When should Cubs think about docking D-Lee's playing time?

[Wilson A2000]

I wouldn't really cut his time. As long as the Cubs are maintaining their lead in the division, they have a better chance of winning the World Series with a productive Lee than anyone else. The Cubs and Lee just need to see what they can do to increase his production, and that would be seeing more pitches with some rest time. Rest him once a week from here on out, at least until the division is wrapped up.

[anabiono]

end the end i think lee will put up better numbers than last season

 

can't wrong with that

[bhogg]

I'd love to see what Ramirez could do in the 3 spot.

 

Im equally intrigued to see what Edmonds could do at cleanup.

 

 

 

I agree. Father Time's .976 OPS since joining the club is screaming to be moved up.

[UMFan83]

end the end i think lee will put up better numbers than last season

 

can't wrong with that

 

Unless you are talking about counting stats like HR and RBI, I highly doubt it.

 

Lee 07: .317/.400/.513/.913

Lee 08: .289/.353/.467/.820

 

Not sure where to look up vorp or eqa but I'd venture a guess that those are significantly higher in 07 as well.

 

Either way, it would take a historic month of September to get him up to his 07 numbers.

[Moises a loo]

This is arguably the best Cubs offense most of us have ever seen in our lifetimes. They're FINALLY doing everything this board has been screaming for for years. By all means, let's get greedy and dick with it.

[Derwood]

If Lee didn't GIDP so much, I wouldn't mind a lineup of:

 

Soriano

Lee

Ramirez

Edmonds

Soto

DeRosa

Fukudome

Theriot

Pitcher

[David]

I dont know about docking play time, but he certainly shouldnt be a #3 hitter. If only Soriano could do what he does from the 1 spot at the 3 spot, all would be good, and Derrek could be a number 2, 5, or 6. I know some posters here seem to think that where a batter bats in the lineup doesnt matter, but unless they know somethign that pretty much every manager in history of the game doesnt, it means something.

 

 

lol yea, it's terrible right now

 

 

btw, that second bolded part is a terrible argument and it's one of the reasons why people have continued to do stupid things throughout history.

 

So your saying it's just a big coincedence that every manager in the modern era of the game has batted their best hitters 3-5?

 

And nothings terrible right now, Im just saying the rather than take D-Lee and his great defense but mediocre but not horrible offense should not be taken out of the lineup, just moved down, unless its a Sammy thing where the manager is scared to take him out of his comfort zone, and I cant see Lou worrying about that.

 

 

A coincidence?

 

No.

 

The result of flawed logic?

 

Perhaps.

[Jon]

I took note of these numbers last week, so I'll include them:

 

May 1 through August 10

 

Team - .278/.350/.444/.794

 

Soriano - .329/.371/.641/1.012

Edmonds - .273/.374/.597/.971 (with the Cubs)

Johnson - .302/.356/.500/.856

Ramirez - .275/.368/.473/.841

Soto - .266/.337/.451/.788

DeRosa - .269/.353/.441/.794

Lee - .269/.331/.412/.743

Theriot - .311/.388/.353/.741

Fukudome - .251/.347/.373/.720

 

 

May 1 through August 15

 

Team - .280/.353/.447/.800

 

Soriano - .319/.363/.622/.985

Edmonds - .270/.376/.600/.976

Johnson - .306/.356/.497/.853

Ramirez - .285/.377/.492/.869

Soto - .273/.347/.468/.815

DeRosa - .278/.369/.458/.827

Lee - .267/.328/.406/.734

Theriot - .317/.396/.357/.753

Fukudome - .252/.348/.369/.717

 

 

Since May 1st, it hasn't just been Lee. Before the offensive explosion of the last week, Soto had a disappointing .337 OBP. Fukudome provided no power. Heck, Ramirez was underperforming, as well.

 

Lee's LD% and BABIP have seemingly peaked pretty recently while his GB% has bottomed, though his FB% has consistently remained too low. He was hitting far fewer groundballs and replacing those with line drives. His walk rate was up, but now it's dropping back down again. That good period didn't seem to help his overall numbers a whole lot, however.

 

I'd give him a day of rest a little more often, but I certainly wouldn't take him out of the lineup. They need him and it's not like the Cubs are in a particularly close race for a playoff spot.

[sneakypower]

and all this time people were waiting for Theriot to crash hard

 

Fuku and Lee are playing that role

[badnews]

My guess is when they should. Which would be when they have someone better to take his playing time. And that won't be any time soon. Talking about getting Hoffpauir playing time is a ridiculous joke.

 

Konerko has lost playing time because the Sox have better options. You are kidding yourself if you think Hoffpauir, Ward, or Fontenot (with Edmonds at 1B, Fukudome in CF, Derosa in RF) are even close to the same league as Derrek Lee.

 

Wow, that's way too harsh a response, I think. You know what's a ridiculous joke? The fact that we can talk about Placido Polanco and Willie Harris outslugging Derrek Lee in such a long time period.

 

What is this stuff about "even close to the same league" as Derrek Lee? Since May he's basically been a .750 OPS hitter. There's nobody out there who has a chance at reaching this lofty benchmark?

 

You've gone out too far on a limb and I don't think you've really bothered to look at what Derrek Lee has become. I don't think the idea that Hoffpauir can do better than a .750 OPS playing against righties is any sort of madness whatsoever.

[Rob]

My guess is when they should. Which would be when they have someone better to take his playing time. And that won't be any time soon. Talking about getting Hoffpauir playing time is a ridiculous joke.

 

Konerko has lost playing time because the Sox have better options. You are kidding yourself if you think Hoffpauir, Ward, or Fontenot (with Edmonds at 1B, Fukudome in CF, Derosa in RF) are even close to the same league as Derrek Lee.

 

Wow, that's way too harsh a response, I think. You know what's a ridiculous joke? The fact that we can talk about Placido Polanco and Willie Harris outslugging Derrek Lee in such a long time period.

 

What is this stuff about "even close to the same league" as Derrek Lee? Since May he's basically been a .750 OPS hitter. There's nobody out there who has a chance at reaching this lofty benchmark?

 

You've gone out too far on a limb and I don't think you've really bothered to look at what Derrek Lee has become. I don't think the idea that Hoffpauir can do better than a .750 OPS playing against righties is any sort of madness whatsoever.

 

"what Derrek Lee has become"?

 

Since when is this his ceiling?

 

He's had a bad stretch. He's still better than any of our other options, including Micah Hoffpauir. Give him as many AB's as he needs to get back on track. It's not like we're in any imminent danger of missing the playoffs.

[badnews]

When Willie Harris is slugging the crap out of Derrek Lee, then yes, I think it's more than "just a bad stretch." I mean, when did you guys decide Andruw Jones wasn't just going "through a bad stretch" and that he just wasn't the guy he used to be? We're talking about how bad he's been since the beginning of May. We're talking about a .750 OPS. And I just don't understand all this mock horror: "No way can Hoffpauir do better than Lee's great .750 OPS!"

 

Just like there was no way Dempster could be this good, or Theriot, or Fontenot, or Edmonds, etc. etc.

 

The White Sox had a decent lead on the Twins when they cut Konerko's playing time. I like that. The fact that they don't just blindly give out playing time even though Konerko has long been a producer for them. What about this is hard to understand? Since May, Konerko and Lee have about the same OPS.

 

You know what? I'm not even as strongly in favor of this idea as you think. What I am strongly against is dismissing the idea out of hand because "There's no way Hoffpauir can do as well as Lee." How the hell does anyone know that? Lee's got 2 home runs since June 21st. That's terrible. But how do people know Hoffpauir can't do better than 2 home runs in 194 ABs? The answer: they don't know.

 

Since May 1, Derrek Lee has a .734 OPS I know it's heresy to think that there's a possibility that Hoffpauir could do better than that.

[imb]

At best what could we expect out of Hoff? He hits well and posts an .800 OPS? Is that extra .050 of OPS worth benching Lee, who, for all his faults, could just as easily put up an .800+ from this point on as he could a .730? I don't think so.

[rynefan]

Lee knows this, too. Even he said when asked about not making the All Star team... that he wasn't doing good enough.

[dew1679666265]

When Willie Harris is slugging the crap out of Derrek Lee, then yes, I think it's more than "just a bad stretch." I mean, when did you guys decide Andruw Jones wasn't just going "through a bad stretch" and that he just wasn't the guy he used to be? We're talking about how bad he's been since the beginning of May. We're talking about a .750 OPS. And I just don't understand all this mock horror: "No way can Hoffpauir do better than Lee's great .750 OPS!"

 

Just like there was no way Dempster could be this good, or Theriot, or Fontenot, or Edmonds, etc. etc.

 

The White Sox had a decent lead on the Twins when they cut Konerko's playing time. I like that. The fact that they don't just blindly give out playing time even though Konerko has long been a producer for them. What about this is hard to understand? Since May, Konerko and Lee have about the same OPS.

 

You know what? I'm not even as strongly in favor of this idea as you think. What I am strongly against is dismissing the idea out of hand because "There's no way Hoffpauir can do as well as Lee." How the hell does anyone know that? Lee's got 2 home runs since June 21st. That's terrible. But how do people know Hoffpauir can't do better than 2 home runs in 194 ABs? The answer: they don't know.

 

Since May 1, Derrek Lee has a .734 OPS I know it's heresy to think that there's a possibility that Hoffpauir could do better than that.

 

The point I think you're missing is that a .734 OPS is likely not DLee's ceiling, even at this point. It's what he's produced to this point, but he's still very capable of posting an .850 or so OPS the rest of the season - which is likely more than what Hoff would do.

 

Granted, there's a chance that he could continue OPSing .730 the rest of the year, but with a hitter with his history, I'll take my chances that with a bit more rest here and there he'll work his way out of it.

[Brett]

Lee has never been the same since the drunk base-runner crashed into him and broke his wrist.

[RedFlash]

I like to see Gerald Perry and Lee tinker with Lee's batting stance. They need to find a way to get Lee to extend his arms.

[soapy]

When Willie Harris is slugging the crap out of Derrek Lee, then yes, I think it's more than "just a bad stretch." I mean, when did you guys decide Andruw Jones wasn't just going "through a bad stretch" and that he just wasn't the guy he used to be? We're talking about how bad he's been since the beginning of May. We're talking about a .750 OPS. And I just don't understand all this mock horror: "No way can Hoffpauir do better than Lee's great .750 OPS!"

 

Just like there was no way Dempster could be this good, or Theriot, or Fontenot, or Edmonds, etc. etc.

 

The White Sox had a decent lead on the Twins when they cut Konerko's playing time. I like that. The fact that they don't just blindly give out playing time even though Konerko has long been a producer for them. What about this is hard to understand? Since May, Konerko and Lee have about the same OPS.

 

You know what? I'm not even as strongly in favor of this idea as you think. What I am strongly against is dismissing the idea out of hand because "There's no way Hoffpauir can do as well as Lee." How the hell does anyone know that? Lee's got 2 home runs since June 21st. That's terrible. But how do people know Hoffpauir can't do better than 2 home runs in 194 ABs? The answer: they don't know.

 

Since May 1, Derrek Lee has a .734 OPS I know it's heresy to think that there's a possibility that Hoffpauir could do better than that.

the point is (people are saying) that Lee isn't likely to maintain a .734 OPS.

 

also, people are expecting way too much from Hoffpauir. i understand giving Lee more rest (inserting Hoffpauir) and moving him out of the 3-spot, but i do think it's silly to be considering replacing Lee with Hoffpauir on a (semi) regular basis.

[Jehrico]

When Willie Harris is slugging the crap out of Derrek Lee, then yes, I think it's more than "just a bad stretch." I mean, when did you guys decide Andruw Jones wasn't just going "through a bad stretch" and that he just wasn't the guy he used to be? We're talking about how bad he's been since the beginning of May. We're talking about a .750 OPS. And I just don't understand all this mock horror: "No way can Hoffpauir do better than Lee's great .750 OPS!"

 

Just like there was no way Dempster could be this good, or Theriot, or Fontenot, or Edmonds, etc. etc.

 

The White Sox had a decent lead on the Twins when they cut Konerko's playing time. I like that. The fact that they don't just blindly give out playing time even though Konerko has long been a producer for them. What about this is hard to understand? Since May, Konerko and Lee have about the same OPS.

 

You know what? I'm not even as strongly in favor of this idea as you think. What I am strongly against is dismissing the idea out of hand because "There's no way Hoffpauir can do as well as Lee." How the hell does anyone know that? Lee's got 2 home runs since June 21st. That's terrible. But how do people know Hoffpauir can't do better than 2 home runs in 194 ABs? The answer: they don't know.

 

Since May 1, Derrek Lee has a .734 OPS I know it's heresy to think that there's a possibility that Hoffpauir could do better than that.

the point is (people are saying) that Lee isn't likely to maintain a .734 OPS.

 

also, people are expecting way too much from Hoffpauir. i understand giving Lee more rest (inserting Hoffpauir) and moving him out of the 3-spot, but i do think it's silly to be considering replacing Lee with Hoffpauir on a (semi) regular basis.

Agreed, except right now I am expecting Lee to maintain that .734 clip. He's not hitting to the other field regularly, and he still seems to be slapping the ball than trying to drive the ball. He doesn't look like he's seeing the ball as well this year as he normally does, and he's shortening up to compensate. If my observations are correct, that would also explain the high propensity for hitting into double plays. Right now, he is not giving me any reason to expect anything different over the course of the remainder of the season.

[Peoriaman]

I am all for giving him some rest, but he needs to be our regular first baseman.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

end the end i think lee will put up better numbers than last season

 

can't wrong with that

 

Unless you are talking about counting stats like HR and RBI, I highly doubt it.

 

Lee 07: .317/.400/.513/.913

Lee 08: .289/.353/.467/.820

 

Not sure where to look up vorp or eqa but I'd venture a guess that those are significantly higher in 07 as well.

 

Either way, it would take a historic month of September to get him up to his 07 numbers.

2007 EqA: 298

2008 EqA: 278

 

2007 VORP: 48.6

2008 VORP: 25.1

[jersey cubs fan]

I'm all for resting him once a week and getting Hoff or somebody else some more playing time. I think a rested Lee + part-time platoon help vs RHP is likely to outperform Lee all by himself. But this is the best offense in the league, and it's greatest strength is the lack of any true weak spot. Lee isn't a legit 3 hitter, but he doesn't need to be for this team to succeed. I think there's very little to gain by moving him and quite possibly even more to lose by upsetting the apple cart.

[cubscausestress]

really, who gives a pooh. lee is fully capable and has proven so in the past. also, anyone know what our record is right now? you should, a lot of you weren't even born the last time the cubs had this kind of record. stick with lee. the last thing you need is a debbie downer in the clubhouse this time of year.

[jersey cubs fan]

really, who gives a pooh. lee is fully capable and has proven so in the past. also, anyone know what our record is right now? you should, a lot of you weren't even born the last time the cubs had this kind of record. stick with lee. the last thing you need is a debbie downer in the clubhouse this time of year.

 

I don't think this is the right way to think about the issue. Calling him full capable doesn't mean much. What he was capable of at times in the past and what he is likely to do now are entirely different things. He showed he was capable of one great season, 2005, and was probably capable of 2-3 without breaking the wrist. But his past is littered with unimpressive seasons as well, much like this year. The team is great right now and we shouldn't be looking to replace Lee, but there's nothing wrong with looking for ways to get more out of 1B, by resting Lee and hoping that could help him hit better as he ages.

[Tarver]

really, who gives a pooh. lee is fully capable and has proven so in the past. also, anyone know what our record is right now? you should, a lot of you weren't even born the last time the cubs had this kind of record. stick with lee. the last thing you need is a debbie downer in the clubhouse this time of year.

 

What a brilliant argument. Everyone knows baseball players are impervious to the effects of age.