Cubs keep Patton, Guzman

[RedFlash]

Interesting gamble by the Cubs taking potential over major league proven (good or bad) pitcher.

 

Personally, I like the risk for the Cubs. I didn't want to send Patton back to the Rockies and the Cubs definately would have lost Angel Guzman on waivers (the Padres are prolly the most disappointed team with this announcement because you KNOW they were hoping either Patton or Guzman would be exposed to waivers).

[Illini Iceman]

What a waste. We need start pitching depth

 

I tend to agree, but if Gaudin was going to struggle getting guys out then he doesn't really provide much starting pitching depth. Cubs probably figure Shark / Hart / Adkins ready in AAA can provide the same level of production for DL replacment starts as Gaudin.

 

Thinking about it, Gaudin probably didn't do himself any favors with his bit goofy beard. I mean the guy already supposedly went on the DL last year for being an idiot and hurting himself when he is drunk. So he knows that he may already be on thin ice with Lou so he comes in looking like a clown that is not taking things seriously. Probably still makes the team without any doubt if he pitches well, but when he struggles it couldn't have helped the perception in Lou's eyes that he is not a serious athelete. Eyre had the same problem with Lou, and eventually it was his ticket out the door (though it did work out pretty well for him).

 

Not saying it is right but, just like any other employee, sometimes you have to adjust your style to your boss or you are not going to get any favors.

[17 Seconds]

If his facial hair factored into the decision of Lou/Jim even the slightest bit, that would be ridiculous

[Irrelevant Dude]

Guzman, Patten, and Vizcaino... Yikes!

 

Hopefully Guzman and Patten will surprise me, but this seems like a very weak core of middle relievers. At this point, the only 2 guys in the bullpen I really trust are Marmol and Heilman.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I'm excited to see what Patton and especially Guzman do. I'm disappointed that we had to dump a pretty useful swingman to do so. How much could it have taken to get Patton's rights, and let him pitch in AAA(he's never pitched above A+) to make sure he wasn't a ST mirage? I understand this scenario doesn't add anyone with options, but it adds flexibility(extra player, extra player we can send down) with minimal loss(even if Gaudin is awful and Patton is awesome, the amount of innings necessary to figure that out wouldn't have a huge impact on the team).

[NCCubFan]

How much could it have taken to get Patton's rights, and let him pitch in AAA(he's never pitched above A+) to make sure he wasn't a ST mirage?

The only way they could have done that would be if he first cleared waivers. I think some pitching-starved non-contender (e.g. Pittsburgh or San Diego) would have claimed him and kept him on the roster with the hope he'd contribute in the future.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

How much could it have taken to get Patton's rights, and let him pitch in AAA(he's never pitched above A+) to make sure he wasn't a ST mirage?

The only way they could have done that would be if he first cleared waivers. I think some pitching-starved non-contender (e.g. Pittsburgh or San Diego) would have claimed him and kept him on the roster with the hope he'd contribute in the future.

 

No, they could've sent something to Colorado to get his full rights.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Im pretty confident that Gaudin will find a new home in the not too distant future.

[wilk]

How much could it have taken to get Patton's rights, and let him pitch in AAA(he's never pitched above A+) to make sure he wasn't a ST mirage?

The only way they could have done that would be if he first cleared waivers. I think some pitching-starved non-contender (e.g. Pittsburgh or San Diego) would have claimed him and kept him on the roster with the hope he'd contribute in the future.

 

No, they could've sent something to Colorado to get his full rights.

 

Incorrect. He would have to pass through waivers BEFORE Colorado could trade him.

[NCCubFan]

How much could it have taken to get Patton's rights, and let him pitch in AAA(he's never pitched above A+) to make sure he wasn't a ST mirage?

The only way they could have done that would be if he first cleared waivers. I think some pitching-starved non-contender (e.g. Pittsburgh or San Diego) would have claimed him and kept him on the roster with the hope he'd contribute in the future.

 

No, they could've sent something to Colorado to get his full rights.

 

Incorrect. He would have to pass through waivers BEFORE Colorado could trade him.

That's what I thought, but I'm not 100% certain of all the nuances of Rule V. My understanding is that another team could claim him but would then be subject to the same restrictions to keep him.

[Jehrico]

How much could it have taken to get Patton's rights, and let him pitch in AAA(he's never pitched above A+) to make sure he wasn't a ST mirage?

The only way they could have done that would be if he first cleared waivers. I think some pitching-starved non-contender (e.g. Pittsburgh or San Diego) would have claimed him and kept him on the roster with the hope he'd contribute in the future.

 

No, they could've sent something to Colorado to get his full rights.

 

Incorrect. He would have to pass through waivers BEFORE Colorado could trade him.

We got him in the rule 5, right? If so, then this isnt' a question of waivers, as he has options. We can't send him down without offering him back to Colorado for half of the 50k or whatever it costs to claim him. They own his rights unless we keep him on the 25 man roster the entire year. Think Andy Sisco when KC picked him up. Either that, or we could send something to Colorado for his full rights, and they would let us keep him and send him down instead forcing us to keep him on the 25 man roster.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I can't find anything definitively, but I did find that players being returned to the original club have to be exposed to waivers with the same Rule 5 obligations(which intuitively makes no sense), so I imagine it would work the same for trades as well.

[Athletics36]

Billy Beane strikes again!! Must've been a reason he let him go with Harden.

I think we've gotten the better of Billy Beane trades in the past. This is probably the first time he got the better of us as far as I can recall.

 

Whether Beane got the best of the Cubs is still open to question at this point. Gallagher has gone from No. 2 starter to out of the rotation for Oakland, as his velocity dropped as spring training went on. Eric Patterson is in the minor leagues, as is Murton, with Colorado. If Harden stays healthy and makes 25 starts and most of them are of the quality variety, then I think the Cubs get the better of this deal. But it's too early to judge now.

 

Don't know where your getting your facts but nothing wrong with Gallaghers velocity as of the other night. Would expect him to be back in the rotation shortly.

[wilk]

We got him in the rule 5, right? If so, then this isnt' a question of waivers, as he has options. We can't send him down without offering him back to Colorado for half of the 50k or whatever it costs to claim him. They own his rights unless we keep him on the 25 man roster the entire year. Think Andy Sisco when KC picked him up. Either that, or we could send something to Colorado for his full rights, and they would let us keep him and send him down instead forcing us to keep him on the 25 man roster.

 

No, if the Cubs were to remove him from the 25-man roster in any fashion besides a disabled list, he FIRST is exposed to waivers and any team has the chance to claim him along with his Rule 5 restrictions. It's only AFTER he clears waivers that he no longer has the Rule 5 limitations and Colorado can either trade his rights or have him returned to their minor league reserve roster for $25k (or refuse the return, making him Cubs property). We cannot offer anything to Colorado for his rights unless every other team passes on him first.

 

(...definitively. :wink: )

[NCCubFan]

I think the reason a player has to clear waivers first is that the main purpose of Rule V is to protect a player who is blocked in his current system. Requiring a player to clear waivers before being returned to his original team provides some protection because it opens up the possibility of another team claiming him and keeping him in the majors rather than being returned to his original team and getting sent back down. If nobody is willing to keep him in the majors then his original team gets him back and can send him down. And I think that applies to trades because, until he is returned to his original team, they can't trade his rights because they don't have his rights to trade.

[Illini Iceman]

If his facial hair factored into the decision of Lou/Jim even the slightest bit, that would be ridiculous

 

My point is if you act (fall over drunk and hurt yourself) / look (have incredibly dumb facial hair) like a clown, better put up the numbers because otherwise if you have a boss that doesn't like to put up with clowns (Lou) he is going to to likely give another guy the benefit of the doubt if it is a close call.

 

We know that the Cubs were struggling over this decision so it is possible that if they felt at the end that it was a complete toss up that character / professionalism may have played a role in the final decision.

[Keener98]

Billy Beane strikes again!! Must've been a reason he let him go with Harden.

I think we've gotten the better of Billy Beane trades in the past. This is probably the first time he got the better of us as far as I can recall.

 

Whether Beane got the best of the Cubs is still open to question at this point. Gallagher has gone from No. 2 starter to out of the rotation for Oakland, as his velocity dropped as spring training went on. Eric Patterson is in the minor leagues, as is Murton, with Colorado. If Harden stays healthy and makes 25 starts and most of them are of the quality variety, then I think the Cubs get the better of this deal. But it's too early to judge now.

 

Don't know where your getting your facts but nothing wrong with Gallaghers velocity as of the other night. Would expect him to be back in the rotation shortly.

 

Id expect Gio Gonzalez to be in the rotation before Gallagher

[SouthSideRyan]

So the only reliever we're able to send down is...Marmol?

 

We can send Patton away after he stinks for the first month and a half.

[Danny82]

Billy Beane strikes again!! Must've been a reason he let him go with Harden.

I think we've gotten the better of Billy Beane trades in the past. This is probably the first time he got the better of us as far as I can recall.

 

Whether Beane got the best of the Cubs is still open to question at this point. Gallagher has gone from No. 2 starter to out of the rotation for Oakland, as his velocity dropped as spring training went on. Eric Patterson is in the minor leagues, as is Murton, with Colorado. If Harden stays healthy and makes 25 starts and most of them are of the quality variety, then I think the Cubs get the better of this deal. But it's too early to judge now.

 

Don't know where your getting your facts but nothing wrong with Gallaghers velocity as of the other night. Would expect him to be back in the rotation shortly.

 

Id expect Gio Gonzalez to be in the rotation before Gallagher

 

Not sure why. Gonzelez struggled greatly in his call up last year, didn't do all that well in AAA last year, and had a rather poor spring.

[treebird]

So the only reliever we're able to send down is...Marmol?

 

We can send Patton away after he stinks for the first month and a half.

 

agreed. it's not likely to be a huge deal, but i really don't know why a team in our spot would want to mess with a guy like patton at the expense of a guy like gaudin.

[Bote McBoteface]

So lets say that Patton shows enough promise during the season that we definitely want to keep him around, but not enough so that we trust him in a playoff game in 09. Would we be able to not include him on our playoff roster?

[wvcbxl]

Would we be able to not include him on our playoff roster?

 

I'm sure he could get a freak injury at the end of september. 8-)

 

I like this gamble on Guzman and Patton - in my book, it's some kind of "progress" in Hendry's thinking to boot the expensive guy and keep the Rule 5 kid.

We'll see how it works out though.

[wilk]

So lets say that Patton shows enough promise during the season that we definitely want to keep him around, but not enough so that we trust him in a playoff game in 09. Would we be able to not include him on our playoff roster?

 

Yes, he would not have to be on the active playoff roster. He would remain on the ML roster and playoff reserve list but they don't have to play him in the playoffs. He could also be put on the DL...

[NCCubFan]

Even apart from the playoffs, he could spend 90 days on the active roster and the rest of the season on the DL.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Billy Beane strikes again!! Must've been a reason he let him go with Harden.

I think we've gotten the better of Billy Beane trades in the past. This is probably the first time he got the better of us as far as I can recall.

 

Whether Beane got the best of the Cubs is still open to question at this point. Gallagher has gone from No. 2 starter to out of the rotation for Oakland, as his velocity dropped as spring training went on. Eric Patterson is in the minor leagues, as is Murton, with Colorado. If Harden stays healthy and makes 25 starts and most of them are of the quality variety, then I think the Cubs get the better of this deal. But it's too early to judge now.

 

Don't know where your getting your facts but nothing wrong with Gallaghers velocity as of the other night. Would expect him to be back in the rotation shortly.

 

Id expect Gio Gonzalez to be in the rotation before Gallagher

 

Whatever happen with the futures of any of those invloved in the trade, Gallagher is the only one who had a future with the Cubs of any sort, so as far as Im concerned, it was a stright up Harden for Gallagher trade. If Harden helps us win the series this year, as far as Im concerned, after that he could go the Mark Prior rout and Gallagher can be the next Maddux.