Cubs Trade Ascanio, Hart & Harrison for Grabow & Gorzelanny

[Cubbie Swagger]

What was so wrong with Ascanio? He's better than Grabow. Seems like a stupid deal to me.

[Wrigley Rat]

What was so wrong with Ascanio? He's better than Grabow. Seems like a stupid deal to me.

Whenever Ascanio threw with his left arm, the ball wouldn't make it all the way to the plate. ;)

[Gingerballs Lives]

Gorzelanny >>>>>>>>> Hart

 

but Ascanio and Harrison >>>>>>>>>>> Grabow

 

But if the Cubs get draft picks for Grabow (if hey offered arb) then their is a chance the draft picks would >>>>>>>>Ascanio and Harrison.

 

Here's the thing: The only players to accept arbitration last year were relievers. It is not a done deal that Grabow would not accept. Then, if he doesn't accept, another team has to sign him. If he's Type A, would you give up your first pick for him? If he's not Type A, you don't get 2 picks.

 

Yes, Grabow will accept arbitration. Nobody is going to pay draft picks for him.

[RedFlash]

What was so wrong with Ascanio? He's better than Grabow. Seems like a stupid deal to me.

 

To Ascanio, Grabow, Heilman, some random MR, etc, etc. To me the ONLY value Ascanio had over Grabow is $$$ and that's it. I don't see him as a "long-term" closer, but more of a closer by need (especially when Pittsburgh trades Capps within the next two yrs) and he's steps in as a "temp closer." So saying Ascanio is better then Grabow, is kinda like saying you like black olives over green olives. They both serve a purpose.

[Drew Doughty]

What was so wrong with Ascanio? He's better than Grabow. Seems like a stupid deal to me.

 

To Ascanio, Grabow, Heilman, some random MR, etc, etc. To me the ONLY value Ascanio had over Grabow is $$$ and that's it. I don't see him as a "long-term" closer, but more of a closer by need (especially when Pittsburgh trades Capps within the next two yrs) and he's steps in as a "temp closer." So saying Ascanio is better then Grabow, is kinda like saying you like black olives over green olives. They both serve a purpose.

 

that's a...bizarre analogy, to say the least.

[Guest]

I think that Hart and Ascanio each had higher potential than Gorzo + Grabow. However, each of the two was taking too long to get established as effective pitchers in the majors. Given the opportunity, I think each could be very effective big league players. The Cubs are not in a position to give them that chance, though. That's why I think the trade works for both teams.

[jersey cubs fan]

I think that Hart and Ascanio each had higher potential than Gorzo + Grabow. However, each of the two was taking too long to get established as effective pitchers in the majors. Given the opportunity, I think each could be very effective big league players. The Cubs are not in a position to give them that chance, though. That's why I think the trade works for both teams.

 

I do not understand this line of thinking. How are the Cubs not in a position where they can give guys a chance to develop into effective big league players?

[CUBZ99]

I think that Hart and Ascanio each had higher potential than Gorzo + Grabow. However, each of the two was taking too long to get established as effective pitchers in the majors. Given the opportunity, I think each could be very effective big league players. The Cubs are not in a position to give them that chance, though. That's why I think the trade works for both teams.

 

I do not understand this line of thinking. How are the Cubs not in a position where they can give guys a chance to develop into effective big league players?

 

Where are you going to play them on a regular basis, in order for them to develop? Most of the year they have been languishing in AAA. The Pirates are configured to the point where they can take more luxuries with allowing them to go through growing pains without affecting the overall outcome of their season.

 

In Hart's situation, he is headed back to the minors as soon as Lilly is off the DL. Ascanio had brief call ups, and didn't immediately impress Cubs brass, therefore relegating him to IA. With the Pirates, I presume he will be given a much longer leash.

[jersey cubs fan]

I think that Hart and Ascanio each had higher potential than Gorzo + Grabow. However, each of the two was taking too long to get established as effective pitchers in the majors. Given the opportunity, I think each could be very effective big league players. The Cubs are not in a position to give them that chance, though. That's why I think the trade works for both teams.

 

I do not understand this line of thinking. How are the Cubs not in a position where they can give guys a chance to develop into effective big league players?

 

Where are you going to play them on a regular basis, in order for them to develop? Most of the year they have been languishing in AAA. The Pirates are configured to the point where they can take more luxuries with allowing them to go through growing pains without affecting the overall outcome of their season.

 

In Hart's situation, he is headed back to the minors as soon as Lilly is off the DL. Ascanio had brief call ups, and didn't immediately impress Cubs brass, therefore relegating him to IA. With the Pirates, I presume he will be given a much longer leash.

 

Just because the people who make the decisions for the Cubs haven't chosen not to try and make it work doesn't mean you can't make it work. Every team has to introduce young players to the team and let them develop. To insinuate that the Cubs aren't in a position to do that is just inaccurate. They absolutely can, they just choose not to.

[davearm2]

I think that Hart and Ascanio each had higher potential than Gorzo + Grabow. However, each of the two was taking too long to get established as effective pitchers in the majors. Given the opportunity, I think each could be very effective big league players. The Cubs are not in a position to give them that chance, though. That's why I think the trade works for both teams.

 

I do not understand this line of thinking. How are the Cubs not in a position where they can give guys a chance to develop into effective big league players?

This seems pretty obvious to see. Guys that are out of options but not fully developed to the point where they can be positive contributors to the bigleague club are not a good fit for a team that's trying to win now.

 

The Cubs can't afford to give a (hypothetical) guy 30 starts if he's putting up a 6.00 ERA and 1.70 WHIP, even if they believe in a couple years he'll develop into a guy capable of giving them 30 starts of 4.00 ERA and 1.20 WHIP. It's just too damaging to this year's chances to contend.

 

A team like the Pirates can, since this year they have no chance to contend.

 

This was the story with Felix Pie, and possibly with Hart now, too.

 

And now having said all that, I wonder why I bothered since I suspect you can grasp the thought process at work here just fine.

[davearm2]

I think that Hart and Ascanio each had higher potential than Gorzo + Grabow. However, each of the two was taking too long to get established as effective pitchers in the majors. Given the opportunity, I think each could be very effective big league players. The Cubs are not in a position to give them that chance, though. That's why I think the trade works for both teams.

 

I do not understand this line of thinking. How are the Cubs not in a position where they can give guys a chance to develop into effective big league players?

 

Where are you going to play them on a regular basis, in order for them to develop? Most of the year they have been languishing in AAA. The Pirates are configured to the point where they can take more luxuries with allowing them to go through growing pains without affecting the overall outcome of their season.

 

In Hart's situation, he is headed back to the minors as soon as Lilly is off the DL. Ascanio had brief call ups, and didn't immediately impress Cubs brass, therefore relegating him to IA. With the Pirates, I presume he will be given a much longer leash.

 

Just because the people who make the decisions for the Cubs haven't chosen not to try and make it work doesn't mean you can't make it work. Every team has to introduce young players to the team and let them develop. To insinuate that the Cubs aren't in a position to do that is just inaccurate. They absolutely can, they just choose not to.

This is simply not true.

 

The Cubs rely heavily on their young players -- Soto, Theriot, Marmol, Wells, Marshall, Fox, Hoffpauir, and on and on. The ones that produce, play. The ones that don't, eventually get moved because the Cubs don't have the luxury (if you can call it that) of playing wait-and-see if it's costing them ballgames.

[jersey cubs fan]

The Cubs rely heavily on their young players -- Soto, Theriot, Marmol, Wells, Marshall, Fox, Hoffpauir, and on and on. The ones that produce, play. The ones that don't, eventually get moved because the Cubs don't have the luxury (if you can call it that) of playing wait-and-see if it's costing them ballgames.

 

Hoffpauir sucks. The Cubs lived through a good deal of non-production out of Theriot before he justified the time. The Cubs absolutely can play wait and see with struggling kids. If they didn't make so many horrible mistakes with overpriced veterans they could do it more. They just choose not to.

[davearm2]

The Cubs rely heavily on their young players -- Soto, Theriot, Marmol, Wells, Marshall, Fox, Hoffpauir, and on and on. The ones that produce, play. The ones that don't, eventually get moved because the Cubs don't have the luxury (if you can call it that) of playing wait-and-see if it's costing them ballgames.

 

Hoffpauir sucks. The Cubs lived through a good deal of non-production out of Theriot before he justified the time. The Cubs absolutely can play wait and see with struggling kids. If they didn't make so many horrible mistakes with overpriced veterans they could do it more. They just choose not to.

They choose not to play guys that are struggling, because they're trying to win.

 

That goes for the kids and also the vets.

 

In Piniella's time, plenty of older guys have fallen out of favor and gotten the boot too.

 

This notion that there's a reluctance to play young players is just false, as my (partial) list reveals.

 

What there is, is a a reluctance to play overmatched/struggling players that are hurting the team more than they're helping, no matter their age.

[Cubswin11]

So who goes down tomorrow to make rome for Gorzelanny? Hopefully it's Samardzija, but it will probably be Stevens.

[NCCubFan]

So who goes down tomorrow to make rome for Gorzelanny? Hopefully it's Samardzija, but it will probably be Stevens.

I think it's Samardzija. It's really a no-brainer. Stevens has completely outpitched him, and it would allow Shark to stretch out as a starter again.

 

Of course, we are talking about the Cubs, so I should probably say it SHOULD be a no-brainer.

[Derwood]

Nice debut for Hart with the Pirates:

 

6 IP, 9H, 3ER, 1BB, 5 K

 

The pen blew it for him late, so he got a ND.

 

Good luck, Kevin.