 

It's rare the times when Hendry makes a bad trade.

[Vanilla Ice]

Told ya jersey and erik

[Jehrico]

I'll be $100 that Hendry just is going to Deal either Fox, Hoffpauir, Jackson or another decent prospect in this trade. I'll guarantee people will be dissapointed in what he trades for and who he gives up.

I'll take that action

 

It's rare the times when Hendry makes a bad trade.

And when he does, it's pretty obvious the moment he does it....Pierre and DeRosa. Both were instantaneously hated.

[Derwood]

http://bp2.blogger.com/_g5-bZ38yOUE/Rl0EzezuH0I/AAAAAAAAAPE/eoUC-Hb29Qo/s320/gorzysloth.jpg

[dew1679666265]

I'll be $100 that Hendry just is going to Deal either Fox, Hoffpauir, Jackson or another decent prospect in this trade. I'll guarantee people will be dissapointed in what he trades for and who he gives up.

I'll take that action

 

It's rare the times when Hendry makes a bad trade.

And when he does, it's pretty obvious the moment he does it....Pierre and DeRosa. Both were instantaneously hated.

 

The DeRosa trade is actually looking like a decent deal at this point. It would have been nice to have him, but I think over the next five or more years we'll be happy to have Stevens, Archer and Gaub.

[YearofDaCubs]

I'll be $100 that Hendry just is going to Deal either Fox, Hoffpauir, Jackson or another decent prospect in this trade. I'll guarantee people will be dissapointed in what he trades for and who he gives up.

I'll take that action

 

It's rare the times when Hendry makes a bad trade.

And when he does, it's pretty obvious the moment he does it....Pierre and DeRosa. Both were instantaneously hated.

 

The DeRosa trade is actually looking like a decent deal at this point. It would have been nice to have him, but I think over the next five or more years we'll be happy to have Stevens, Archer and Gaub.

We're trying to win the World Series right now not 5 years from now. That's reason why we have so many backloaded contracts.

[dew1679666265]

We're trying to win the World Series right now not 5 years from now. That's reason why we have so many backloaded contracts.

 

That's why I'm not calling it a good deal. Hendry got good value for DeRosa, but it's easily debatable that he should have kept DeRo since we're trying to win the WS now.

 

Had he signed someone like Orlando Hudson after trading DeRosa, though, that deal looks better. The only thing that makes it look bad is that we signed Miles to replace DeRo. Stevens is contributing right now and might be a bullpen arm in the playoffs this year. Gaub might see the majors in September when rosters expand - so it wasn't only a long term trade.

[SweetZombieJesus]

I'll be $100 that Hendry just is going to Deal either Fox, Hoffpauir, Jackson or another decent prospect in this trade. I'll guarantee people will be dissapointed in what he trades for and who he gives up.

I'll take that action

 

It's rare the times when Hendry makes a bad trade.

 

Yeah it happens often. Miles for Derosa. Edmonds for that angry black guy.

[dew1679666265]

I'll be $100 that Hendry just is going to Deal either Fox, Hoffpauir, Jackson or another decent prospect in this trade. I'll guarantee people will be dissapointed in what he trades for and who he gives up.

I'll take that action

 

It's rare the times when Hendry makes a bad trade.

 

Yeah it happens often. Miles for Derosa. Edmonds for that angry black guy.

 

Well, except those weren't trades. :)

[Jehrico]

I'll be $100 that Hendry just is going to Deal either Fox, Hoffpauir, Jackson or another decent prospect in this trade. I'll guarantee people will be dissapointed in what he trades for and who he gives up.

I'll take that action

 

It's rare the times when Hendry makes a bad trade.

And when he does, it's pretty obvious the moment he does it....Pierre and DeRosa. Both were instantaneously hated.

 

The DeRosa trade is actually looking like a decent deal at this point. It would have been nice to have him, but I think over the next five or more years we'll be happy to have Stevens, Archer and Gaub.

That's only part of the equation. We spent a few million over TWO YEARS on Aaron freakin' Miles, money we wouldn't have spent had we kept DeRo, and he wouldn't have wound up with the Cards, for whom he's been killing the ball. Also, we wouldn't be pining for an upgrade at 2B right now either. Of course, you can't fault Hendry for not having the foresight on the Cards part, but you can tag him for Miles and Fontenot though.

[Outshined_One]

So in the grand scheme of things, we trade: Jacque Jones, Will Ohman, Freddy Bynum, and Josh Harrison for John Grabow and Tom Gorzalanny.

 

If you want to get hyper-technical, we traded Jacque Jones, Omar Infante, Will Ohman, Phil Norton, John Koronka, Freddie Bynum, and Josh Harrison for Grabow and Gorzelanny.

 

Oddly enough, I'd still make that trade if the Cubs had all those guys.

[dew1679666265]

That's only part of the equation. We spent a few million over TWO YEARS on Aaron freakin' Miles, money we wouldn't have spent had we kept DeRo, and he wouldn't have wound up with the Cards, for whom he's been killing the ball. Also, we wouldn't be pining for an upgrade at 2B right now either. Of course, you can't fault Hendry for not having the foresight on the Cards part, but you can tag him for Miles and Fontenot though.

 

When you evaluate a trade, though, you shouldn't take into account following moves. Any moves made after a trade should be evaluated as they are - unless a trade is made specifically to make room for a player. There's been no indication that Hendry traded Miles for the express purpose of signing Miles.

 

Had Hendry traded DeRosa for Stevens/Gaub/Archer and then signed Orlando Hudson to play second, there's probably little complaint about the original trade. The trade itself was good - we got good value for DeRosa and one of the three players we got are helping us right now - but the follow up was not good.

[dew1679666265]

So in the grand scheme of things, we trade: Jacque Jones, Will Ohman, Freddy Bynum, and Josh Harrison for John Grabow and Tom Gorzalanny.

 

If you want to get hyper-technical, we traded Jacque Jones, Omar Infante, Will Ohman, Phil Norton, John Koronka, Freddie Bynum, and Josh Harrison for Grabow and Gorzelanny.

 

Oddly enough, I'd still make that trade if the Cubs had all those guys.

 

Didn't we trade Jacque for Infante? If so, then it'd be Jacque, Ohman, Norton, Koronka, Bynum and Harrison for Grabow and Gorzo.

[Jehrico]

That's only part of the equation. We spent a few million over TWO YEARS on Aaron freakin' Miles, money we wouldn't have spent had we kept DeRo, and he wouldn't have wound up with the Cards, for whom he's been killing the ball. Also, we wouldn't be pining for an upgrade at 2B right now either. Of course, you can't fault Hendry for not having the foresight on the Cards part, but you can tag him for Miles and Fontenot though.

 

When you evaluate a trade, though, you shouldn't take into account following moves. Any moves made after a trade should be evaluated as they are - unless a trade is made specifically to make room for a player. There's been no indication that Hendry traded Miles for the express purpose of signing Miles.

Absolutely you should. Stupid trades that necessitate more stupid trades can set back a franchise for years. Look at the aftermath of the Lee Smith trade back in the day that led us to trade Palmiero for Williams, etc...

[dew1679666265]

That's only part of the equation. We spent a few million over TWO YEARS on Aaron freakin' Miles, money we wouldn't have spent had we kept DeRo, and he wouldn't have wound up with the Cards, for whom he's been killing the ball. Also, we wouldn't be pining for an upgrade at 2B right now either. Of course, you can't fault Hendry for not having the foresight on the Cards part, but you can tag him for Miles and Fontenot though.

 

When you evaluate a trade, though, you shouldn't take into account following moves. Any moves made after a trade should be evaluated as they are - unless a trade is made specifically to make room for a player. There's been no indication that Hendry traded Miles for the express purpose of signing Miles.

Absolutely you should. Stupid trades that necessitate more stupid trades can set back a franchise for years. Look at the aftermath of the Lee Smith trade back in the day that led us to trade Palmiero for Williams, etc...

 

Hendry didn't trade DeRosa for the express purpose of acquiring Miles, though. The DeRosa trade itself was a good move. That good move created an opening on the roster. Hendry didn't do so well filling that opening. All that means, however, is that the follow-up move was bad, not the initial move itself.

 

Like I said, if the DeRosa trade had been followed up with signing Hudson, there's no debate whether the DeRosa trade itself was a good move or not.

[Jehrico]

DeRosa was traded to allow Fontenot to be a starter. Doesn't make much of a difference if he came from our bench or we signed him as a FA. DeRo was traded so someone else could have the job that shouldn't have had the job. Hendry's backup plan was Aaron Freaking Miles. You don't trade a quality starter without having a plan to improve the team.

 

Our team is old, and our window for competing for the WS is waning. Getting a few pitching prospects who could be quality relievers in a few years after that window closes in exchange for a serious downgrade at 2B was a stupid move, even if the return was worth DeRo alone in the big picture. Getting equal value back later isn't worth taking a hit in our chances at the postseason now with this team.

 

Hendry's job isn't to make a bunch of individual trades that are fair...it is to assemble a complete ballclub that can compete for a title. The DeRo trade completely undermined that principle, and thus, was a bad trade.

Edited July 31, 2009 by Jehrico

[PackLandVA]

With the exception of a really crappy May, Grabow's numbers this year look pretty solid, especially since May.

[YearofDaCubs]

DeRosa was traded to allow Fontenot to be a starter. Doesn't make much of a difference if he came from our bench or we signed him as a FA. DeRo was traded so someone else could have the job that shouldn't have had the job. Hendry's backup plan was Aaron Freaking Miles. You don't trade a quality starter without having a plan to improve the team.

 

Our team is old, and our window for competing for the WS is waning. Getting a few pitching prospects who could be quality relievers in a few years after that window closes in exchange for a serious downgrade at 2B was a stupid move, even if the return was worth DeRo alone in the big picture. Getting equal value back later isn't worth taking a hit in our chances at the postseason now with this team.

 

Hendry's job isn't to make a bunch of individual trades that are fair...it is to assemble a complete ballclub that can compete for a title. The DeRo trade completely undermined that principle, and thus, was a bad trade.

Not to mention that DeRo ended up going to STL, the team we are competing against to win the division.

[dew1679666265]

DeRosa was traded to allow Fontenot to be a starter. Doesn't make much of a difference if he came from our bench or we signed him as a FA. DeRo was traded so someone else could have the job that shouldn't have had the job. Hendry's backup plan was Aaron Freaking Miles. You don't trade a quality starter without having a plan to improve the team.

 

Our team is old, and our window for competing for the WS is waning. Getting a few pitching prospects who could be quality relievers in a few years after that window closes in exchange for a serious downgrade at 2B was a stupid move, even if the return was worth DeRo alone in the big picture. Getting equal value back later isn't worth taking a hit in our chances at the postseason now with this team.

 

If the plan is poor, that doesn't mean the initial move is poor, though. If Hendry traded Lee and Bradley for Albert Pujols tomorrow and then promoted Miles to play right field every day, that wouldn't make the Lee/Bradley for Pujols trade a bad idea. That initial trade was still a good move, no matter the follow up.

 

It's the same idea with the DeRosa trade. Dealing DeRo was not a bad idea. The bad idea was - as it turns out - starting Fontenot and signing Miles.

[cheapseats]

There's been no indication that Hendry traded Miles for the express purpose of signing Miles.

 

I assume you mean there's no indication that Derosa was traded for the purpose of signing Miles?

 

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/team/transactions.jsp?c_id=chc&year=2008&month=12

 

It's pretty hard to argue that Hendry didn't already have Miles in mind when he traded Derosa.

[Jehrico]

Let me paint a hyperbolic example to illustrate my point...let's say team A has the 5 best starting pitchers in the league in it's rotation, with a good bull pen. There's 2-3 young guys in the minors that could be a #3 starter on most other teams to provide depth in case of injury. But the offense is middling. If they traded their best two offensive players for the best starter in the league that's not on their team, it'd be a stupid trade to make even if they got more than fair value for their players.

 

Obviously the DeRo situation isn't off the scale of stupidity like that would be, but it was a stupid trade to make because it hurt the team during our window of opportunity. This whole conversation was about whether the DeRo trade was a good move by Hendry or not. When you state whether a trade was a stupid trade or a good trade, what you're doing is critiquing the judgement of the guy that made that trade. Hendry lapsed on that one, and making that trade should go down as a bad move for Hendry, even if all three of those pitchers are contributing well to our pen in four years. Evaluating the trade purely on the haul is equivalent to judging a trade of baseball cards. It's not just about getting fair value, it's about improving the organization, and Hendry hurt the organization when he made that decision. So, back to my original point, the worst two decisions made by Hendry with regards to trades were DeRo and Pierre. I never commented on the overall respective values of the trio of pitchers we got, present and future, compared to the overall present and future value of DeRosa. It was about whether this was a good trade for Hendry to make or not.

 

If you still want to argue it's a good trade, then we'll just agree to disagree because we're talking apples and oranges.

[dew1679666265]

There's been no indication that Hendry traded Miles for the express purpose of signing Miles.

 

I assume you mean there's no indication that Derosa was traded for the purpose of signing Miles?

 

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/team/transactions.jsp?c_id=chc&year=2008&month=12

 

It's pretty hard to argue that Hendry didn't already have Miles in mind when he traded Derosa.

 

Oops, yeah. That's what I meant.

 

I'm sure he had Miles in mind, but his point in trading DeRosa was not a need to get Miles on the team. And even if the purpose was flawed (an attempt to get more ABs for Fontenot) the return was still good. He just needed to follow up better than he did.

[rocket]

i'll be there to witness history on tuesday

[Clem Fandango]

FYI, The Logan: Jay Jackson is in the Daytona starting lineup.

 

Well that's a relief, guess our guys got some bad info. Or maybe they changed their mind? IDK. Either way, glad he's not out of our farm system :)