Twins GM = Ridiculously Stupid

[Ball And Glove]

I don't know how many people saw this on FJM yesterday, but apparently Twins GM Bill Smith loves him some Livan Hernandez:

 

Twins general manager Bill Smith, on Livan Hernandez, who improved to 10-6 with a 5.29 earned-run average with Saturday's victory over Texas: "I'll take the (10) wins. Who do you want, a guy who's 10-15 with a 2.80 ERA or a guy who's 16-8 with a 7.00 ERA? I'll take the 16-8."

 

How long will it take for this guy to completely trash everything Terry Ryan built up? A couple seasons? This guy is proof that there will never be a shortage of dumb GM's in Major League Baseball to feast on.

 

One thing's for sure -- I think the Twins can now plead not guilty on intentionally leaving Liriano in the minors by reason of insanity. "How can you blame us for leaving Liriano in the minors when Livan has 10 wins!? Liriano doesn't have any!"

[NCCubFan]

That's just a BS excuse. They're only leaving Liriano down to delay his eligibility for arbitration, just like his agent is claiming.

[CubbieBum]

I have friend who argues this constantly. He fails to realize that the lower ERA the better chance that guys team has to win but if his teammates can't hit then its not his fault he doesn't get the wins. The 16-8 guy plays on a team like the Rangers with the 10-15 guy plays for a team like Washington.

 

My firend is a Mets fan and says constantly that Johan has completely sucked this year even though he has a 3.10 ERA. He says it simply because he is 8-7.

[Ball And Glove]

That's just a BS excuse. They're only leaving Liriano down to delay his eligibility for arbitration, just like his agent is claiming.

 

If that's the case, though, why did they put him in the rotation to start the year? Wouldn't it have made more sense for them to leave him in AAA all year?

[Ryne_MacGyver]

That's just a BS excuse. They're only leaving Liriano down to delay his eligibility for arbitration, just like his agent is claiming.

 

If that's the case, though, why did they put him in the rotation to start the year? Wouldn't it have made more sense for them to leave him in AAA all year?

...how long do they have to leave him down to get an extra arbi year out of it?

[Garwilly]

That said, would I have rather HAD the 10-15 or the 16-8 guy?

[BaseballBob]

Won/Loss records are not an accurate reflection of a pitcher's skills. You can be lights out on a lousy team so you have a 8-12 record because of lousy run support. You can be mediocre with a 13-6 record on a good team because your team puts 9 runs on the board for you every time out.

[UMFan83]

Honestly, anyone who does not see the logic behind ERA > WL record is not very bright in general.

[CubbieBum]

Honestly, anyone who does not see the logic behind ERA > WL record is not very bright in general.

 

Yeah my friend isn't bright. He argued Mussina should be an all-star when he was 10-5 even though his ERA was 3.8. Worst part is he's a baseball fanatic.

[RedVerbs]

ERA isn't a great stat either, but far better than W-L

[abuck1220]

liriano's last five starts:

 

35 ip, 19 h, ONE er, 5 bb, 42 k.

 

0.25 era.

[CubbieBum]

liriano's last five starts:

 

35 ip, 19 h, ONE er, 5 bb, 42 k.

 

0.25 era.

 

I don't know why the Twins want to burn the bridge and make it get to the point that he just won't play until he's traded or something along those lines because with those numbers its obvious what they are doing. Plus MLB could step in and punish the Twins for doing this.

[Derwood]

liriano's last five starts:

 

35 ip, 19 h, ONE er, 5 bb, 42 k.

 

0.25 era.

 

but how many wins?

[SouthSideRyan]

Honestly, anyone who does not see the logic behind ERA > WL record is not very bright in general.

 

Yeah my friend isn't bright. He argued Mussina should be an all-star when he was 10-5 even though his ERA was 3.8. Worst part is he's a baseball fanatic.

 

You know, Andy can read all this.

[CubbieBum]

Honestly, anyone who does not see the logic behind ERA > WL record is not very bright in general.

 

Yeah my friend isn't bright. He argued Mussina should be an all-star when he was 10-5 even though his ERA was 3.8. Worst part is he's a baseball fanatic.

 

You know, Andy can read all this.

 

It's not Andy. Andy and I argue over Notre Dame-Purdue crap (I can't recall any recurring Cub arguments other than Theriot at the beginning of the season). Andy and this friend have also argued over ERA-Wins. Less in person like I have; much more so on Facebook walls.

[CubbieBum]

liriano's last five starts:

 

35 ip, 19 h, ONE er, 5 bb, 42 k.

 

0.25 era.

 

but how many wins?

 

8-0 in his last 10 starts. It's on the front of ESPn MLB page right now. Here's a link ... http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/notebook?page=bbtn

[imb]

liriano's last five starts:

 

35 ip, 19 h, ONE er, 5 bb, 42 k.

 

0.25 era.

 

but how many wins?

 

8-0 in his last 10 starts. It's on the front of ESPn MLB page right now. Here's a link ... http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/notebook?page=bbtn

 

literally every post goes right over your head

[CubbieBum]

liriano's last five starts:

 

35 ip, 19 h, ONE er, 5 bb, 42 k.

 

0.25 era.

 

but how many wins?

 

8-0 in his last 10 starts. It's on the front of ESPn MLB page right now. Here's a link ... http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/notebook?page=bbtn

 

literally every post goes right over your head

 

Either that or you are taking it the wrong way and vastly over reacting (what you ... never). I know you were making a joke about the win vs. ERA argument but when I saw the stuff on ESPN I came back to post what he has done.

[champaignchris]

I'd keep the guy with the 2-something ERA and then trade the 16 win guy to the Twin's GM for some offense. Think he'd be willing to part with Morneau?

 

But seriously, he could've restructured the argument a bit...

 

For example, which would you rather have for a middle of the rotation starter?

 

Pitcher A: 160 IP, 2.95 ERA

Pitcher B: 220 IP, 4.55 ERA

 

The answer probably depends on how deep your bullpen is and how good (and reliable) your first couple of starters are. But still, it's worth a discussion.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

For example, which would you rather have for a middle of the rotation starter?

 

Pitcher A: 160 IP, 2.95 ERA

Pitcher B: 220 IP, 4.55 ERA

 

The answer probably depends on how deep your bullpen is and how good (and reliable) your first couple of starters are. But still, it's worth a discussion.

 

The pitcher(s) that pitched those other 60 innings would have to have an ERA over 8.82 in order for the cumulative ERA to be higher than the 220 IP, 4.55 ERA guy.

[soapy]

For example, which would you rather have for a middle of the rotation starter?

 

Pitcher A: 160 IP, 2.95 ERA

Pitcher B: 220 IP, 4.55 ERA

 

The answer probably depends on how deep your bullpen is and how good (and reliable) your first couple of starters are. But still, it's worth a discussion.

 

The pitcher(s) that pitched those other 60 innings would have to have an ERA over 8.82 in order for the cumulative ERA to be higher than the 220 IP, 4.55 ERA guy.

 

besides, i'm not having that discussion with out seeing the peripherals for these guys. ERA and IP isn't going to do it for me.

[Jake]

He's not stupid. He's just covering his ass.

[carolinacubbie]

Twins general manager Bill Smith, on Livan Hernandez, who improved to 10-6 with a 5.29 earned-run average with Saturday's victory over Texas: "I'll take the (10) wins. Who do you want, a guy who's 10-15 with a 2.80 ERA or a guy who's 16-8 with a 7.00 ERA? I'll take the 16-8."

 

Well just to play devil's advocate here, I would rather have the 16-8 guy then the 10-15 guy. The 10-15 guy is clearly the better pitcher though, but I mean winning is everything. And in the long run, the 10-15 guy would be better, but for one year I'd rather have the 16-8 guy regardless what his ERA is.

[Clem Fandango]

Twins general manager Bill Smith, on Livan Hernandez, who improved to 10-6 with a 5.29 earned-run average with Saturday's victory over Texas: "I'll take the (10) wins. Who do you want, a guy who's 10-15 with a 2.80 ERA or a guy who's 16-8 with a 7.00 ERA? I'll take the 16-8."

 

Well just to play devil's advocate here, I would rather have the 16-8 guy then the 10-15 guy. The 10-15 guy is clearly the better pitcher though, but I mean winning is everything. And in the long run, the 10-15 guy would be better, but for one year I'd rather have the 16-8 guy regardless what his ERA is.

 

The 16-8 guys is a product of good run support, and vice verse for the 10-15 guy.

 

If I'm in the playoffs, regardless of how much run support a pitcher gets in the regular season, I want the good pitcher going in October. If the Cubs made the playoffs and at the end of the year these numbers were there hypothetically...

 

Carlos Zambrano

12-16 3.05ERA 1.22WHIP

 

vs.

 

Ted Lilly

16-10 3.86ERA 1.38WHIP

 

Who do you take if you had to leave one of them off the roster?

[BigSlick]

He's not stupid. He's just covering his ass.

No, he is. He got Carlos Gomez and peanuts for Johan Santana, and Gomez isn't even that good. I'd be surprised if Gomez ever became a >.800 OPS guy, although he does have great defense and pretty good speed. (But he's not that good of a basestealer)

 

Imagine how good the Twins would be with both Liriano and Santana? They'd probably lead the Central by 8 games.