What will it take for Marquis to lose his rotation spot?

[inari]

Yes, this is completely reactionary. It's reactionary to Marquis' body of work as a major league pitcher, especially during his time with the Cubs. Except for his good start to last season, he's been pretty much horrendous during his entire time here. He can't strike guys out, he walks way too many, and he has a bad attitude to boot. But, he's got an absurd contract and he's never really been in serious danger of losing his job. I don't think he ever will be. If he's not traded, I think he's going to be in the rotation until his contract is up pretty much no matter what.

 

Agree/disagree?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I think if we deal for a starter and don't include Gallagher, then Marquis will be the one bumped.

[jersey cubs fan]

I think Lou wants him gone, but he can't think of a legit replacement right now.

 

Damn you Rich Hill.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I think Lou wants him gone, but he can't think of a legit replacement right now.

 

Damn you Rich Hill.

 

Hit the nail on the head.

[abuck1220]

yeah, if hill ever gets it together, marquis will be gone.

 

i'm not so sure a completely wild hill is any worse than marquis...

[Choonch]

I think Lou wants him gone, but he can't think of a legit replacement right now.

 

Damn you Rich Hill.

 

Yep. I don't think I've ever disliked a Cubs player more than Marquis....maybe Edmonds through the first week of his Cubs tenure #-o , but that's the only one that comes close.

 

He's awful in 80% of his starts, has a horrible attitude, and a bloated contract.

[Joe_Cub]

marshall is auditioning for two jobs, trade bait and rotation spot when z returns

[inari]

I think Lou wants him gone, but he can't think of a legit replacement right now.

 

Damn you Rich Hill.

 

Yep. I don't think I've ever disliked a Cubs player more than Marquis....maybe Edmonds through the first week of his Cubs tenure #-o , but that's the only one that comes close.

 

He's awful in 80% of his starts, has a horrible attitude, and a bloated contract.

 

Todd Hundley says hi.

[Banedon]

yeah, if hill ever gets it together, marquis will be gone.

 

i'm not so sure a completely wild hill is any worse than marquis...

 

But Hill's confidence is a fragile, fragile thing. If it isn't broken already, it's sure got a billion cracks.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I hate starting pitchers who consistently post ERA+ better than league average. Boot them all, the jerks.

[Banedon]

I hate starting pitchers who consistently post ERA+ better than league average. Boot them all, the jerks.

 

Marquis ERA+

2005 102

2006 74

2007 101

2008 101 (not including todays game, which will surely push that below 100)

 

I'd call that at or below league average. Calling that "consistently better than league average" is pretty misleading.

[CubColtPacer]

I hate starting pitchers who consistently post ERA+ better than league average. Boot them all, the jerks.

 

Marquis ERA+

2005 102

2006 74

2007 101

2008 101 (not including todays game, which will surely push that below 100)

 

I'd call that at or below league average. Calling that "consistently better than league average" is pretty misleading.

 

Starting pitcher average is more like 90-95, not 100. But he's probably going to be worse than that this year after today's outing. He'll be close enough though that 1 good outing will push him back to average.

 

His ERA will have to continue to go up to get pulled though.

[Tracer Bullet]

I hate starting pitchers who consistently post ERA+ better than league average. Boot them all, the jerks.

 

Marquis ERA+

2005 102

2006 74

2007 101

2008 101 (not including todays game, which will surely push that below 100)

 

I'd call that at or below league average. Calling that "consistently better than league average" is pretty misleading.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong (as I'm sure many will), but by definition, I think 100 is league average. So while it may not be a great deal better, 3/4 years is "consistently better than league average." Now, he'll probably drop below 100 after today and I want him off the team as much as anyone, but his post wasn't really misleading.

[jersey cubs fan]

I hate starting pitchers who consistently post ERA+ better than league average. Boot them all, the jerks.

 

Marquis ERA+

2005 102

2006 74

2007 101

2008 101 (not including todays game, which will surely push that below 100)

 

I'd call that at or below league average. Calling that "consistently better than league average" is pretty misleading.

 

Starting pitcher average is more like 90-95, not 100. But he's probably going to be worse than that this year after today's outing. He'll be close enough though that 1 good outing will push him back to average.

 

His ERA will have to continue to go up to get pulled though.

 

Except that average includes a significant amount of starts and innings thrown by guys who aren't regulars in a rotation bringing down the cruve, and making the concept of an average pitcher rather meaningless.

 

Marquis is a guy who goes out into a rotation year after year and disappoints.

[jersey cubs fan]

I hate starting pitchers who consistently post ERA+ better than league average. Boot them all, the jerks.

 

Marquis ERA+

2005 102

2006 74

2007 101

2008 101 (not including todays game, which will surely push that below 100)

 

I'd call that at or below league average. Calling that "consistently better than league average" is pretty misleading.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong (as I'm sure many will), but by definition, I think 100 is league average. So while it may not be a great deal better, 3/4 years is "consistently better than league average." Now, he'll probably drop below 100 after today and I want him off the team as much as anyone, but his post wasn't really misleading.

 

So that's 2/4 and clearly not consistent.

 

Why don't we look at this career:

 

92

128

82

77

115

102

74

101

and soon to be below 100 in all likelihood.

 

Clearly not a consistently above average pitcher by any stretch of the imagination.

 

 

Making fun of people for disliking what Marquis brings to the table is a foolish practice.

[CubColtPacer]

I hate starting pitchers who consistently post ERA+ better than league average. Boot them all, the jerks.

 

Marquis ERA+

2005 102

2006 74

2007 101

2008 101 (not including todays game, which will surely push that below 100)

 

I'd call that at or below league average. Calling that "consistently better than league average" is pretty misleading.

 

Starting pitcher average is more like 90-95, not 100. But he's probably going to be worse than that this year after today's outing. He'll be close enough though that 1 good outing will push him back to average.

 

His ERA will have to continue to go up to get pulled though.

 

Except that average includes a significant amount of starts and innings thrown by guys who aren't regulars in a rotation bringing down the cruve, and making the concept of an average pitcher rather meaningless.

 

Marquis is a guy who goes out into a rotation year after year and disappoints.

 

And part of Marquis's value is that he takes the ball every 5th day and performs at that average level, which means those guys who aren't regulars in the rotation don't need to make as many starts. Considering you've arguing that people who only come up for a few starts are horrible and drag down the average number, not needing to use those guys in place of Marquis should then be a good part of his performance.

 

And you disputed the use of the word consistent in the other post when someone tried to say he was consistently average or above average, and then you did the same thing in that last sentence. Marquis doesn't go out every year and disappoint. He has some years where he's an asset, and some years where he's terrible. Last year he was an asset. The jury's still out on this year. Right now it looks more like terrible, but 1 great start will send the pendulum swinging back once again.

 

I can completely understand people who want to get off the roller coaster though. It's not a very fun ride.

[jersey cubs fan]

Marquis doesn't go out every year and disappoint. He has some years where he's an asset, and some years where he's terrible. Last year he was an asset.

 

And yet he was still too much of a liability to keep in the playoff rotation, because he so often disappoints, as he did throughout the second half.

 

Part of being consistently above average is not being consistently horrible over large stretches of multiple seasons.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I hate starting pitchers who consistently post ERA+ better than league average. Boot them all, the jerks.

 

Marquis ERA+

2005 102

2006 74

2007 101

2008 101 (not including todays game, which will surely push that below 100)

 

I'd call that at or below league average. Calling that "consistently better than league average" is pretty misleading.

 

First, as has been mentioned, relievers consistently post better ERAs than starters. The league average for a starter is around 95.

 

Second, nice arbitrary endpoint that leaves out his best season.

 

He's about 50/50 right now to make this season his fourth in the last five seasons of above-average starterness.

 

The mindless Marquis hate is just that, mindless. He's our worst starting pitcher, give or take a Gallagher, but that doesn't mean he's horrible.

[RynoRules]

From a pure stuff standpoint, I think he has enough to be a solid no. 4, yet he can't seem to keep the ball down. Its really frustrating.

 

Here's the thing - if you get someone to replace him (Marshall when Z returns or a trade), what do you do with him? He'd be just as bad if not worse out of the pen.

[jersey cubs fan]

I hate starting pitchers who consistently post ERA+ better than league average. Boot them all, the jerks.

 

Marquis ERA+

2005 102

2006 74

2007 101

2008 101 (not including todays game, which will surely push that below 100)

 

I'd call that at or below league average. Calling that "consistently better than league average" is pretty misleading.

 

First, as has been mentioned, relievers consistently post better ERAs than starters. The league average for a starter is around 95.

 

Second, nice arbitrary endpoint that leaves out his best season.

 

He's about 50/50 right now to make this season his fourth in the last five seasons of above-average starterness.

 

The mindless Marquis hate is just that, mindless. He's our worst starting pitcher, give or take a Gallagher, but that doesn't mean he's horrible.

 

 

That's a very stupid thing to say. There are clear reasons to hate Jason Marquis. Crystal freaking clear.

[Sammy Sofa]

Wrong thread. Edited June 26, 2008 by Sammy Sofa

[Hairyducked Idiot]

That's a very stupid thing to say. There are clear reasons to hate Jason Marquis. Crystal freaking clear.

 

 

Fair point and withdrawn.

 

But none of the potential reasons are based in the value of his performance as a baseball pitcher. Unless one hates average starting pitchers, which I guess is possible.

[Sammy Sofa]

From a pure stuff standpoint, I think he has enough to be a solid no. 4, yet he can't seem to keep the ball down. Its really frustrating.

 

Here's the thing - if you get someone to replace him (Marshall when Z returns or a trade), what do you do with him? He'd be just as bad if not worse out of the pen.

 

Release him.

 

I'm continually baffled as to why the Cubs can't seem to grasp that concept.

[TruffleShuffle]

jason marquis is a nice example of why citing ERA or ERA+ as one's sole argument is a losing proposition.

[imb]

With a whip heading into the 1.5s, I imagine his ERA has come with a fair bit of luck to this point. I'd love to kick his ass to long relief, but who takes his spot?