Trading Top Prospects

[PackLandVA]

Question for some of you with a lot more knowledge about baseball than me.

 

When was the last time the Cubs traded one of their top prospects or rising stars to another team, and that prospect actually turned out to be really good or make a significant impact on the new team(s)?

 

The reason I ask is because it seems more often than not, the Cubs and/or fans debate whether or not they should trade top prospect so-and-so, and when they don't, the prospect turns out not being as good as originally thought. Obviously Pie and Guzman come to mind as of late.

 

I know some of the prospects have been good/serviceable like Juan Cruz and Jon Garland(or the jury's still out because they're still young - Nolasco, Pinto). But it really seems like the Cubs farm system produces crap with regard to "top prospects". And they always seem a date late and a dollar short in trading the "next can't miss youngster".

 

Why do any of the other MLB teams even consider players in the Cubs farm system????

 

I'm sure I'm missing some "bad trades" of young talent the Cubs have made. Help me out.

[Clem Fandango]

Well, even though he sucks now you can add Dontrelle Willis to that list, but I don't know if he was ever considered one of our top prospects Edited December 14, 2008 by The Logan

[BigbadB]

Question for some of you with a lot more knowledge about baseball than me.

 

When was the last time the Cubs traded one of their top prospects or rising stars to another team, and that prospect actually turned out to be really good or make a significant impact on the new team(s)?

 

The reason I ask is because it seems more often than not, the Cubs and/or fans debate whether or not they should trade top prospect so-and-so, and when they don't, the prospect turns out not being as good as originally thought. Obviously Pie and Guzman come to mind as of late.

 

I know some of the prospects have been good/serviceable like Juan Cruz and Jon Garland(or the jury's still out because they're still young - Nolasco, Pinto). But it really seems like the Cubs farm system produces crap with regard to "top prospects". And they always seem a date late and a dollar short in trading the "next can't miss youngster".

 

Why do any of the other MLB teams even consider players in the Cubs farm system????

 

I'm sure I'm missing some "bad trades" of young talent the Cubs have made. Help me out.

 

The Cubs have had success in bringing in good players for crap prospects, for the most part. But, not every player in the Cubs farm system has been crap. Carlos Zambrano, Kerry Wood, Mark Prior, Carlos Marmol, Geovany Soto are a quick list of players I'm glad they didn't just trade for the sake of trading them. Granted, Soto was never a top prospect, but I'm glad he made the leap he did in '07 with the Cubs rather than somewhere else.

 

The lack of genuine quality talent is pretty staggering when looked at as a whole, however.

 

As far as the team being a day late and a dollar short in trading can't miss prospects? I don't find that to be true. Sure, they could have traded Corey Patterson sooner. They could have already traded Pie by now. Who else are we really talking about here?

[PackLandVA]

I guess I'd throw in there guys who were career minor leaguers (Dopirak, Harvey, Sisco) as well as players that have some MLB experience (Rich Hill, Sean Marshall). Even though they have experience, I still consider them prospects.

 

I do agree though, the Cubs have made some trades where they got some decent players for "crap" prospects (Nomar, ARam, etc.).

[BigbadB]

I guess I'd throw in there guys who were career minor leaguers (Dopirak, Harvey, Sisco) as well as players that have some MLB experience (Rich Hill, Sean Marshall). Even though they have experience, I still consider them prospects.

 

I do agree though, the Cubs have made some trades where they got some decent players for "crap" prospects (Nomar, ARam, etc.).

 

Dope might be fair. He certainly shot up the list at one point. But, he wasn't putting up those numbers in AA or AAA. His value dropped when he reached AA. There aren't many teams that are going to take notice of a guy like Dope down in low or high A.

 

Harvey and Sisco were also low level guys. Harvey never really put it together. Sisco was certainly getting some notice, but I saw value in keeping him rather than trading him.

 

Marshall is doing what we hoped he would do at the major league level. He's now insurance if Harden gets hurt. That's pretty valuable.

 

Who could have predicted what happened to Rich Hill? It's simply hindsight to say we should have traded him before his control disappeared.

[Exile on Waveland]

I guess I'd throw in there guys who were career minor leaguers (Dopirak, Harvey, Sisco) as well as players that have some MLB experience (Rich Hill, Sean Marshall). Even though they have experience, I still consider them prospects.

 

I do agree though, the Cubs have made some trades where they got some decent players for "crap" prospects (Nomar, ARam, etc.).

 

Who could have predicted what happened to Rich Hill? It's simply hindsight to say we should have traded him before his control disappeared.

 

Well, honestly, a lot of people said Rich Hill didn't have it upstairs and was weak mentally. I wasn't one of them; I try to stay out of amateur psychology. Those people, of course, were scoffed at. It does seem, however, that his problems have turned out to be mental not physical. So perhaps it was more predictable than you allow.

[UMFan83]

Josh Hamilton?

 

 

 

(I kid)

 

Raffey Palmeiro?

[bdutts]

In '84, Joe Carter was traded for Sutcliffe. Carter was a top prospect.

 

The Palmeiro trade was more recent that that, though.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I've never understood why control problems are presumed to be mental. Control is every bit as much a physical skill as velocity or movement.

[CUBZ99]

Wasn't there an article last year that ranked the Cubs among the top half teams in developing major league talent?

[Exile on Waveland]

I've never understood why control problems are presumed to be mental. Control is every bit as much a physical skill as velocity or movement.

 

When it completely disappears a la Hill, you have to wonder about the mental issue. It may or may not be, who knows? From an exterior perspective, it seems to have been an instigator here.

[BigbadB]

Wasn't there an article last year that ranked the Cubs among the top half teams in developing major league talent?

 

There's major league talent and there's quality major league talent. There's a pretty long list of major league talent. But, I don't think he is really talking about Augie Ojeda, Scott Downs, Todd Wellemeyer and the long list of generic ballplayers currently rostered in MLB.

[Roast]

Josh Hamilton?

 

 

 

(I kid)

 

Raffey Palmeiro?

 

 

Well, didn't trade Maddux, we let him walk. Plus I suppose he had already won a Cy Young so I guess he wasn't just a "prospect" anymore. So really what I'm saying is he's not a good example.

[SouthSideRyan]

Ricky Nolasco quietly had a really good year last year.

 

Kyle Loshe has put together a pretty nice career for himself.

 

Ohman and Cruz are good relievers. Blevins had a good half-year in his first shot at the bigs.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I've never understood why control problems are presumed to be mental. Control is every bit as much a physical skill as velocity or movement.

 

When it completely disappears a la Hill, you have to wonder about the mental issue. It may or may not be, who knows? From an exterior perspective, it seems to have been an instigator here.

 

If a guy suddenly drops 10 MPH in velocity, everyone would assume he had arm problems.

 

But control is always assumed to be mental, when it's just as much a physical skill.

[17 Seconds]

Ricky Nolasco quietly had a really good year last year.

 

I can't believe Nolasco isn't talked about more on this board. He wasn't just good last year... he was excellent. His post ASB numbers are especially insane. He had a .99 WHIP and 98/12 BB/K after the break

[BCVM22]

98/12 BB/K after the break

 

This is a typo, I assume.

[Vanilla Ice]

98/12 BB/K after the break

 

This is a typo, I assume.

According to Baseball-Reference, that is true.

 

:shock:

[RedFlash]

nm Edited December 15, 2008 by RedFlash

[Vanilla Ice]

98/12 BB/K after the break

 

This is a typo, I assume.

According to Baseball-Reference, that is true.

 

:shock:

oh yea, you meant the BB/K part.

[sporrer17]

Garland ended up decent...ummm other than that, I can't think of too many.

[Outshined_One]

When was the last time the Cubs traded one of their top prospects or rising stars to another team, and that prospect actually turned out to be really good or make a significant impact on the new team(s)?

 

Give Sean Gallagher and Josh Donaldson a few years, imo.

[The Other 15]

Nolasco? One 98 IP stretch hasn't put him in that star player that the Cubs gave up category yet.

 

Willis? Never a highly ranked prospect. He did put up a few decent seasons recently, but again, not that stud they missed on.

 

Jamie Moyer has had a nice career but he was never a top prospect and I think even he has to be amused how long he's lasted.

 

If you're want to know which Cub prospect was traded for a quality return and ended up being a stud, you have to go back to Palmiero (main piece of Mich Williams deal) and Joe Carter (main piece of Sutcliffe deal).

[SouthSideRyan]

Nolasco? One 98 IP stretch hasn't put him in that star player that the Cubs gave up category yet.

 

Willis? Never a highly ranked prospect. He did put up a few decent seasons recently, but again, not that stud they missed on.

 

Jamie Moyer has had a nice career but he was never a top prospect and I think even he has to be amused how long he's lasted.

 

If you're want to know which Cub prospect was traded for a quality return and ended up being a stud, you have to go back to Palmiero (main piece of Mich Williams deal) and Joe Carter (main piece of Sutcliffe deal).

 

Nolasco wasn't exactly garbage in the first half last year. 3.70 ERA with an 88/30 K/BB.

 

Willis depends on your definition of highly ranked. He was definitely well regarded at the time of the trade. He wasn't some lottery ticket.

[The Other 15]

Nolasco and Willis, while high in our system (top ten), weren't top 50 talents.

 

Maybe I read too much into the question of this thread but I'm under the impression the poster was asking about Vitters type prospects.

 

Sure Nolasco had a good year. We'll still have to wait a couple of more years to see if he becomes a stud.