College Basketball 2009-10

[SouthSideRyan]

 

You might want to look up ignorant in the dictionary.

 

Incredible.

 

I eagerly await the day where Bum is right on something, anything.

[Magnetic Curses]

 

And Kruger was not going to make Illinois into a perennial powerhouse. He was very fortunate that Peoria was so fertile while he was here. He wasn't getting anything out of the Chicago area. Self, I could see, but it's easy to say that now that he's gone on to one of the programs that recruits itself, and allows people who can't read like Brandon Rush into the school.

 

and, like i said, self wasn't a very good recruiter while at illinois.

[SouthSideRyan]

self also regularly lost out on the top players in the state while he was at illinois. his best class had dee, deron, augustine, warren carter, and kyle wilson. deron was borderline top 50 and augustone was borderline top 100. wilson and carter were projects.

 

 

Minor correction, it was Aaron Spears instead of Carter. Spears was a fat [expletive] load.

[Magnetic Curses]

self also regularly lost out on the top players in the state while he was at illinois. his best class had dee, deron, augustine, warren carter, and kyle wilson. deron was borderline top 50 and augustone was borderline top 100. wilson and carter were projects.

 

 

Minor correction, it was Aaron Spears instead of Carter. Spears was a fat [expletive] load.

 

you're right, carter was the next year. my bad. spears...hahahaha

[SpongeWorthy]

So basically you guys want Illinois to crawl into the tournament while Weber continues to poison the well? The guy is a garbage coach.

 

They're going to be middling at best until the right hire is made.

 

If McCamey comes back they're going to contend for the Big Ten title next year.

 

I'm sorry but big freaking whoop. Your sights should be higher than contending for a conference title once every few years.

 

If Kruger or Self had stuck around you'd be looking at a perennial powerhouse, IMO. I don't see that ever coming out of Weber. What's holding Illinois back from being one of the 5-10 best jobs in the country?

 

The reason we are where we've been the last 4 years is because of a horrendous stretch of recruiting. He's recruiting now, I don't know what you want from me. If Illinois contends for a Big Ten title, that means they're a top 10-15 team in the country. You think if Illinois does that next year, they're gonna go win 19 games in '12? I agree with IG that the '11 recruiting class is going to be a huge one for Weber. If he manages a top 10 class there, Illinois is going to be very very good for a long time.

 

And Kruger was not going to make Illinois into a perennial powerhouse. He was very fortunate that Peoria was so fertile while he was here. He wasn't getting anything out of the Chicago area. Self, I could see, but it's easy to say that now that he's gone on to one of the programs that recruits itself, and allows people who can't read like Brandon Rush into the school.

 

I guess my point is that Illinois, with all of its resources, should be one of those schools that's always in the top 10-15 or so unless it's a true rebuilding year. If not in basketball then in football. I think you guys should work up the fan base into such an irrational lather that you'll end up with the big splashy hire that'll bring in the sick recruiting classes.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_population

 

Look at the top 10. Besides NY, which has a very fragmented state university system, Illinois is the only one that doesn't field a powerhouse football and/or basketball program (and never has really). There's something wrong with that.

[Keener98]

From ESPN blog entry.

 

"You know, [illinois] did impress to some degree, obviously in their performance in the Big Ten tournament" Guerrero said. " But when you look at the entire body of work in a general sense, they had some situations where they lost to some teams below 100 on the RPI. They were below .500 versus teams in the top 100. Their conference strength schedule was not the strongest. In the end, Illinois did not make the cut."

 

This quote is a huge steaming pile of dog [expletive]. "They had some situations where they lost to some teams below 100 on the RPI"...Minnesota losses vs teams below 100 on RPI=4 with a loss to #99 also. Illinois losses vs teams below 100=3 and NONE since December unlike Minny who has 3 of theirs in 2010 and 1 of those coming in March.

 

Record vs teams in top 100 Minny 7-9 Illinois 6-10 wow big difference.

 

Better overall SOS than Minny also.

 

Like I said that quote is a huge steaming pile of dog [expletive]

[Magnetic Curses]

I guess my point is that Illinois, with all of its resources, should be one of those schools that's always in the top 10-15 or so unless it's a true rebuilding year. If not in basketball then in football. I think you guys should work up the fan base into such an irrational lather that you'll end up with the big splashy hire that'll bring in the sick recruiting classes.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_population

 

Look at the top 10. Besides NY, which has a very fragmented state university system, Illinois is the only one that doesn't field a powerhouse football and/or basketball program (and never has really). There's something wrong with that.

 

i'm not playing the regular schtick right now, but the illinois basketball program has fallen victim to some remarkable disasters, be it the fault of the coaches or the fault of no one. bad news upon bad news was heaped upon the program.

 

and, once again, illinois is still a tough sell for whatever reason.

[UMFan83]

So basically you guys want Illinois to crawl into the tournament while Weber continues to poison the well? The guy is a garbage coach.

 

They're going to be middling at best until the right hire is made.

 

If McCamey comes back they're going to contend for the Big Ten title next year.

 

I'm sorry but big freaking whoop. Your sights should be higher than contending for a conference title once every few years.

 

If Kruger or Self had stuck around you'd be looking at a perennial powerhouse, IMO. I don't see that ever coming out of Weber. What's holding Illinois back from being one of the 5-10 best jobs in the country?

Weber's coaching ability isn't and shouldn't be in question. Recruiting was an issue for a while, but the recruits are finally coming. Getting the recruits to buy into Weber's system right now is the challenge.

 

Well I have my questions about Weber's coaching ability. But the recruiting thing is still a huge issue. I don't follow this stuff, especially when it comes to Illinois, nearly as much as you guys but my very subjective opinion is that it really shouldn't be that hard to pull in top 10 classes to Illinois.

 

Is there anything stopping Illinois from throwing gobs of money at Jamie Dixon or whoever? I really do think if you find your Thad Matta you'd see Illinois rule the Big 10. It's a huge state with no real in state competitor.

 

Seriously, like some above said, Illinois should be shooting higher than making the NCAA tourney most years. Let's face it, Illinois has been a marginal NCAA team the last few years. Let's take a look at Weber's tenure:

 

09-10: 19-14 (10-8) No NCAAs

08-09: 24-10 (11-7) 5 seed, lost to 12th seed in 1st round

07-08: 16-19 (5-13) No NCAAs

06-07: 23-12 (9-7) 12 seed, lost to 5th seed in 1st round

05-06: 26-7 (11-5) 4 seed, beat 13 seed Air Force in 1st round, lost to 5 seed Washington in 2nd round

04-05: 37-2 (15-1) 1 seed, beat 16 seed Fairleigh Dickinson in 1st round, beat 9 seed Nevada in 2nd round, beat 12 seed UW-Milwaukee in Sweet 16, beat 3 seed Arizona in Elite 8, beat 4 seed Louisville in Final Four, lost to 1 seed North Carolina in Championship Game

03-04: 26-7 (13-3) 5 seed, beat 12 seed Murray State in 1st round, beat 4 seed Cincinnati in 2nd round, lost to 1 seed Duke in Sweet 16

 

Remember that the 1st 3 years of his tenure, clearly his most successful, were played with a core of Bill Self's players (Brown, Deron, Powell, Augustine, Head - I know 05-06 only Augustine and Brown were there but that was a big part of core)

 

So in the 4 years since the team has been Weber recruits, the team is 2 for 4 in making the NCAAs and has not won an NCAA tourney game. For a school like Illinois, who had the opportunity to build off a ridiculous season capped off by a championship game appearance, that's not good enough. Now I don't advocate firing Weber right now, but I think that you have to start considering his job status, whereas 2 years ago he was untouchable. I just don't like Illini fans making excuses for him. Bottom line is Weber should have been recruiting better. All that buzz after 05 was not capitalized on.

[Magnetic Curses]

weber is getting the players now, his 2010 class is the best since henson and his 2011 class could be just as good. in 2009, he got 3 contributors as freshmen and another guy who could be a nice piece of the puzzle next year.

[SpongeWorthy]

I think the fact that Lou Henson is the most famous coach in school history from the Big 2 sports is symptomatic of the problem.

[SouthSideRyan]

I see your point on Self sulley, but I think you're underselling him a bit. That '02 class was every bit as good as next year's on paper. The '03 class was 3 4 stars (who never lived up to their ranking, whether that means they weren't as good as their rankings, or if they weren't developed is a different debate) '01 they lucked into Luther Head after whiffing on their first 5 options or so, and Powell wasn't nearly the player under Self that he was under Weber.

 

The funny thing about hearing the can't win without Self's players, is that Self had just as good if not better talent waiting for him when he got to Illinois. Self walked into a preseason #8 team at Illinois. Then with each year passing Illinois's results got worse as Kruger's players left. I'm obviously not saying that the program was going to keep having worse results as Deron/Dee/Augie matured, but it's funny to look at.

 

Another point that I've made on here in the past is that Kruger didn't have the guy he replaced stay in the neighborhood recruiting Chicago. Self had already made the contacts with the kids in Illinois's recruiting grounds, and took those contacts to KU with him. Weber was at SIU and certainly wasn't in on the same kids you'd be in on at Illinois. So when the new guy goes after Sherron Collins and Julian Wright, you think they're gonna give him the same reception as they did to the guy who's been in on them the entire time?

[SouthSideRyan]

I think the fact that Lou Henson is the most famous coach in school history from the Big 2 sports is symptomatic of the problem.

 

Well that's just recency bias. The most successful coaches were pretty clearly Harry Combes in basketball, and whoever coached the football team to their national titles.

[SouthSideRyan]

A 5 seed is not a marginal NCAA tourney team. If Chester Frazier doesn't get hurt, that's probably a sweet 16 team last year.

 

All that buzz after 05 was not capitalized on.

 

Where do you think the current recruits are coming from? You don't go to the title game in '05 and then go out and grab a bunch of kids that'll be in school the next year. It doesn't work that way. That's not just me talking, Jim Calhoun told Weber you see the spoils 3-4 years down the road.

 

It's not like Illinois's recent recruiting successes have been capitalizing on the performance on the floor from the past couple years, they're getting a bunch of recruits who were young and impressionable watching that '05 team, and fell in love with the school from that.

[Magnetic Curses]

I think the fact that Lou Henson is the most famous coach in school history from the Big 2 sports is symptomatic of the problem.

 

however, the school did produce the #1 college football player in history.

[SpongeWorthy]

I'm sure you were confused by the similar school colors but Tim Tebow went to Florida.

[UMFan83]

A 5 seed is not a marginal NCAA tourney team. If Chester Frazier doesn't get hurt, that's probably a sweet 16 team last year.

 

All that buzz after 05 was not capitalized on.

 

Where do you think the current recruits are coming from? You don't go to the title game in '05 and then go out and grab a bunch of kids that'll be in school the next year. It doesn't work that way. That's not just me talking, Jim Calhoun told Weber you see the spoils 3-4 years down the road.

 

It's not like Illinois's recent recruiting successes have been capitalizing on the performance on the floor from the past couple years, they're getting a bunch of recruits who were young and impressionable watching that '05 team, and fell in love with the school from that.

 

Yeah ok so 3 out of the 4 years Weber had a team of all his own players they were a marginal NCAA team at best. Better? That's fine that the real recruits won't come until 3-4 years down the road, but if Weber is really the answer for Illinois, he should have had better results for his team in the meantime. I mean Calipari came to Kentucky and all the sudden they are a 1 seed in the tourney. I hold Illinois in high regard, and while they aren't a program like Kentucky or Duke or UNC, I think they are a tier just below and should be a team who is a top 8 seed year in and out in the tourney. In the last 4 years, Illinois has accomplished that once. I'm not saying fire the guy, I'm well aware of the prospects that are coming in, I'm saying if these recruits don't lead to results in the next year or two, it's time to take a long look at Weber's future in Champaign.

[SouthSideRyan]

Well Cal's only final fours no longer exist, I don't think he's a great comparison.

 

I think you'll find most of us agree with the rest of your post. If he can't get things done with the level of talent that'll be on this team, over the next couple years then it's time to go. Maybe I'm a kool-aid drinker, but I expect a minimum of one Final Four from this current freshman class.

[CubbieBum]

From ESPN blog entry.

 

"You know, [illinois] did impress to some degree, obviously in their performance in the Big Ten tournament" Guerrero said. " But when you look at the entire body of work in a general sense, they had some situations where they lost to some teams below 100 on the RPI. They were below .500 versus teams in the top 100. Their conference strength schedule was not the strongest. In the end, Illinois did not make the cut."

 

This quote is a huge steaming pile of dog [expletive]. "They had some situations where they lost to some teams below 100 on the RPI"...Minnesota losses vs teams below 100 on RPI=4 with a loss to #99 also. Illinois losses vs teams below 100=3 and NONE since December unlike Minny who has 3 of theirs in 2010 and 1 of those coming in March.

 

Record vs teams in top 100 Minny 7-9 Illinois 6-10 wow big difference.

 

Better overall SOS than Minny also.

 

Like I said that quote is a huge steaming pile of dog [expletive]

 

1. Illinois had four losses, not three, to teams below 100 on RPI

 

2. Minnesota beat Illinois at Illinois

 

3. Both teams had top 50 SOS so let's not act like Minnesota played a weak schedule.

[Guest]

Final 4:

 

Kansas

Syracuse

West Virginia

Baylor

 

I have Kansas over WVU.

[NCCubFan]

Here are the first round games for the IMPORTANT tournaments:

 

CBI:

Indiana State @ St. Louis

Green Bay @ Akron

Virginia Commonwealth @ George Washington

Charleston @ Eastern Kentucky

Boston University @ Oregon State

Colorado State @ Morehead State

IUPUI @ Hofstra

Duquesne @ Princeton

 

College Insider:

South Dakota @ Creighton

Fairfield @ George Mason

Western Carolina @ Marshall

Pacific @ Loyola Marymount

Middle Tennessee State @ Missouri State

Harvard @ Appalachian State

Portland @ Northern Colorado

Southern Mississippi @ Louisiana Tech

[Andy]

I have no 11s winning and a Final Four of all 2s. No 1s miss the Sweet 16 either - the lowest seeds I have in the 16 are Xavier and ND, both 6s.

 

This is a horrible bracket I have. I think I'll be tinkering, which I never do, but I feel so awful about these picks.

[chuckywang]

Here are the first round games for the IMPORTANT tournaments:

 

CBI:

Indiana State @ St. Louis

Green Bay @ Akron

Virginia Commonwealth @ George Washington

Charleston @ Eastern Kentucky

Boston University @ Oregon State

Colorado State @ Morehead State

IUPUI @ Hofstra

Duquesne @ Princeton

 

College Insider:

South Dakota @ Creighton

Fairfield @ George Mason

Western Carolina @ Marshall

Pacific @ Loyola Marymount

Middle Tennessee State @ Missouri State

Harvard @ Appalachian State

Portland @ Northern Colorado

Southern Mississippi @ Louisiana Tech

 

I'm guessing a few teams rejected invites, cause there are better teams that didn't make the NIT than that.

[gflore34]

The after -effects of the Gordon fiasco are over with the arrival of Richmond, Head and Leonard, couple that with the return of every significant player from this year' team and Weber has no excuses. No reason at all for the Illini not to be a top 10 team and a FF contender next season.

[hawkeyecub]

 

I guess my point is that Illinois, with all of its resources, should be one of those schools that's always in the top 10-15 or so unless it's a true rebuilding year. If not in basketball then in football. I think you guys should work up the fan base into such an irrational lather that you'll end up with the big splashy hire that'll bring in the sick recruiting classes.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_population

 

Look at the top 10. Besides NY, which has a very fragmented state university system, Illinois is the only one that doesn't field a powerhouse football and/or basketball program (and never has really). There's something wrong with that.

 

There's a much stronger advantage in basketball than football though. Their football program doesn't have the tradition and the in-state talent level is higher comparatively in basketball than football.

[illiniguy]

 

And Kruger was not going to make Illinois into a perennial powerhouse. He was very fortunate that Peoria was so fertile while he was here. He wasn't getting anything out of the Chicago area. Self, I could see, but it's easy to say that now that he's gone on to one of the programs that recruits itself, and allows people who can't read like Brandon Rush into the school.

 

and, like i said, self wasn't a very good recruiter while at illinois.

The class he had together for the year after Deron was going to be pretty special. He had CV, RM, WC, and BR. All of them were very highly ranked. I think he was starting to become a monster recruiter even at Illinois.

Edited March 15, 2010 by illiniguy