Re: College Basketball 2008-2009

[E.J.]

Bruce Weber tells the haters to STFU

 

It's hard to take a guy with that voice seriously.

 

He had polyps on his vocal chords as a kid.

 

Crap. Now I feel like an ass.

[SouthSideRyan]

Indianapolis is a better locale for the Big Ten Tournament than Chicago.

 

The entire city shuts down at midnight, and it's 4-5 times smaller than Chicago. Being able to walk to a bar rather(and party for a full hour after the late game!) than take a 5 minute cab ride doesn't make it a better locale. They can't even sell it out this year.

[Andy]

You Big Ten types can't have Cleveland for a rotating site. The mighty MAC tournament is played there...

 

If the Big East wanted to rotate sites, Philly would be a decent site to throw in though it would help Villanova a lot. But I can't think of any others. Maybe DC, but that'd be insanely unfair to anyone who played Georgetown.

[Garwilly]

I was in college in 2005.

 

We drove to Chicago for the Big Ten Tournament, to Indy for the opening NCAA rounds the next weekend, and back to Rosemont the next weekend for regional finals. There was absolutely nothing going on in Indy outside of the NCAA's.

 

All venues were extremely Illini friendly, but Rosemont and Chicago were simply better venues. Being from Chicago may bias me, but we literlly had few options other than going back to our hotel in Indy.

 

I have been to numerous Big Ten Tourneys, and would gladly go to future ones at The United Center, but we won't see that until 2013 or whenever.

[Exile on Waveland]

Indianapolis is a better locale for the Big Ten Tournament than Chicago.

 

The entire city shuts down at midnight, and it's 4-5 times smaller than Chicago. Being able to walk to a bar rather(and party for a full hour after the late game!) than take a 5 minute cab ride doesn't make it a better locale. They can't even sell it out this year.

 

I've attended the tournament at both locales as both a fan and a working journalist. Indianapolis, though a far inferior city, is a superior locale for the tournament. Fans, coaches and journalists have all generally agreed.

 

Indy's downtown is basically founded on conventions/sporting events. Conseco Fieldhouse is right downtown within walking distance to all necessary hotels, restaurants and bars. Most of downtown is even connected via skyways, so weather isn't an issue. Downtown does not close at midnight, especially on the weekends. There are numerous bars within a block or two from Conseco that stay open very late. Your contention is empirically false. The area is also far nicer and safer than the United Center's location. Conseco Fieldhouse is also a much better facility. Indianapolis is a lot cheaper than Chicago as well. A perfunctory search didn't yield any attendance figures, but I can almost promise attendance is equal at both locations. As an anecdote, the Conseco has seemingly had more fans for the opening rounds than Chicago.

 

This coming from someone who doesn't like Indianapolis much at all. It's fitting of the "naptown" or "India-no-place" epithets. However, there is a reason conventions and sporting events frequent it. There's a reason the Final Four is on permanent rotation to Indy (and not just because the NCAA is headquartered there). Hell, the NFL even saw it fit to host the Super Bowl (though being in company with Detroit isn't terribly impressive). The city is predicated on hosting these very events.

[mul21]

I agree with whoever said Milwaukee would be a solid alternative. Minneapolis would be a good option if it was a little more centrally located.

[SouthSideRyan]

You're from Bloomington and are an IU fan. You don't think your opinion is skewed by the fact that the tourney is in Indy? I admit I'm biased because I'm from Chicago.

 

What are you basing it off of that coaches, journalists, and fans like it better in Indy?

 

I'll defer to your knowledge on Indy nightlife. The talk on IB is the people from Indiana defending it saying that bars stay open til midnight or even 1. The Conseco area is no doubt safer than the area around the UC, but the UC isn't exactly the ghetto.

 

Indy being a cheaper city is part of the problem. Chicago has 4-5 times as many people and is THE alumni base of the Big Ten. It has far more big money types that will sell this out every year. The economy takes a hit like this year, and Indy can't sell out. You think Chicago would have a hard time selling out the BTT?

 

The super bowl was held there because it was a giant dome. The Tournaments are held there because it's the home of the NCAA. And as you said they share both honors with Detroit.

 

It just seems utterly foolish and small-time to have the 3rd biggest market in the county at the center of your conference, with by far the biggest alumni base(I believe the biggest for all schools except for PSU) right there and instead you choose for the Indianapolis Convention Center of Indiana.

[CubColtPacer]

You're from Bloomington and are an IU fan. You don't think your opinion is skewed by the fact that the tourney is in Indy? I admit I'm biased because I'm from Chicago.

 

What are you basing it off of that coaches, journalists, and fans like it better in Indy?

 

I'll defer to your knowledge on Indy nightlife. The talk on IB is the people from Indiana defending it saying that bars stay open til midnight or even 1. The Conseco area is no doubt safer than the area around the UC, but the UC isn't exactly the ghetto.

 

Indy being a cheaper city is part of the problem. Chicago has 4-5 times as many people and is THE alumni base of the Big Ten. It has far more big money types that will sell this out every year. The economy takes a hit like this year, and Indy can't sell out. You think Chicago would have a hard time selling out the BTT?

 

The super bowl was held there because it was a giant dome. The Tournaments are held there because it's the home of the NCAA. And as you said they share both honors with Detroit.

 

It just seems utterly foolish and small-time to have the 3rd biggest market in the county at the center of your conference, with by far the biggest alumni base(I believe the biggest for all schools except for PSU) right there and instead you choose for the Indianapolis Convention Center of Indiana.

 

I have no firsthand knowledge of it, but from what I've heard most bars in Indy are open until 3. That was the time that was said in all the stories about the problems with switching to DST.

 

I think Chicago would have an easier time selling out. But sales problems are only going to happen once in a great while.

 

Final fours were in Indy for 15-20 years before the NCAA arrived. The continued existence of them has nothing to with the NCAA being in Indianapolis.

 

I believe Exile might be referencing some newspaper articles from the Indy Star a year or two back where there was more public support for Indy than Chicago from coaches and fans. Unfortunately, I can't provide a link as those articles cost money to access.

 

Indy is just as much the center of the conference as Chicago.

 

Northwestern, Iowa, Minnesota, and Wisconsin are closer to Chicago.

 

Penn State, Ohio State, Indiana, and Purdue are closer to Indy.

 

Michigan, Michigan State, and Illinois are almost exactly the same difference from both.

 

I don't see how much other entertainment options you need anyway. The basketball games take up most of your time. If you have access to good restaurants (or bars if you're inclined), what else do you really need? (not saying that's all there is in Indy, but there isn't going to be time to go see much else if you're there for the tournament) Chicago's size may have actually worked against them in the selection process. A lot of fans coming to Indy enjoyed that Indy bases everything around the tournament while in Chicago it's just another event.

[Exile on Waveland]

You're from Bloomington and are an IU fan. You don't think your opinion is skewed by the fact that the tourney is in Indy? I admit I'm biased because I'm from Chicago.

 

What are you basing it off of that coaches, journalists, and fans like it better in Indy?

 

I'll defer to your knowledge on Indy nightlife. The talk on IB is the people from Indiana defending it saying that bars stay open til midnight or even 1. The Conseco area is no doubt safer than the area around the UC, but the UC isn't exactly the ghetto.

 

Indy being a cheaper city is part of the problem. Chicago has 4-5 times as many people and is THE alumni base of the Big Ten. It has far more big money types that will sell this out every year. The economy takes a hit like this year, and Indy can't sell out. You think Chicago would have a hard time selling out the BTT?

 

The super bowl was held there because it was a giant dome. The Tournaments are held there because it's the home of the NCAA. And as you said they share both honors with Detroit.

 

It just seems utterly foolish and small-time to have the 3rd biggest market in the county at the center of your conference, with by far the biggest alumni base(I believe the biggest for all schools except for PSU) right there and instead you choose for the Indianapolis Convention Center of Indiana.

 

No, I don't think I'm particularly biased on this issue. My background (both journalism and law) attempt to subjugate all personal biases. That's not entirely possible, of course, but I have a decent idea how to suppress bias. Anyway, enough about me. Well, unfortunately not, because I'm about to rely on my anecdotal experience. Having spoken to coaches and journalists, to a man they expressed a preference for Indy/Conseco. I'm a nobody on a message board, so I wouldn't blame you if you decide to disregard this.

 

The IB is wrong, plenty of bars stay open well past midnight or 1 am. The bars mostly (all?) stay open until 3 am (and that is often a "soft" closing time). Obviously, though, the nightlife is not in the same stratosphere as Chicago's. I think Indy's is fine for this purpose though; attending the Tournament limits free time.

 

Indy hosted multiple Final Four's before the NCAA relocated there from Kansas City, and it wasn't near the only capable venue. It even hosted once (1980) before the RCA/Hoosier Dome existed.

 

All things being equal, in a perfect world, Chicago would host the event. It's easily the crown jewel city of the Midwest/Big Ten area. However, I don't think things are equal in this instance. For what it's worth, Indy is the 13th most populous city in the country.

 

Finally, I will be stunned if the Tournament doesn't sell out this year. The Big Ten may not be infallible, but there has to be a reason Indy was picked over Chicago. Chicago hosted the first four years, then fell into a rotation with Indy, then Indy was chosen on a semi-permanent basis for the next few seasons.

[hawkeyecub]

As someone who has been to both, Indy is far better in my opinion.

 

If I want to just go somewhere for a weekend I'll pick Chicago. When I go to the Big Ten Tournament my weekend is spent at the arena, at restaurants/bars and at my hotel. Indy is the better venue for that scenario.

 

I like Conseco better than the UC for watching games. In Indy I can get a cheaper hotel (but nice) much closer to the venue. Walking distance if you want. There are a ton of eating/drinking options a stone's throw from Conseco. Each of them roll out the carpet for fans and there's a great atmosphere. Not the case in Chicago. There are no central spots like that and half of the establishments don't even know the BTT is going on.

 

In Indy it is THE deal and the whole city works around it accordingly. It's still big enough to offer anything you would want with a conference tourney like that and has central location.

[Derwood]

I wonder if the price tag at the UC was a lot higher than Conseco

[CubbieBum]

For the record I've lived in downtown Indy for a summer and the bars are open till 2 or 3 every weekend and for big events they will stay open later if the bar is still crowded.

[Vanilla Ice]

The ACC Tournament is hardly ever in Atlanta.

 

It is in Charlotte and Greensboro a lot.

[SouthSideRyan]

I wonder if the price tag at the UC was a lot higher than Conseco

 

This is obviously the issue. That and the ego[expletive] of having the city revolve around you.

 

In Indy it is THE deal and the whole city works around it accordingly. It's still big enough to offer anything you would want with a conference tourney like that and has central location.

 

Seriously who cares about this? It makes the conference and the tournament look small-time. The Big Ten plays this nonstop media war with everyone calling them boring and bad and behind the times, and they go and stage their annual event in Indianapolis?? There's something to be said about the image you project, and your image is constantly disparaged, why not do something grand and extravagant and showcase yourselves like you're a big deal. Not go to the biggest city that will give in to your every want.

 

And nobody's addressed the fact that Chicago is the Big 10 alum capital of the world. There are probably without exaggeration 10 times as many alums in Chicago than there are in Indy.

[CubColtPacer]

I wonder if the price tag at the UC was a lot higher than Conseco

 

This is obviously the issue. That and the ego[expletive] of having the city revolve around you.

 

In Indy it is THE deal and the whole city works around it accordingly. It's still big enough to offer anything you would want with a conference tourney like that and has central location.

 

Seriously who cares about this? It makes the conference and the tournament look small-time. The Big Ten plays this nonstop media war with everyone calling them boring and bad and behind the times, and they go and stage their annual event in Indianapolis?? There's something to be said about the image you project, and your image is constantly disparaged, why not do something grand and extravagant and showcase yourselves like you're a big deal. Not go to the biggest city that will give in to your every want.

 

And nobody's addressed the fact that Chicago is the Big 10 alum capital of the world. There are probably without exaggeration 10 times as many alums in Chicago than there are in Indy.

 

It adds a lot of community atmosphere. You walk out of the stadium and instead of jumping into a cab you're walking around with thousands of Big 10 fans. You go to restaurants that are expecting the rush at odd hours of the day and are also filled with other fans. You feel like you're at a great event rather than just going to a series of basketball games.

 

Does the ACC tournament look small time? How about the Big 12 tournament?

 

Image should at best be a secondary concern. The best atmosphere for those who buy tickets should be first. But I would definitely argue that the Pac 10 tournament is not any more "prestigious" than the ACC or Big 10 tournaments just because it's held in LA. Do you think it is?

People don't usually think about that. If they think about the venue at all, the big question is if it is a great place for basketball. Very few would scoff at Indianapolis hosting a college tournament because they already host the biggest college basketball event of them all. If it's good enough to be the spotlight for the whole nation, it's certainly good enough to be the spotlight for one region.

 

Besides, going to Chicago certainly doesn't qualify as doing something "grand or extravagant". It's not like the Super Bowl where the things that go on around the games are as important as the game itself. For the average viewer, all they are doing is watching a basketball game and seeing the arena.

 

The alums thing hasn't been brought up because it's mostly irrelevant. Most years the tournament will sell out, and when it sells out it doesn't matter how many alums are in the city...it's not like many are going to go downtown just to try to find other fans of their team.

[Guest]

I'd want to hold it in Chicago so that recruits and potential recruits could see my program in a tournament atmosphere.

 

But maybe that's just me. :)

[CubInOK]

I dunno about the Big 12 tournament. I think since the Texas schools were added to the Big 8 it lost some of its luster, but I don't remember anything really about the Big 8. People that do remember say the Big 8 tourney was big. Now, the Big 12 tourney is in Oklahoma City sometimes (like this year), Dallas sometimes, and KC sometimes. I can never figure it out. People in OKC go to it, even the women's games. I'm not too sure about the other sites, but I've always thought KC was a pretty nice place for it.

[Guest]

And nobody's addressed the fact that Chicago is the Big 10 alum capital of the world. There are probably without exaggeration 10 times as many alums in Chicago than there are in Indy.

 

This is the biggest reason why the tournament should be in Chicago.

[CubbieBum]

And nobody's addressed the fact that Chicago is the Big 10 alum capital of the world. There are probably without exaggeration 10 times as many alums in Chicago than there are in Indy.

 

This is the biggest reason why the tournament should be in Chicago.

 

Its not like Indianapolis isn't dominated by Big Ten alums. My experience (and I go to both cities a lot) is Indy is more in tune with the Big Ten. Yes Chicago has the most total fans but they also have a whole lot of people who could care less about the Big Ten because Chicago is so big. Indianapolis in my experience has less non-Big Ten fans. You can go to Chicago, walk around downtown and not see Big Ten gear anywhere. You go to Indianapolis on any day you will see people in IU, Purdue, Ohio State, Michigan and Illinois gear.

 

As far as the prestige someone brought up and how if the Big Ten wants to look good they should hold it in Chicago because its more prestigious. As a whole Chicago is obviously way above Indianapolis but there is a reason Indy hosts so many big sporting events (especially in basketball). Anyone who knows college basketball towns wouldn't laugh at the Big Ten for playing in Indy. The people who do laugh because they don't know college basketball and how Indy is rated ... well I could care less what they think. The only opinions that matter to me is from fans and most fans know Indy isn't second rate when it comes to hosting sporting events.

[Magnetic Curses]

And nobody's addressed the fact that Chicago is the Big 10 alum capital of the world. There are probably without exaggeration 10 times as many alums in Chicago than there are in Indy.

 

This is the biggest reason why the tournament should be in Chicago.

 

Its not like Indianapolis isn't dominated by Big Ten alums. My experience (and I go to both cities a lot) is Indy is more in tune with the Big Ten. Yes Chicago has the most total fans but they also have a whole lot of people who could care less about the Big Ten because Chicago is so big. Indianapolis in my experience has less non-Big Ten fans. You can go to Chicago, walk around downtown and not see Big Ten gear anywhere. You go to Indianapolis on any day you will see people in IU, Purdue, Ohio State, Michigan and Illinois gear.

 

yeah, i'm pretty sure that my town has a bigger percentage of big ten fans than chicago, but we can't get the tournament.

 

percentage is meaningless. chicago has far more big ten fans, meaning more interest and more money. percentage has nothin to do with it. this is not what city most embodies the spirit of the big ten contest. it's about money and patronage.

 

indy isn't a bad place to play it, but chicago is infinitely better.

[snoodmonger]

I dunno about the Big 12 tournament. I think since the Texas schools were added to the Big 8 it lost some of its luster, but I don't remember anything really about the Big 8. People that do remember say the Big 8 tourney was big. Now, the Big 12 tourney is in Oklahoma City sometimes (like this year), Dallas sometimes, and KC sometimes. I can never figure it out. People in OKC go to it, even the women's games. I'm not too sure about the other sites, but I've always thought KC was a pretty nice place for it.

 

 

KC gets a real nice attendance because of it's proximity to KU/KSU/MU and ISU.

 

The Dallas venue makes sense except the Texas schools don't care that much about hoops. But since UT is pulling the strings for the Big 12 conference, I'm just glad it's not in Dallas every year.

[UMFan83]

Go down to Rush/Division at 2am during one of the nights of the Big Ten tournament and tell me that Big Ten fans don't all congregate together at the same bars, and theres not a Big 10 atmosphere in the city. Go into Five Faces and while you are waiting for food, listen to each team's fans drunkenly trying to sing their school's fight songs. It's fun.

 

Sure the atmosphere around the arena might not be great, but the atmosphere around the city is much better. Wouldn't you rather take the weekend trip to Chicago rather than Indianapolis?

[cubbinalltheway]

i don't know how the hell georgetown is winning this game.

[snoodmonger]

those uconn unis are ass

[manbearcub]

this game is a joke. NW hits like 7 contested 3s in a row and ours rim out.