Cub prospects in the news

[Guest]

You can blame me, I brought it up. My point was that the over the top irritation that the Front Office is a bunch of dolts who are playing Baseball Mogul and ignoring the MLB team is silly. Maybe more to the point, if you take the financial resources they have to work with as a given(you don't have to agree, but that argument has flimsy relevance to judging Hoyer/Epstein), then the only way you can really come up with a team that's going to be competitive significantly earlier is to jump through a ton of hoops. That doesn't mean we shouldn't evaluate them in light of those outcomes, it simply means the "START TRYING IDIOTS" rhetoric is dumb in light of a solution with such a narrow path to a better outcome.

 

I think all-in-all, they've done an above-average job with the resources they've been given. I don't think they are the golden gods of baseball that they get painted as sometimes, but I'm not unhappy with their end at the moment.

 

You just called Theo amazing the other day. I have proof.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

You just called Theo amazing the other day. I have proof.

 

He can be amazing. But sometimes it's like pulling teeth to get people to admit that he's ever made any sort of mistake or miscalculation.

[imb]

You just called Theo amazing the other day. I have proof.

 

He can be amazing. But sometimes it's like pulling teeth to get people to admit that he's ever made any sort of mistake or miscalculation.

 

thanks for today's pointless circular [expletive] show then

[Hairyducked Idiot]

thanks for today's pointless circular [expletive] show then

 

This one wasn't on me. It was two pages deep before I got here.

[abuck1220]

two seasons are lost so i'm pretty much on board with the "hope our top 6 prospects all pan out" plan because they've kinda painted themselves into that corner. i mean, there's no going back to rescue the last two seasons and now the propsects that could help are getting close.

 

though, man, if baez and bryant and soler are busts...this franchise is in some serious trouble.

[treebird]

two seasons are lost so i'm pretty much on board with the "hope our top 6 prospects all pan out" plan because they've kinda painted themselves into that corner. i mean, there's no going back to rescue the last two seasons and now the propsects that could help are getting close.

 

though, man, if baez and bryant and soler are busts...this franchise is in some serious trouble.

 

i like those guys a lot, but don't you have to sort of just think this franchise is in serious trouble? there's just no way all of the top guys pan out, and even from the top four, aren't you realistically doing well if you get a very good (though non-star) player and a couple acceptable starters out of that group?

[XZero771679666304]

You just called Theo amazing the other day. I have proof.

 

He can be amazing. But sometimes it's like pulling teeth to get people to admit that he's ever made any sort of mistake or miscalculation.

 

That's overstating things a tad.

 

Of course he and Jed make mistakes, that's a given. What baseball executives do is not an exact science, and you expect even the best ones to miss as often as they hit.

[pitchcs]

two seasons are lost so i'm pretty much on board with the "hope our top 6 prospects all pan out" plan because they've kinda painted themselves into that corner. i mean, there's no going back to rescue the last two seasons and now the propsects that could help are getting close.

 

though, man, if baez and bryant and soler are busts...this franchise is in some serious trouble.

 

Just don't see it. At least not total busts.

[Guest]

two seasons are lost so i'm pretty much on board with the "hope our top 6 prospects all pan out" plan because they've kinda painted themselves into that corner. i mean, there's no going back to rescue the last two seasons and now the propsects that could help are getting close.

 

though, man, if baez and bryant and soler are busts...this franchise is in some serious trouble.

 

i like those guys a lot, but don't you have to sort of just think this franchise is in serious trouble? there's just no way all of the top guys pan out, and even from the top four, aren't you realistically doing well if you get a very good (though non-star) player and a couple acceptable starters out of that group?

 

I've said something similar before, but to expand a bit, the near term Cubs will rise or fall with Castro, Rizzo, Samardzija, Baez, and maybe Bryant/Soler. If they aren't getting star level production from several of those guys, then their chances of being a great team go way down.

 

How that colors your opinion of the Front Office is a bit of a different question. Personally, I think that if Castro and Samardzija aren't ending up more than complementary guys, that truly underscores the atrocious level of talent in the organization when Theo and Jed took over. They can also take at least some responsibility for player development, because that's what we were relying on them to fix along with better talent selection, but in terms of the whole picture, Castro and Samardzija flat-lining puts a cherry on top of Hendry's crap sundae more than indicts them for relying on those players while adding pieces around them.

[treebird]

two seasons are lost so i'm pretty much on board with the "hope our top 6 prospects all pan out" plan because they've kinda painted themselves into that corner. i mean, there's no going back to rescue the last two seasons and now the propsects that could help are getting close.

 

though, man, if baez and bryant and soler are busts...this franchise is in some serious trouble.

 

i like those guys a lot, but don't you have to sort of just think this franchise is in serious trouble? there's just no way all of the top guys pan out, and even from the top four, aren't you realistically doing well if you get a very good (though non-star) player and a couple acceptable starters out of that group?

 

I've said something similar before, but to expand a bit, the near term Cubs will rise or fall with Castro, Rizzo, Samardzija, Baez, and maybe Bryant/Soler. If they aren't getting star level production from several of those guys, then their chances of being a great team go way down.

 

How that colors your opinion of the Front Office is a bit of a different question. Personally, I think that if Castro and Samardzija aren't ending up more than complementary guys, that truly underscores the atrocious level of talent in the organization when Theo and Jed took over. They can also take at least some responsibility for player development, because that's what we were relying on them to fix along with better talent selection, but in terms of the whole picture, Castro and Samardzija flat-lining puts a cherry on top of Hendry's crap sundae more than indicts them for relying on those players while adding pieces around them.

 

that is a really good expansion and i agree with all of that. well put.

[jersey cubs fan]

two seasons are lost so i'm pretty much on board with the "hope our top 6 prospects all pan out" plan because they've kinda painted themselves into that corner. i mean, there's no going back to rescue the last two seasons and now the propsects that could help are getting close.

 

though, man, if baez and bryant and soler are busts...this franchise is in some serious trouble.

 

i like those guys a lot, but don't you have to sort of just think this franchise is in serious trouble? there's just no way all of the top guys pan out, and even from the top four, aren't you realistically doing well if you get a very good (though non-star) player and a couple acceptable starters out of that group?

 

I've said something similar before, but to expand a bit, the near term Cubs will rise or fall with Castro, Rizzo, Samardzija, Baez, and maybe Bryant/Soler. If they aren't getting star level production from several of those guys, then their chances of being a great team go way down.

 

How that colors your opinion of the Front Office is a bit of a different question. Personally, I think that if Castro and Samardzija aren't ending up more than complementary guys, that truly underscores the atrocious level of talent in the organization when Theo and Jed took over. They can also take at least some responsibility for player development, because that's what we were relying on them to fix along with better talent selection, but in terms of the whole picture, Castro and Samardzija flat-lining puts a cherry on top of Hendry's crap sundae more than indicts them for relying on those players while adding pieces around them.

 

Those two guys who were actually good and getting better suddenly falling off the cliff would have to put at least as much blame on the development side than on the talent side. The talent was there. That much is obvious.

[KingCubsFan]

two seasons are lost so i'm pretty much on board with the "hope our top 6 prospects all pan out" plan because they've kinda painted themselves into that corner. i mean, there's no going back to rescue the last two seasons and now the propsects that could help are getting close.

 

though, man, if baez and bryant and soler are busts...this franchise is in some serious trouble.

 

i like those guys a lot, but don't you have to sort of just think this franchise is in serious trouble? there's just no way all of the top guys pan out, and even from the top four, aren't you realistically doing well if you get a very good (though non-star) player and a couple acceptable starters out of that group?

 

I've said something similar before, but to expand a bit, the near term Cubs will rise or fall with Castro, Rizzo, Samardzija, Baez, and maybe Bryant/Soler. If they aren't getting star level production from several of those guys, then their chances of being a great team go way down.

 

How that colors your opinion of the Front Office is a bit of a different question. Personally, I think that if Castro and Samardzija aren't ending up more than complementary guys, that truly underscores the atrocious level of talent in the organization when Theo and Jed took over. They can also take at least some responsibility for player development, because that's what we were relying on them to fix along with better talent selection, but in terms of the whole picture, Castro and Samardzija flat-lining puts a cherry on top of Hendry's crap sundae more than indicts them for relying on those players while adding pieces around them.

 

Those two guys who were actually good and getting better suddenly falling off the cliff would have to put at least as much blame on the development side than on the talent side. The talent was there. That much is obvious.

Particularly Castro. I'm not worried about Samardzija despite his past few starts.

[Sammy Sofa]

two seasons are lost so i'm pretty much on board with the "hope our top 6 prospects all pan out" plan because they've kinda painted themselves into that corner. i mean, there's no going back to rescue the last two seasons and now the propsects that could help are getting close.

 

though, man, if baez and bryant and soler are busts...this franchise is in some serious trouble.

 

i like those guys a lot, but don't you have to sort of just think this franchise is in serious trouble? there's just no way all of the top guys pan out, and even from the top four, aren't you realistically doing well if you get a very good (though non-star) player and a couple acceptable starters out of that group?

 

Despite the all prospect team nonsense being tossed out, you have to assume some of these guys are going to be traded. Not all of them are going to be here to have the opportunity to bust.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I'm perfectly on board with the idea that Epstein didn't inherit as much as would have been ideal, although it wasn't completely nothing.

 

But I'm inclined to blame the organization for screwing up Castro if that's how things go, way more than I'm inclined to say "well, he just never was a talent to begin with."

[Guest]

I'm perfectly on board with the idea that Epstein didn't inherit as much as would have been ideal, although it wasn't completely nothing.

 

But I'm inclined to blame the organization for screwing up Castro if that's how things go, way more than I'm inclined to say "well, he just never was a talent to begin with."

 

To be clear, I'm not really talking about if Starlin never cracks 2 WAR again, you of all people should know I don't think that's at all likely. I'm talking about him never going beyond what he's done thus far, which is being a 3ish win player. Same with Shark. I think there's a lot more room in the talent v. development debate in that instance.

[SouthSideRyan]

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=9568792

 

Law interviews McLeod

 

Law: I was on our Chicago affiliate earlier today and the host asked me if it was realistic that the Cubs could compete for a playoff spot in 2015. I thought it was optimistic, but not unrealistic...

 

McCleod: On the first part of your question, regarding the playoffs. You also have to remember with our division, with those teams, STL, PIT, CIN, they are all top organizations that are great and it's going to be a bear.

 

Oh, [expletive] you

[SouthSideRyan]

Seriously I'd love to hear the list of free agents the last two years that would have radically improved this team.

 

We're talking about it being inexcusable to not compete for a playoff spot until 2015, not what their record was last year.

 

Did I read the McLeod quote wrong? He basically said tough [expletive], we won't be in the playoffs in 2015 either, not when we have to compete with the Pirates AND the Reds

[Tangled Up in Plaid]

Huh, I thought this was Cubs prospects in the news, not a bitch fest about the front office.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I really hope he's just being coy or something.

 

Because while he's not wrong that the division is brutal, one of my favorite things about poaching from the Boston front office is how they were in the same division as the unstoppable Yankees and seemed to revel in taking them on and turning it into an escalating arms race.

 

Now we're scared of the Pirates.

[TruffleShuffle]

Seriously I'd love to hear the list of free agents the last two years that would have radically improved this team.

 

We're talking about it being inexcusable to not compete for a playoff spot until 2015, not what their record was last year.

 

Did I read the McLeod quote wrong? He basically said tough [expletive], we won't be in the playoffs in 2015 either, not when we have to compete with the Pirates AND the Reds

 

yes, you definitely read it wrong.

[Gilby]

Seriously I'd love to hear the list of free agents the last two years that would have radically improved this team.

 

We're talking about it being inexcusable to not compete for a playoff spot until 2015, not what their record was last year.

 

Did I read the McLeod quote wrong? He basically said tough [expletive], we won't be in the playoffs in 2015 either, not when we have to compete with the Pirates AND the Reds

 

He didn't say 'no' to the question. He was just being respectful to the other teams in the division.

[SouthSideRyan]

And I apologize that I'm semi re-hashing topics from the rest of today, but I haven't been around so screw you. What do those of you who find it acceptable to starting "competing for a playoff spot" in 2015 think is a good long-term estimate for the White Sox's playoff chances, because that farm system is worse than anything Thed took over, and they don't get inflated revenue due to being the Cubs. 2018?

[Guest]

I'm being half-to-somewhat serious when I say the White Sox are done indefinitely.

[TruffleShuffle]

the white sox could probably compete next year, if they really feel like it. they've already got some good starting pitching. if players like flowers, ramirez and viciedo perform a little closer to expectations, then there's some offensive improvement. then they could chuck huge contracts at choo/ellsbury and cano, and that's not a terrible team on paper. probably enough to at least compete in a poor division. but the point isn't really to throw ridiculous contracts at players in an effort to maybe make the playoffs this year or next, to the long term detriment of the organization. ryan howard certainly helped the phillies compete from 2008-2012, but that doesn't make it great that the phillies are paying him $25m a year for the next few years. the cubs are trying to build a model for sustained success; failing to do this was probably hendry's greatest weakness.

[SouthSideRyan]

Oh come on. What does Ryan Howard have to do with anybody anyone has suggested going after this offseason?