The Jeff Samardzija Thread

[Guest]

Is the Shark maybe more suited for a bullpen role? Maybe he's more valuable as a guy who can go all out for 1-2 innings vs. pacing himself for 6+ innings? His fastball looked insane today.

 

ie Carlos Marmol pt.2

 

Carlos Marmol's pitches still looked good as a starter though. From what I've heard, Shark's pitches seemed less than impressive in the minors, though admittedly I've never seen him pitch before a couple days ago.

 

Not his last few starts at AA and in AAA.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Is the Shark maybe more suited for a bullpen role? Maybe he's more valuable as a guy who can go all out for 1-2 innings vs. pacing himself for 6+ innings? His fastball looked insane today.

 

ie Carlos Marmol pt.2

 

Carlos Marmol's pitches still looked good as a starter though. From what I've heard, Shark's pitches seemed less than impressive in the minors, though admittedly I've never seen him pitch before a couple days ago.

 

 

As I stated before, he looks a lot better now than what I saw a couple of months ago.

[rocket]

Is the Shark maybe more suited for a bullpen role? Maybe he's more valuable as a guy who can go all out for 1-2 innings vs. pacing himself for 6+ innings? His fastball looked insane today.

 

ie Carlos Marmol pt.2

 

Carlos Marmol's pitches still looked good as a starter though. From what I've heard, Shark's pitches seemed less than impressive in the minors, though admittedly I've never seen him pitch before a couple days ago.

 

Not his last few starts at AA and in AAA.

 

you're probably right. i'm just excited at the possibility of howry never pitching in a close and late game again, i suppose.

[hawkeyecub]

I'd be worried about lack of secondary stuff as a starter than his drop in velo of his FB. The one FB he threw at 92 in his 1st outing had great movement on it, more movement than any of his other FBs so far. I don't really like his slider and his splitter has a bit to go before it becomes successful enough as an out pitch to where you can see him being effective 3 times thru an order.

 

That's logical.

 

In my opinion this is the one ideal situation for having a starter in the bullpen. Hopefully he remains successful in the pen for the rest of the year and then work on those secondary pitches in the offseason/spring training in hopes of moving him back to a starter. Considering the amount of time he's had full-time in baseball and the progression he has shown I think it's reasonable to expect that he can develop those secondary pitches in time. Meanwhile he can be a very nice addition to the bullpen.

[Billy_Buck]

Man, for a guy who cautioned about getting "giggly" earlier in the season, Lou sounded like a kid with a new puppy in his postgame.

 

Hope this keeps up and he can be a second option for Lou in the pen. It would be a relief not to have to rely on Marmol with every 7-1 lead.

[AndyM23]

His history (given that it's been brief) has been to pitch exceedingly well when first promoted. He finishes out the half season, pitching well. The following season, he gets hit hard and is inexplicably promoted. Where he starts the cycle over again, looking great.

 

So if he helps us out the rest of this season, that will be great. Maybe the solution is to keep him in pen. I just wouldn't annoint him just yet. I'm just hoping for a great couple months.

[mdwilla]

Everyone wants to look at Jeff as a more finshed project out of college but he's not it's amazing how fast he has shot through the minors considering how little he had thrown before being drafted. Getting Jeff up in late july and pitching him out of the pen limits his Innings this year also.

[Outshined_One]

I'm excited about Samardzija and I think he can contribute to the Cubs this season as a middle reliever who can take some pressure off of Wood/Marmol.

 

However, while I get the feeling he will do a good job as a reliever, I think the Cubs should definitely plan to use him as a starter down the line. He's still developing and his stuff needs some work, but I think he could make a very solid contribution to the rotation if he continues to develop as he has been.

[NCCubFan]

It will be interesting to see what happens when Wood returns. I think the assumption at first was that Shark would be going back to Iowa, but I don't think that's the case now. Cotts may be on the chopping block unless the Cubs are ready to cut ties with Howry. I don't see Marshall going back down because he seems to be piggybacking with Harden.

[CubinNY]

It will be interesting to see what happens when Wood returns. I think the assumption at first was that Shark would be going back to Iowa, but I don't think that's the case now. Cotts may be on the chopping block unless the Cubs are ready to cut ties with Howry. I don't see Marshall going back down because he seems to be piggybacking with Harden.

I don't think the Cubs are ready to part company with Howry, unfortunately. Lou keeps trotting him out at the most important times (when Marmol can't go). I think Shark has made a good impression on Lou and first impression for Lou seem to count a lot. I think Shark pushes everyone except for Marmol and Wood into the, "when did he last pitch?" category. That seems to be Lou's M.O.

 

My guess is that Lieber has thrown his last pitch for the Cubs.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

It will be interesting to see what happens when Wood returns. I think the assumption at first was that Shark would be going back to Iowa, but I don't think that's the case now. Cotts may be on the chopping block unless the Cubs are ready to cut ties with Howry. I don't see Marshall going back down because he seems to be piggybacking with Harden.

I don't think they'll stick with 3 lefties in the pen. one of Marshall/Cotts would be my guess to go, and I don't see them sending Marshall back down

[AlwaysaCub]

Joba Chamberlain last year seems similar to what Samardjiza could do this year.

[rawaction]

It's no coincedence that Samardzija starting pitching better when I called him out in the minors forum for being horrible!

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Samardzija doesn't really have a clear path to the rotation. Zambrano, Harden, Lilly, Marquis, Dempster, Hill, Marshall, and Gaudin are all possibilities for next year's rotation. In that sense, treating him like Chamberlain and letting him be a fireman until the opportunity presents itself isn't really that bad.

 

On the other hand, Samardzija is very raw, especially as a starter. There's going to be a marked difference in what Samardzija looks like as a starter in 2009 if he stays a starter now or if he stays in the MLB pen.

 

Given the big league club's predicament right now, I'd let him continue to pitch in relief as long as he's effective and used in an important role. If he's going to get shelled, or only pitch in the 6th or 7th innings of a ballgame, let him start in Iowa. If he's going to be used like he was today, then keep him around and let him start 2009 ST as a starter trying to earn a rotation spot.

[TruffleShuffle]

Samardzija doesn't really have a clear path to the rotation. Zambrano, Harden, Lilly, Marquis, Dempster, Hill, Marshall, and Gaudin are all possibilities for next year's rotation. In that sense, treating him like Chamberlain and letting him be a fireman until the opportunity presents itself isn't really that bad.

 

On the other hand, Samardzija is very raw, especially as a starter. There's going to be a marked difference in what Samardzija looks like as a starter in 2009 if he stays a starter now or if he stays in the MLB pen.

 

Given the big league club's predicament right now, I'd let him continue to pitch in relief as long as he's effective and used in an important role. If he's going to get shelled, or only pitch in the 6th or 7th innings of a ballgame, let him start in Iowa. If he's going to be used like he was today, then keep him around and let him start 2009 ST as a starter trying to earn a rotation spot.

 

i think this plan is a good one, though i'd pitch him wherever - not just the 8th or 9th or any given inning. right now, i don't know that he has enough of an arsenal with his secondary pitches to keep fooling hitters multiple times through a lineup. the problem will be if he pitches really well in relief the rest of this season, the cubs may just keep him there next year and never really give him a chance to start again.

[Rob]

Samardzija doesn't really have a clear path to the rotation. Zambrano, Harden, Lilly, Marquis, Dempster, Hill, Marshall, and Gaudin are all possibilities for next year's rotation. In that sense, treating him like Chamberlain and letting him be a fireman until the opportunity presents itself isn't really that bad.

 

On the other hand, Samardzija is very raw, especially as a starter. There's going to be a marked difference in what Samardzija looks like as a starter in 2009 if he stays a starter now or if he stays in the MLB pen.

 

Given the big league club's predicament right now, I'd let him continue to pitch in relief as long as he's effective and used in an important role. If he's going to get shelled, or only pitch in the 6th or 7th innings of a ballgame, let him start in Iowa. If he's going to be used like he was today, then keep him around and let him start 2009 ST as a starter trying to earn a rotation spot.

 

Mind you, this is Dempster's walk year, and Lou really wants to get rid of Marquis... which helps clear out the rotation somewhat.

[Jon]

The best way for Samardzija to continue to develop as a pitcher is by getting innings in as a starter. I think it would be a mistake for him to start anywhere other than the Iowa rotation next season.

 

I wonder if part of the reason that the Cubs called him up when they did is that they wanted to limit his innings before he works with the big league club in September. If he had started the rest of July and August, he likely would have exceeded his IP total from last season before September rolled around. The problem is that they did this just as he was starting to have success. Counting on effectiveness out of the bullpen for two months with the big league club was a bit of a risk when the payoff would probably have been a clearer sense of Samardzija's ability and ceiling by doubling his start total at Iowa, not to mention much needed work on his secondary pitches and learning how and when to use them.

[NCCubFan]

It will be interesting to see what happens when Wood returns. I think the assumption at first was that Shark would be going back to Iowa, but I don't think that's the case now. Cotts may be on the chopping block unless the Cubs are ready to cut ties with Howry. I don't see Marshall going back down because he seems to be piggybacking with Harden.

I don't think the Cubs are ready to part company with Howry, unfortunately. Lou keeps trotting him out at the most important times (when Marmol can't go). I think Shark has made a good impression on Lou and first impression for Lou seem to count a lot. I think Shark pushes everyone except for Marmol and Wood into the, "when did he last pitch?" category. That seems to be Lou's M.O.

 

My guess is that Lieber has thrown his last pitch for the Cubs.

Lieber's already on the DL, though, so that wouldn't have anything to with the move made when Wood returns. I think we're both basically saying the same thing, that Howry probably SHOULD go but Cotts probably WILL go. Another factor is that Cotts is still in an option year, meaning he could be sent back down again, whereas Howry would have to be DFA'd.

[Amie]

It will be interesting to see what happens when Wood returns. I think the assumption at first was that Shark would be going back to Iowa, but I don't think that's the case now. Cotts may be on the chopping block unless the Cubs are ready to cut ties with Howry. I don't see Marshall going back down because he seems to be piggybacking with Harden.

I don't think the Cubs are ready to part company with Howry, unfortunately. Lou keeps trotting him out at the most important times (when Marmol can't go). I think Shark has made a good impression on Lou and first impression for Lou seem to count a lot. I think Shark pushes everyone except for Marmol and Wood into the, "when did he last pitch?" category. That seems to be Lou's M.O.

 

My guess is that Lieber has thrown his last pitch for the Cubs.

Lieber's already on the DL, though, so that wouldn't have anything to with the move made when Wood returns. I think we're both basically saying the same thing, that Howry probably SHOULD go but Cotts probably WILL go. Another factor is that Cotts is still in an option year, meaning he could be sent back down again, whereas Howry would have to be DFA'd.

 

I think you'll find either a release or trade of Scott Eyre or Jon Lieber. My guess is Scotty.

How many times did he get up and down today, yet never do into pitch?? This has happened several days in a row. The silence is telling.

 

 

Shark has added the splitfinger, and that is why he is not finding more success then ever before. It's a good out pitch. Especially for a guy in the late innings. Right now they are worrying about this year, and you can't fault Lou for that.

[NCCubFan]

I think you'll find either a release or trade of Scott Eyre or Jon Lieber. My guess is Scotty.

How many times did he get up and down today, yet never do into pitch?? This has happened several days in a row. The silence is telling.

If you're talking about the move made when Wood returns it would have to be Eyre. Lieber is already on the DL, so releasing him now wouldn't free up a roster spot for Wood. Releasing Eyre would make room for Wood.

[Rob]

I think you'll find either a release or trade of Scott Eyre or Jon Lieber. My guess is Scotty.

How many times did he get up and down today, yet never do into pitch?? This has happened several days in a row. The silence is telling.

If you're talking about the move made when Wood returns it would have to be Eyre. Lieber is already on the DL, so releasing him now wouldn't free up a roster spot for Wood. Releasing Eyre would make room for Wood.

 

Given the market for LHP right now, I'd have to assume we'd trade Eyre rather than release him... somebody would certainly want him.

 

I still think Cotts gets sent down.

[snoodmonger]

I think you'll find either a release or trade of Scott Eyre or Jon Lieber. My guess is Scotty.

How many times did he get up and down today, yet never do into pitch?? This has happened several days in a row. The silence is telling.

If you're talking about the move made when Wood returns it would have to be Eyre. Lieber is already on the DL, so releasing him now wouldn't free up a roster spot for Wood. Releasing Eyre would make room for Wood.

 

Given the market for LHP right now, I'd have to assume we'd trade Eyre rather than release him... somebody would certainly want him.

 

I still think Cotts gets sent down.

 

 

You'd think they'd try to showcase Eyre a bit so they could move him and keep Cotts on the big club.

[weis21]

Is the Shark maybe more suited for a bullpen role? Maybe he's more valuable as a guy who can go all out for 1-2 innings vs. pacing himself for 6+ innings? His fastball looked insane today.

 

Hop on the Shark's back out of the pen for the rest of this season and then give him a shot at the rotation next year.

This.

 

I see no downfall riding the hot hand until this season ends. If he starts to stink up the joint then you send him down and send up ascanio/ceda/weurtz.

 

If he somewhat keeps up this pace then you let him help the team out from the pen for the rest of the year and stretch him out next year. I see no real downfall if he sticks with the ML club this year in the pen instead of starting in the minors.

 

Whatever potential "experience" he lost due to pitching in the pen could be offset by his role as a crucuial member on a playoff teams' bullpen.

[Soul]

If Shark's FB is 95MPH with movement, that's a hell of a pitch. The slider could become pretty good too -- that's it, solid pitcher right there.

 

I'm also struck by this because the gun @ Principal had his FB at 90. So that's a pretty bad gun. I wonder if people are partially saying Shark didn't look as good down there because of that slow gun. A couple of us were sitting there laughing at the readings because what was coming out of his hand was so inconsistent with what was being posted on the scoreboard.

 

This guy's good -- I find it likely he's *always* been good. From what I've been hearing from Cubs people in the media, there's never been any real doubt in their minds, even on the day they drafted him.

 

I choose to believe the Cubs just outscouted everyone on this guy. It happens -- the Cubs are actually quite capable of producing pitching talent.

[weis21]

If Shark's FB is 95MPH with movement, that's a hell of a pitch. The slider could become pretty good too -- that's it, solid pitcher right there.

 

I'm also struck by this because the gun @ Principal had his FB at 90. So that's a pretty bad gun. I wonder if people are partially saying Shark didn't look as good down there because of that slow gun. A couple of us were sitting there laughing at the readings because what was coming out of his hand was so inconsistent with what was being posted on the scoreboard.

 

This guy's good -- I find it likely he's *always* been good. From what I've been hearing from Cubs people, there's never been any real doubt in their minds, even on the day they drafted him.

 

I choose to believe the Cubs just outscouted everyone on this guy. It happens -- the Cubs are actually quite capable of producing pitching talent.

I'm by no means a stat or scouting genius, obviously.

 

But, I think people seriously discredited the fact that Jeff was playing 2 major sports (one of which was in the nat'l spotlight).

 

I'm not a Wilken apologist and I have my doubts regarding Colivn, but I think he may have nailed the "potential" in Samardzija