Soriano blames team "make up" for playoff demise

[jersey cubs fan]

I'm not blaming Z for the loss, that was on the offense and defense. But, it was still a bad pitch regardless of circumstance.

 

Yeah, one bad pitch, after a series of very good ones that should have ended the inning. You can't disregard circumstance.

[SouthSideRyan]

I'm not blaming Z for the loss, that was on the offense and defense. But, it was still a bad pitch regardless of circumstance.

 

OK, it was a bad pitch. You can't just disregard circumstance, though.

 

The Dodgers pitchers made bad pitches too. They didn't have a bunch of baserunners on base for theirs because of their defense though.

[Soul]

I'm not blaming Z for the loss, that was on the offense and defense. But, it was still a bad pitch regardless of circumstance.

 

OK, it was a bad pitch. You can't just disregard circumstance, though.

 

The Dodgers pitchers made bad pitches too. They didn't have a bunch of baserunners on base for theirs because of their defense though.

 

yep. 4 infielders. 4 errors. I'm very comfortable with the reason I think we lost game 2. And it wasn't Zambrano.

[YearofDaCubs]

I'm not blaming Z for the loss, that was on the offense and defense. But, it was still a bad pitch regardless of circumstance.

 

OK, it was a bad pitch. You can't just disregard circumstance, though.

 

The Dodgers pitchers made bad pitches too. They didn't have a bunch of baserunners on base for theirs because of their defense though.

 

yep. 4 infielders. 4 errors. I'm very comfortable with the reason I think we lost game 2. And it wasn't Zambrano.

I also think Theriot not using the glove should have been an error too. He should have made that.

[GhostRunner]

Just for sake of argument, everyone should remember that only 2 of the 4 errors committed in Game 2 actually happened during the 5-run second inning. The Ramirez bobble and Theriot's wild throw were in the 4th and 9th respectively, after the Dodgers already had a 5+ run lead. I know most folks here fully realize this, but sometimes it seems like people are arguing like all 4 errors were in 2nd inning when they weren't.

 

As for Soriano's comments, it does seem like a cop-out. A team built to win a short series seems like it would fail over the course of a full season. A team that's above-average over a large sample size should also be expected to perform in an above-average manner over a 5-game series. Chaos happens.

 

For once, I wish the TV would cut to the locker room after a performance like this and show a player or two wailing on a locker with a bat, or just flipping out and showing some actual anger over their performance. Throw out some f-bombs, kick over the towel cart, and just tell the world that, "We sucked. We just flat-out sucked, and I'm sorry. You fans deserved better."

 

That's why I respect Wood 10x more than Soriano for his 2003 Game 7 post-game interview when he simply manned-up and told the world that he "choked." Taking responsibility is showing character, making stupid excuses is disingenuous.

[Guest]

Just for sake of argument, everyone should remember that only 2 of the 4 errors committed in Game 2 actually happened during the 5-run second inning. The Ramirez bobble and Theriot's wild throw were in the 4th and 9th respectively, after the Dodgers already had a 5+ run lead. I know most folks here fully realize this, but sometimes it seems like people are arguing like all 4 errors were in 2nd inning when they weren't.

 

That said, Theriot's miscue on the hit-and-run groundball should have been an error (base runner doesn't advance to third base if it isn't an error).

[SouthSideRyan]

Just for sake of argument, everyone should remember that only 2 of the 4 errors committed in Game 2 actually happened during the 5-run second inning. The Ramirez bobble and Theriot's wild throw were in the 4th and 9th respectively, after the Dodgers already had a 5+ run lead. I know most folks here fully realize this, but sometimes it seems like people are arguing like all 4 errors were in 2nd inning when they weren't.

 

That said, Theriot's miscue on the hit-and-run groundball should have been an error (base runner doesn't advance to third base if it isn't an error).

 

Batter doesn't get to first if he fields it with his damn glove.

[Guest]

Just for sake of argument, everyone should remember that only 2 of the 4 errors committed in Game 2 actually happened during the 5-run second inning. The Ramirez bobble and Theriot's wild throw were in the 4th and 9th respectively, after the Dodgers already had a 5+ run lead. I know most folks here fully realize this, but sometimes it seems like people are arguing like all 4 errors were in 2nd inning when they weren't.

 

That said, Theriot's miscue on the hit-and-run groundball should have been an error (base runner doesn't advance to third base if it isn't an error).

 

Batter doesn't get to first if he fields it with his damn glove.

 

Gritty guys don't need gloves.

 

But seriously, I figured they assumed he wouldn't get the runner at first (safe assumption considering his arm).

[haubrich91]

Soriano seriously needs to shut up. I'm sick of his crap. What I don't get is he gets payed all of this money, but plays like garbage and doesn't look like he cares. If I were him, I'd be embarrassed on how I looked the past two Octobers.

 

He better be down in the order next year. If he can't produce from the lead-off spot, he doesn't deserve to be there. He isn't the manager, so he needs to shut his damn mouth and play.

[imb]

it appears that he's correct about the construction of the team being part of the problem, so i dont see what the problem is, other than it being a rich black man speaking to a bunch of poor white people

[SouthSideRyan]

It's like people can't make a post about Soriano without useless information about his salary or useless information about him batting leadoff. Dave Kaplan give you these talking points?

[SaorsaDaonnan]

I'm not blaming Z for the loss, that was on the offense and defense. But, it was still a bad pitch regardless of circumstance.

 

Yeah, one bad pitch, after a series of very good ones that should have ended the inning. You can't disregard circumstance.

 

 

this is a stupid debate. Zambrano's pitch was a bad one. every pitcher is always responsible for every bad pitch he makes, so long as he is

physically sound (ie healthy enough to pitch and not pitching past obvious mechanical breakdown). no fact about the external circumstances in

which he is pitching qualifies as an excuse.

 

so, that particular pitch was a failure by Zambrano. but the NET performance by Zambrano was nevertheless NOT a failure, because the expected

runs allowed by his performance was still a figure low enough to win. (it's irrelevant what the actual # of runs scored was)

[UK1679666180]

I'm not blaming Z for the loss, that was on the offense and defense. But, it was still a bad pitch regardless of circumstance.

 

Yeah, one bad pitch, after a series of very good ones that should have ended the inning. You can't disregard circumstance.

 

 

this is a stupid debate. Zambrano's pitch was a bad one. every pitcher is always responsible for every bad pitch he makes, so long as he is

physically sound (ie healthy enough to pitch and not pitching past obvious mechanical breakdown). no fact about the external circumstances in

which he is pitching qualifies as an excuse.

 

so, that particular pitch was a failure by Zambrano. but the NET performance by Zambrano was nevertheless NOT a failure, because the expected

runs allowed by his performance was still a figure low enough to win. (it's irrelevant what the actual # of runs scored was)

 

Agreed.

[sneakypower]

Soriano seriously needs to shut up. I'm sick of his crap. What I don't get is he gets payed all of this money, but plays like garbage and doesn't look like he cares. If I were him, I'd be embarrassed on how I looked the past two Octobers.

 

He better be down in the order next year. If he can't produce from the lead-off spot, he doesn't deserve to be there. He isn't the manager, so he needs to shut his damn mouth and play.

if 56 XBHs in 109 games is garbage then i'd quite like an entire roster full of garbage

[Guest]

Offensively, they're built for beating up on bad to medicore pitching staffs.

 

This is nonsense. Every team beats up on bad pitching. The Cubs actually did a very nice job of making good pitchers work and had exactly the kind of offense to beat these pitchers featuring a deep and patient lineup. You keep pretending there are hitters out there who hit 95 mph fastballs on the black of the outside corner to right field. Guess what? They aren't out there. That's why these pitchers are successful.

[UK1679666180]

Offensively, they're built for beating up on bad to medicore pitching staffs.

 

This is nonsense. Every team beats up on bad pitching. The Cubs actually did a very nice job of making good pitchers work and had exactly the kind of offense to beat these pitchers featuring a deep and patient lineup. You keep pretending there are hitters out there who hit 95 mph fastballs on the black of the outside corner to right field. Guess what? They aren't out there. That's why these pitchers are successful.

 

There are, even the Cubs have a few. Derosa, Theriot, and Soto. But when the core of the offense falls into the habit of tryiong to pull everything and not go to RF, you can see when they struggle and why they are struggling.

[haubrich91]

Soriano seriously needs to shut up. I'm sick of his crap. What I don't get is he gets payed all of this money, but plays like garbage and doesn't look like he cares. If I were him, I'd be embarrassed on how I looked the past two Octobers.

 

He better be down in the order next year. If he can't produce from the lead-off spot, he doesn't deserve to be there. He isn't the manager, so he needs to shut his damn mouth and play.

if 56 XBHs in 109 games is garbage then i'd quite like an entire roster full of garbage

 

I mean the little things. Like not being lazy, swing at a strike, that kind of stuff.

[Sammy Sofa]

Those damn little things.

 

Little.

 

Tiny.

 

Like sand.

 

Gritty sand.

 

So gritty.

 

So, so gritty.

[sneakypower]

Soriano seriously needs to shut up. I'm sick of his crap. What I don't get is he gets payed all of this money, but plays like garbage and doesn't look like he cares. If I were him, I'd be embarrassed on how I looked the past two Octobers.

 

He better be down in the order next year. If he can't produce from the lead-off spot, he doesn't deserve to be there. He isn't the manager, so he needs to shut his damn mouth and play.

if 56 XBHs in 109 games is garbage then i'd quite like an entire roster full of garbage

 

I mean the little things. Like not being lazy, swing at a strike, that kind of stuff.

welllll i wonder what gives you the impression he is lazy?

[abuck1220]

Soriano seriously needs to shut up. I'm sick of his crap. What I don't get is he gets payed all of this money, but plays like garbage and doesn't look like he cares. If I were him, I'd be embarrassed on how I looked the past two Octobers.

 

He better be down in the order next year. If he can't produce from the lead-off spot, he doesn't deserve to be there. He isn't the manager, so he needs to shut his damn mouth and play.

if 56 XBHs in 109 games is garbage then i'd quite like an entire roster full of garbage

 

I mean the little things. Like not being lazy, swing at a strike, that kind of stuff.

 

so the little things are more important than the big things? so confused...

[Brett]

it appears that he's correct about the construction of the team being part of the problem, so i dont see what the problem is, other than it being a rich black man speaking to a bunch of poor white people

 

He's definitely right that the construction of the team is part of the post-season problem.

 

Namely, the fact that the team is constructed with him on it.

[Sammy Sofa]

it appears that he's correct about the construction of the team being part of the problem, so i dont see what the problem is, other than it being a rich black man speaking to a bunch of poor white people

 

He's definitely right that the construction of the team is part of the post-season problem.

 

Namely, the fact that the team is constructed with him on it.

 

I assume you have the same complaint about Aramis.

[wvcbxl]

I would just like to point out that when Soriano uses the term "we", it obviously includes himself.

So I read that statement as him accepting his part of the blame.

[cubsfan1947]

it appears that he's correct about the construction of the team being part of the problem, so i dont see what the problem is, other than it being a rich black man speaking to a bunch of poor white people

 

1) I thought he was speaking to the fans.

 

2) I am a rich white guy; does that give me the right to criticize Soriano?

[Tarver]

it appears that he's correct about the construction of the team being part of the problem, so i dont see what the problem is, other than it being a rich black man speaking to a bunch of poor white people

 

1) I thought he was speaking to the fans.

 

2) I am a rich white guy; does that give me the right to criticize Soriano?

 

You're the 1,947th Cub fan? I find that hard to believe.