Re: Peavy High on Cubs Wish List

[windycityfan]

Can someone provide me with Peavy's Road ERA+ or a link to it?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

the 7th and 8th best prospects in the cubs terrible farm system is not going to get hermida. come on. if kevin hart and ronny cedeno are deal breakers, you don't think twice about it. you could replace them both in one second.

 

Who do you replace them with? Hart, Cedeno, Atkins, Guzman, even Pie may not have a ton of value to other teams, but 1) they asked for them for a reason, and 2) the Cubs already weak system has no one to pick up the slack for them in the organization. It's one thing to not care if one of them goes in a deal, it's another to care if they all go, it's how you end up with Les Walrond pitching in meaningful games or Joe Simokaitis getting meaningful at bats.

[17 Seconds]

What contenders have a rotation whose second and third starters are that big of question marks?

 

Umm. All of 'em.

Certainly most, anyway.

 

All of the NL Central for sure.

 

Brett Myers as a #2 is surely a questionmark. As are John Maine and Javier Vazquez.

 

Is Kershaw the Dodgers #2 now behind Billingsley, with Lowe and Penny gone? Huge upside but definitely a questionmark.

 

I'm not talking about question marks, I'm talking about injury and regression. With those teams you're pretty know what you're getting and aren't really counting on those guys to be great. We're counting on that from Harden and Dempster.

 

The bottom line is that if Harden and Dempster get injured and suck, the rotation is not good. That is relevant because there is a pretty good chance both of those things happen.

[jersey cubs fan]

What contenders have a rotation whose second and third starters are that big of question marks?

 

Umm. All of 'em.

 

Okay, so name a contender whose numbers 2 and 3 starters are as likely to get hurt and regress as Harden and Dempster

 

Haha. Yeah, right. I'll get right on that. Any player can get hurt or regress.

 

And Harden is more likely than any other to get hurt while Dempster has to be at or near the top of the list of likely regression.

[abuck1220]

Ok, if the rumors are true, and Towers was asking for six or seven players...

 

DeRosa, Marshall, Vitters, Pie, Cedeno, Hart and Guzman have all been repeatedly connected to this deal. If that's actually the deal, I'm inclined to think Hendry did the right thing by stepping away.

 

i would not miss any of those players.

 

The point is, why buy at full price when you can pick it up discounted later? This is a poker game, and Hendry is gambling that he can get Peavy cheaper, and imagine he's right.

 

yippy skippy, we'll get to keep kevin hart, a mediocre AAA middle reliever. won't that be great.

 

Or he'll get to keep Marshall and Cedeno. Or DeRosa and Marshall. Or DeRosa and Pie.

 

ok, we'll see if the cubs get peavy w/o trading derosa and pie.

 

they're not trading for livan hernandez, guys. you may have to give up sean marshall, your 25 year old #7 starter, or ronny cedeno, your backup ss, or mark derosa, your 34 year old 2b who is under contract for one more season. come on.

[YearofDaCubs]

I have a problem with DeRosa being included. The last thing we need is to get rid of a good player who happened to show up in the playoffs unlike his other teammates. Who do we replace him with? Fontenot IMO isn't good enough. I don't care what DeRosa's age is. The main focus for the Cubs is to win the world series, how are we going to do that with a lesser offense?

 

Derosa is a nice player but he's not nearly good enough to hold up a trade for far better player. He's replacable, and just because you don't care about his age doesn't mean that it's not an issue.

No, that production is not replaceable at 2B. Now if you tell me you are working on a Furcal deal after DeRo gets moved for Peavy, then we'll talk. But let's not make it seem that DeRo is some scrub player that can be easily replaced by a Fontenot or old ass veteran.

[17 Seconds]

What contenders have a rotation whose second and third starters are that big of question marks?

 

Umm. All of 'em.

 

Okay, so name a contender whose numbers 2 and 3 starters are as likely to get hurt and regress as Harden and Dempster

 

Haha. Yeah, right. I'll get right on that. Any player can get hurt or regress.

 

Uhh yeah, but what players are as likely as Harden and Dempster? It's not jyst a chance, it's a good chance.

 

So you say "all of em" when I ask what teams are that suspect, and then why I ask to give an example you sau "haha, yeah right"

 

Well played.

[Blue W]

I'm perfectly OK going into the season with Zambrano, Harden, Dempster, Lilly and Marshall. But with Peavy on this team we're the consensus NL favorite. Now we're just consensus NL Central favorites with a big question mark about our ability to get to the second round.

 

I know we need a bat in RF. I know we have to move Marquis. But I am really torn about whether a six for one deal was really that unreasonable given the marginal (other than vitters potential) talent involved. I'm going back and forth, but I just think those guys are replaceable. Peavy, not so much.

 

I get both sides of this argument. But I think if they announced the deal had been done, I would have been very happy. Is that so wrong :cry:

[BigbadB]

Because the 7th and 8th guys might be the guys who could acquire someone like Hermida

 

 

Are you kidding me?

 

Nope. Not at all. Marshall and Pie would be a nice package for Hermida. Maybe even Marshall and Vitters.

 

Maybe it's not enough. If so, look elsewhere.

 

I'm just baffled that anyone would think you just keep throwing more and more names at someone in hopes that it will be enough when it is obviously clear that the other team has zero leverage.

[jersey cubs fan]

the 7th and 8th best prospects in the cubs terrible farm system is not going to get hermida. come on. if kevin hart and ronny cedeno are deal breakers, you don't think twice about it. you could replace them both in one second.

 

Who do you replace them with? Hart, Cedeno, Atkins, Guzman, even Pie may not have a ton of value to other teams, but 1) they asked for them for a reason, and 2) the Cubs already weak system has no one to pick up the slack for them in the organization. It's one thing to not care if one of them goes in a deal, it's another to care if they all go, it's how you end up with Les Walrond pitching in meaningful games or Joe Simokaitis getting meaningful at bats.

 

It's a stretch to suggest they'd be meaningful. Pie is absolutely worthless to the Cubs. I don't care how good or bad Iowa is next year. The OF is already too crowded for him and it is more likely than not going to be overwhelmingly crowded if/when they get a RF. Hart? Atkins? Cedeno? Guzman? You're counting on them bringing something to the table? None of them are going to make a difference to the 2009 Cubs, and there's extremely small chance that any of them make a difference to any future Cubs team. If you can get some quality for your soon-to-be departed quantity, you do it.

[abuck1220]

the 7th and 8th best prospects in the cubs terrible farm system is not going to get hermida. come on. if kevin hart and ronny cedeno are deal breakers, you don't think twice about it. you could replace them both in one second.

 

Who do you replace them with? Hart, Cedeno, Atkins, Guzman, even Pie may not have a ton of value to other teams, but 1) they asked for them for a reason, and 2) the Cubs already weak system has no one to pick up the slack for them in the organization. It's one thing to not care if one of them goes in a deal, it's another to care if they all go, it's how you end up with Les Walrond pitching in meaningful games or Joe Simokaitis getting meaningful at bats.

 

kevin hart and ronny cedeno weren't necessary in meaningful games last year, so i don't think their replacements would be this year.

[BigbadB]

What contenders have a rotation whose second and third starters are that big of question marks?

 

Umm. All of 'em.

 

Okay, so name a contender whose numbers 2 and 3 starters are as likely to get hurt and regress as Harden and Dempster

 

Haha. Yeah, right. I'll get right on that. Any player can get hurt or regress.

 

Uhh yeah, but what players are as likely as Harden and Dempster? It's not jyst a chance, it's a good chance.

 

So you say "all of em" when I ask what teams are that suspect, and then why I ask to give an example you sau "haha, yeah right"

 

Well played.

 

I already gave examples. I said ALL OF THEM.

[jersey cubs fan]

Because the 7th and 8th guys might be the guys who could acquire someone like Hermida

 

 

Are you kidding me?

 

Nope. Not at all. Marshall and Pie would be a nice package for Hermida. Maybe even Marshall and Vitters.

 

Maybe it's not enough. If so, look elsewhere.

 

I'm just baffled that anyone would think you just keep throwing more and more names at someone in hopes that it will be enough when it is obviously clear that the other team has zero leverage.

 

How the hell is Vitters the 7th and 8th player in that deal?

I'm baffled by how unrealistic people view the quantity aspect of this deal. They are worthless.

[17 Seconds]

Ok, if the rumors are true, and Towers was asking for six or seven players...

 

DeRosa, Marshall, Vitters, Pie, Cedeno, Hart and Guzman have all been repeatedly connected to this deal. If that's actually the deal, I'm inclined to think Hendry did the right thing by stepping away.

 

i would not miss any of those players.

 

The point is, why buy at full price when you can pick it up discounted later? This is a poker game, and Hendry is gambling that he can get Peavy cheaper, and imagine he's right.

 

yippy skippy, we'll get to keep kevin hart, a mediocre AAA middle reliever. won't that be great.

 

Or he'll get to keep Marshall and Cedeno. Or DeRosa and Marshall. Or DeRosa and Pie.

 

ok, we'll see if the cubs get peavy w/o trading derosa and pie.

 

they're not trading for livan hernandez, guys. you may have to give up sean marshall, your 25 year old #7 starter, or ronny cedeno, your backup ss, or mark derosa, your 34 year old 2b who is under contract for one more season. come on.

 

Marshall is extremely valuable when Rich Harden is in your rotation. Without Marshall who iflls in for him when he misses half the season? Samardzija? Guadin? Guzman?

 

DeRosa is also more valuable than you're making him out to be. He's not just a 2B, he can play everywhere. That would be especially valuable if we sign Bradley.

 

Would you seriously trade DeRosa, Marshall, Vitters, Pie, Cedeno, Hart and Guzman for Peavy? That is a bad trade, any way you slice it.

 

Plus, what happens if you need upgrades at the deadline? What happens if the bullpen sucks, or Ramirez goes down for the season? What do you have to trade? Absolutely nothing.

[cubsfan26]

Ok, if the rumors are true, and Towers was asking for six or seven players...

 

DeRosa, Marshall, Vitters, Pie, Cedeno, Hart and Guzman have all been repeatedly connected to this deal. If that's actually the deal, I'm inclined to think Hendry did the right thing by stepping away.

 

 

Yes thats way too much for one player, even if it's an elite pitcher like Peavy.

 

come on. hart and cedeno are nobodies...they have no value at all. nearly every team has players like that sitting on their AAA roster. marshall is probably above average, derosa's 34, pie doesn't have a job for the next three seasons, guzman is obviously a huge injury risk, vitters is years away and already has health concerns. while big in numbers, that is not an overwhelming amount of talent.

 

 

People aren't looking at the big picture, it's not just what we give up. It's what it does to the team and roster, losing DeRosa and Marshall really hurts team depth. Losing Guzman takes away a reliever with has a bunch of upside in the pen. Trading Pie, Vitters and others takes away all our good trade pieces. Tell me this, what we gonna do if Ramirez or Soriano miss a month or two? Mix that with possibly having Milton Bradley in RF? What we gonna do if Harden makes only 15 starts next year? Who's starting Randy Wells or Mitch Atkins? What if we need to add a player midseason, who do we have to trade? It's not the best interest of the team to trade all of these players for one player. Unless you rather lose with Peavy then win overall.

[KingCubsFan]

I have a problem with DeRosa being included. The last thing we need is to get rid of a good player who happened to show up in the playoffs unlike his other teammates. Who do we replace him with? Fontenot IMO isn't good enough. I don't care what DeRosa's age is. The main focus for the Cubs is to win the world series, how are we going to do that with a lesser offense?

 

Derosa is a nice player but he's not nearly good enough to hold up a trade for far better player. He's replacable, and just because you don't care about his age doesn't mean that it's not an issue.

No, that production is not replaceable at 2B. Now if you tell me you are working on a Furcal deal after DeRo gets moved for Peavy, then we'll talk. But let's not make it seem that DeRo is some scrub player that can be easily replaced by a Fontenot or old ass veteran.

Yeah, DeRosa really showed up in the playoffs when he fumbled an easy DP in Game 2 (opening the floodgates) and then went 0-4 in Game 3. Furthermore, why does DeRosa seem to skate by with mistakes while someone like Soriano never does? I can remember a few times during the season he made dumb defensive or baserunning plays, and nothing was mentioned.

[apete6]

I have a problem with DeRosa being included. The last thing we need is to get rid of a good player who happened to show up in the playoffs unlike his other teammates. Who do we replace him with? Fontenot IMO isn't good enough. I don't care what DeRosa's age is. The main focus for the Cubs is to win the world series, how are we going to do that with a lesser offense?

 

Derosa is a nice player but he's not nearly good enough to hold up a trade for far better player. He's replacable, and just because you don't care about his age doesn't mean that it's not an issue.

No, that production is not replaceable at 2B. Now if you tell me you are working on a Furcal deal after DeRo gets moved for Peavy, then we'll talk. But let's not make it seem that DeRo is some scrub player that can be easily replaced by a Fontenot or old ass veteran.

Yeah, DeRosa really showed up in the playoffs when he fumbled an easy DP in Game 2 (opening the floodgates) and then went 0-4 in Game 3. Furthermore, why does DeRosa seem to skate by with mistakes while someone like Soriano never does? I can remember a few times during the season he made dumb defensive or baserunning plays, and nothing was mentioned.

 

Because he doesn't have a franchise changing albatross of a contract.

 

Or because he's white and gritty.

[davearm2]

What contenders have a rotation whose second and third starters are that big of question marks?

 

Umm. All of 'em.

Certainly most, anyway.

 

All of the NL Central for sure.

 

Brett Myers as a #2 is surely a questionmark. As are John Maine and Javier Vazquez.

 

Is Kershaw the Dodgers #2 now behind Billingsley, with Lowe and Penny gone? Huge upside but definitely a questionmark.

 

I'm not talking about question marks, I'm talking about injury and regression. With those teams you're pretty know what you're getting and aren't really counting on those guys to be great. We're counting on that from Harden and Dempster.

 

The bottom line is that if Harden and Dempster get injured and suck, the rotation is not good. That is relevant because there is a pretty good chance both of those things happen.

If Harden and Dempster get injured and suck, then Lilly and Marquis/Marshall/Johnson move up the ladder and instead of being a vastly better rotation, it's a similar rotation.

 

I really don't think you've had a look at what some of these teams have going on right now. There are still FAs yet to sign, but it's not pretty a lot of places.

 

Just to give an example, the Mets now show Santana, Maine, Pelfrey, Niese, Knight. Ugh. The Cubs could lose two guys and still beat that 2-5.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

the 7th and 8th best prospects in the cubs terrible farm system is not going to get hermida. come on. if kevin hart and ronny cedeno are deal breakers, you don't think twice about it. you could replace them both in one second.

 

Who do you replace them with? Hart, Cedeno, Atkins, Guzman, even Pie may not have a ton of value to other teams, but 1) they asked for them for a reason, and 2) the Cubs already weak system has no one to pick up the slack for them in the organization. It's one thing to not care if one of them goes in a deal, it's another to care if they all go, it's how you end up with Les Walrond pitching in meaningful games or Joe Simokaitis getting meaningful at bats.

 

kevin hart and ronny cedeno weren't necessary in meaningful games last year, so i don't think their replacements would be this year.

 

They will when you've traded away Marshall, Marquis, Guzman, Atkins, and DeRosa too, that's the point.

[17 Seconds]

What contenders have a rotation whose second and third starters are that big of question marks?

 

Umm. All of 'em.

 

Okay, so name a contender whose numbers 2 and 3 starters are as likely to get hurt and regress as Harden and Dempster

 

Haha. Yeah, right. I'll get right on that. Any player can get hurt or regress.

 

Uhh yeah, but what players are as likely as Harden and Dempster? It's not jyst a chance, it's a good chance.

 

So you say "all of em" when I ask what teams are that suspect, and then why I ask to give an example you sau "haha, yeah right"

 

Well played.

 

I already gave examples. I said ALL OF THEM.

 

That's not an example, that's a blanket statement because you have no answer.

 

Name one contender who has a number 2 that is as likely to get hurt as Harden and a number 3 who is as likely to add a run and a half onto his ERA as Dempster.

 

Just one

[BigbadB]

Because the 7th and 8th guys might be the guys who could acquire someone like Hermida

 

 

Are you kidding me?

 

Nope. Not at all. Marshall and Pie would be a nice package for Hermida. Maybe even Marshall and Vitters.

 

Maybe it's not enough. If so, look elsewhere.

 

I'm just baffled that anyone would think you just keep throwing more and more names at someone in hopes that it will be enough when it is obviously clear that the other team has zero leverage.

 

How the hell is Vitters the 7th and 8th player in that deal?

I'm baffled by how unrealistic people view the quantity aspect of this deal. They are worthless.

 

Worthless in your eyes, but not necessarily worthless to other teams. If Baltimore would have traded Garrett Olson for Pie, and then Olson was part of the deal for Peavy, that is not worthless. These talks were close to being done without Marquis or DeRosa being added to the discussions. Once DeRosa became part of the equation, someone else should be removed, and more than likely Marshall, if not Pie as well.

[jersey cubs fan]

I have a problem with DeRosa being included. The last thing we need is to get rid of a good player who happened to show up in the playoffs unlike his other teammates. Who do we replace him with? Fontenot IMO isn't good enough. I don't care what DeRosa's age is. The main focus for the Cubs is to win the world series, how are we going to do that with a lesser offense?

 

Derosa is a nice player but he's not nearly good enough to hold up a trade for far better player. He's replacable, and just because you don't care about his age doesn't mean that it's not an issue.

No, that production is not replaceable at 2B. Now if you tell me you are working on a Furcal deal after DeRo gets moved for Peavy, then we'll talk. But let's not make it seem that DeRo is some scrub player that can be easily replaced by a Fontenot or old ass veteran.

Yeah, DeRosa really showed up in the playoffs when he fumbled an easy DP in Game 2 (opening the floodgates) and then went 0-4 in Game 3. Furthermore, why does DeRosa seem to skate by with mistakes while someone like Soriano never does? I can remember a few times during the season he made dumb defensive or baserunning plays, and nothing was mentioned.

 

But he plays every position............

[17 Seconds]

What contenders have a rotation whose second and third starters are that big of question marks?

 

Umm. All of 'em.

Certainly most, anyway.

 

All of the NL Central for sure.

 

Brett Myers as a #2 is surely a questionmark. As are John Maine and Javier Vazquez.

 

Is Kershaw the Dodgers #2 now behind Billingsley, with Lowe and Penny gone? Huge upside but definitely a questionmark.

 

I'm not talking about question marks, I'm talking about injury and regression. With those teams you're pretty know what you're getting and aren't really counting on those guys to be great. We're counting on that from Harden and Dempster.

 

The bottom line is that if Harden and Dempster get injured and suck, the rotation is not good. That is relevant because there is a pretty good chance both of those things happen.

If Harden and Dempster get injured and suck, then Lilly and Marquis/Marshall/Johnson move up the ladder and instead of being a vastly better rotation, it's a similar rotation.

 

I really don't think you've had a look at what some of these teams have going on right now. There are still FAs yet to sign, but it's not pretty a lot of places.

 

Just to give an example, the Mets now show Santana, Maine, Pelfrey, Niese, Knight. Ugh. The Cubs could lose two guys and still beat that 2-5.

 

Yes but the Mets will likely have a better offense and bullpen. Plus the Mets aren't that great. We're trying to be better than everybody else, not comparable.

[anabiono]

I have a problem with DeRosa being included. The last thing we need is to get rid of a good player who happened to show up in the playoffs unlike his other teammates. Who do we replace him with? Fontenot IMO isn't good enough. I don't care what DeRosa's age is. The main focus for the Cubs is to win the world series, how are we going to do that with a lesser offense?

 

Derosa is a nice player but he's not nearly good enough to hold up a trade for far better player. He's replacable, and just because you don't care about his age doesn't mean that it's not an issue.

No, that production is not replaceable at 2B. Now if you tell me you are working on a Furcal deal after DeRo gets moved for Peavy, then we'll talk. But let's not make it seem that DeRo is some scrub player that can be easily replaced by a Fontenot or old ass veteran.

Yeah, DeRosa really showed up in the playoffs when he fumbled an easy DP in Game 2 (opening the floodgates) and then went 0-4 in Game 3. Furthermore, why does DeRosa seem to skate by with mistakes while someone like Soriano never does? I can remember a few times during the season he made dumb defensive or baserunning plays, and nothing was mentioned.

 

really, no one jumped all over soriano...i find that incredibly hard to believe

[YearofDaCubs]

I have a problem with DeRosa being included. The last thing we need is to get rid of a good player who happened to show up in the playoffs unlike his other teammates. Who do we replace him with? Fontenot IMO isn't good enough. I don't care what DeRosa's age is. The main focus for the Cubs is to win the world series, how are we going to do that with a lesser offense?

 

Derosa is a nice player but he's not nearly good enough to hold up a trade for far better player. He's replacable, and just because you don't care about his age doesn't mean that it's not an issue.

No, that production is not replaceable at 2B. Now if you tell me you are working on a Furcal deal after DeRo gets moved for Peavy, then we'll talk. But let's not make it seem that DeRo is some scrub player that can be easily replaced by a Fontenot or old ass veteran.

Yeah, DeRosa really showed up in the playoffs when he fumbled an easy DP in Game 2 (opening the floodgates) and then went 0-4 in Game 3. Furthermore, why does DeRosa seem to skate by with mistakes while someone like Soriano never does? I can remember a few times during the season he made dumb defensive or baserunning plays, and nothing was mentioned.

DeRosa is making a lot less than Soriano. Soriano is king at base running and defensive gaffes. And I'm sure I don't need to show you just how bad Soriano has been in the playoffs for us.