How are the White Sox so soap dropping unstopable?

[SouthSideRyan]

One fact about Danks that does not get mentioned much is that he had a baseball mentor growing up. A family friend in Texas who mentored him through Little League, high school, college, etc.

 

Who was this? Nolan Ryan. Yes. That Nolan Ryan.

 

And what an important fact that is!

 

It's important to know he was encouraged to throw 400 pitches per start.

[jersey cubs fan]

When Buehrle is on, him and Vazquez is more solid than Zambrano/Lilly.

 

Wait a minute. When Buerhle is on? It's easy to say that at his best a guy is better than somebody else is at their non-best. But come on here, Buerhle/Vazquez are not more solid than Zambrano/Lilly. Zambrano has been the most consistently good pitcher of that group, while the rest of the three have had their ups and downs.

 

I think they are. I say when Buehrle is on because he tends to be inconsistent, but not on a start to start basis, but a half season to half season sort of basis (don't have the stats handy, but this is what I've noticed). I think bar none Vazquez is better than Lilly. So together, if Buehrle is throwing well, I would take them over Z and Lilly. You are right though, Zambrano is easily the most talented off the 4 pitches.

 

Try and justify it all you want, but when you compare guys by using one pitcher's "on" stats vs another pitcher's average stats, it's completely bogus.

[UMFan83]

When Buehrle is on, him and Vazquez is more solid than Zambrano/Lilly.

 

Wait a minute. When Buerhle is on? It's easy to say that at his best a guy is better than somebody else is at their non-best. But come on here, Buerhle/Vazquez are not more solid than Zambrano/Lilly. Zambrano has been the most consistently good pitcher of that group, while the rest of the three have had their ups and downs.

 

I think they are. I say when Buehrle is on because he tends to be inconsistent, but not on a start to start basis, but a half season to half season sort of basis (don't have the stats handy, but this is what I've noticed). I think bar none Vazquez is better than Lilly. So together, if Buehrle is throwing well, I would take them over Z and Lilly. You are right though, Zambrano is easily the most talented off the 4 pitches.

 

Try and justify it all you want, but when you compare guys by using one pitcher's "on" stats vs another pitcher's average stats, it's completely bogus.

 

It doesn't matter though. If created a fictitious world where Buehrle was "on" (for instance like first half '07), I would take him and Vazquez over Z and Lilly.

[Outshined_One]

One fact about Danks that does not get mentioned much is that he had a baseball mentor growing up. A family friend in Texas who mentored him through Little League, high school, college, etc.

 

Who was this? Nolan Ryan. Yes. That Nolan Ryan.

 

There are other Nolan Ryans?

[SABR Gamer]

They take a cast off from the D-Backs and turn him into an MVP candidate

 

He wasn't an elite prospect a few years ago or anything....wait.

[Roast]

One fact about Danks that does not get mentioned much is that he had a baseball mentor growing up. A family friend in Texas who mentored him through Little League, high school, college, etc.

 

Who was this? Nolan Ryan. Yes. That Nolan Ryan.

 

And what an important fact that is!

Did you know Dusty baker was on deck when Hank Aaron hit number 714?

[17 Seconds]

I don't really care enough about the Sox to really be pissed, but it definitely annoys me that they picked up former great prospects at a discount when their original teams gave up on them (Danks, Floyd, Quentin) and when they get to the Sox they suddenly figure it out. I still think Floyd's numbers are flukey as hell and Quentin is playing over his head, but still.

 

I also still find it mind boggling that Arizona gave up on Quentin so early, just so they could sign Eric effing Byrnes to an extension. Imagine is the D-backs had Quentin over Byrnes right now. Terrible, terrible trade.

[inari]

When Buehrle is on, him and Vazquez is more solid than Zambrano/Lilly.

 

Wait a minute. When Buerhle is on? It's easy to say that at his best a guy is better than somebody else is at their non-best. But come on here, Buerhle/Vazquez are not more solid than Zambrano/Lilly. Zambrano has been the most consistently good pitcher of that group, while the rest of the three have had their ups and downs.

 

I think they are. I say when Buehrle is on because he tends to be inconsistent, but not on a start to start basis, but a half season to half season sort of basis (don't have the stats handy, but this is what I've noticed). I think bar none Vazquez is better than Lilly. So together, if Buehrle is throwing well, I would take them over Z and Lilly. You are right though, Zambrano is easily the most talented off the 4 pitches.

 

Try and justify it all you want, but when you compare guys by using one pitcher's "on" stats vs another pitcher's average stats, it's completely bogus.

 

It doesn't matter though. If created a fictitious world where Buehrle was "on" (for instance like first half '07), I would take him and Vazquez over Z and Lilly.

 

When Z is "on" he's unspeakably better than Buehrle. It makes up for the difference between Lilly and Vazquez.

[Sammy Sofa]

I don't really care enough about the Sox to really be pissed, but it definitely annoys me that they picked up former great prospects at a discount when their original teams gave up on them (Danks, Floyd, Quentin) and when they get to the Sox they suddenly figure it out. I still think Floyd's numbers are flukey as hell and Quentin is playing over his head, but still.

 

It's not a bad strategy...not a guaentee for success by any means, but better than the Cubs' "target all veterans all the time" approach.

[sneakypower]

I don't see why crappy teams don't pick up the pieces of every prospect who's had a rough initial showing at the MLB level causing teams to sour on them.

 

At least you have so much more potential upside for example, going after McPherson, Ensberg or Marte than proven lousiness like Jose Castillo.

 

Brandon Phillips, Josh Hamilton have also shown how these moves can really pay off big time. And I'm guessing Felix will too down the road.

[Brett]

I don't see why crappy teams don't pick up the pieces of every prospect who's had a rough initial showing at the MLB level causing teams to sour on them.

 

At least you have so much more potential upside for example, going after McPherson, Ensberg or Marte than proven lousiness like Jose Castillo.

 

Brandon Phillips, Josh Hamilton have also shown how these moves can really pay off big time. And I'm guessing Felix will too down the road.

 

I'm too lazy to put a bunch of research into it right now, but I feel relatively confident in saying that the Brandon Phillips' and Josh Hamiltons of the world are very much the exception, and not the rule. I think "crappy teams" make these kind of moves all the time - we just don't hear about them unless they blow up.

[SouthSideRyan]

Hendry's actually done this a few times, though not necessarily as free agent signings. He targeted Richard Lewis (former high round pick 2nd maybe?) from the Braves when he dealt Juan Cruz. He picked up Scott Moore (8th overall pick) in the Farnsworth deal. Kyler Burke(1st round) and Bowen(2nd) in the Barrett trade.

 

Koyie Hill, Jason Anderson, Jerome Williams, David Aardsma, Adam Harben, and so on.

[sneakypower]

I don't see why crappy teams don't pick up the pieces of every prospect who's had a rough initial showing at the MLB level causing teams to sour on them.

 

At least you have so much more potential upside for example, going after McPherson, Ensberg or Marte than proven lousiness like Jose Castillo.

 

Brandon Phillips, Josh Hamilton have also shown how these moves can really pay off big time. And I'm guessing Felix will too down the road.

 

I'm too lazy to put a bunch of research into it right now, but I feel relatively confident in saying that the Brandon Phillips' and Josh Hamiltons of the world are very much the exception, and not the rule. I think "crappy teams" make these kind of moves all the time - we just don't hear about them unless they blow up.

i fully understand that there'll be players like Joel Guzman, Brazelton, Jerome Williams, Burroughs who don't benefit a whole lot from a change of scenery. but you don't really lose much in finding that out, and you have such a substantially higher potential payoff than you do when you sign John Mabry.

[nolanwood]

When Buehrle is on, him and Vazquez is more solid than Zambrano/Lilly.

 

Wait a minute. When Buerhle is on? It's easy to say that at his best a guy is better than somebody else is at their non-best. But come on here, Buerhle/Vazquez are not more solid than Zambrano/Lilly. Zambrano has been the most consistently good pitcher of that group, while the rest of the three have had their ups and downs.

 

I think they are. I say when Buehrle is on because he tends to be inconsistent, but not on a start to start basis, but a half season to half season sort of basis (don't have the stats handy, but this is what I've noticed). I think bar none Vazquez is better than Lilly. So together, if Buehrle is throwing well, I would take them over Z and Lilly. You are right though, Zambrano is easily the most talented off the 4 pitches.

 

Try and justify it all you want, but when you compare guys by using one pitcher's "on" stats vs another pitcher's average stats, it's completely bogus.

 

It doesn't matter though. If created a fictitious world where Buehrle was "on" (for instance like first half '07), I would take him and Vazquez over Z and Lilly.

 

When Z is "on" he's unspeakably better than Buehrle. It makes up for the difference between Lilly and Vazquez.

 

=D> :thumbsup:

[BCVM22]

Quentin goes deep again; 13 HR, 42 RBI on the year. Good crikey.

 

EDIT: And he just hit his 2nd of the night to end the ballgame.

Edited May 26, 2008 by BCVM22

[SouthSideRyan]

Quentin goes deep again; 13 HR, 42 RBI on the year. Good crikey.

 

14/43 and a win.

 

I can't wait to move out of this hellhole.

[chuckywang]

Quentin goes deep again; 13 HR, 42 RBI on the year. Good crikey.

 

EDIT: And he just hit his 2nd of the night to end the ballgame.

 

Sweet sassy molassy! :o

[17 Seconds]

I'm starting to think the White Sox are the favorites in the Central right now. Detroit and Cleveland are an absolute mess right now. The Tigers pitching is pathetic and the Indians offense is non-existant. 85 wins could win that division, maybe less. I don't see Detroit or Cleveland turning it around anytime soon.

[sneakypower]

the Sox will be lucky to finish higher than 3rd

 

it's still the Tigers division

[inari]

the Sox will be lucky to finish higher than 3rd

 

it's still the Tigers division

 

That rotation is absolute garbage. It's either going to be Cleveland or the Sox. I'd put my money on the Sox.

[SouthSideRyan]

I'm starting to think the White Sox are the favorites in the Central right now. Detroit and Cleveland are an absolute mess right now. The Tigers pitching is pathetic and the Indians offense is non-existant. 85 wins could win that division, maybe less. I don't see Detroit or Cleveland turning it around anytime soon.

 

This nails it. The real question is how are the Indians and Tigers so terrible?

[Soul]

the Sox will be lucky to finish higher than 3rd

 

it's still the Tigers division

 

The Tigers would need to do something to improve their pitching. My understanding is they've got key components who are out, and may not come back at all.

 

I think we're looking at a case where the AL Central is simply not as good as expected, and the White Sox are pouncing on it.

 

It's interesting because it looks like the exact opposite is true in the NL Central. The division is looking to be better than expected, and the Cubs aren't able to run away with it despite a hot start.

[UMFan83]

I'm starting to think the White Sox are the favorites in the Central right now. Detroit and Cleveland are an absolute mess right now. The Tigers pitching is pathetic and the Indians offense is non-existant. 85 wins could win that division, maybe less. I don't see Detroit or Cleveland turning it around anytime soon.

 

This nails it. The real question is how are the Indians and Tigers so terrible?

 

The Indians seem to be a good every other year team for some reason. They were real good in 2005, then fell off the face of the earth in 2006, then came back and won the division in 2007, now are pretty bad in 2008. It's bizarre

[inari]

As good as the White Sox have been, it's just hilarious how badly Buehrle has pitched. Coming into tonight's game his WHIP was almost 1.50. His ERA sits at 5.48 after giving up five runs in the first.

[Soul]

As good as the White Sox have been, it's just hilarious how badly Buehrle has pitched. Coming into tonight's game his WHIP was almost 1.50. His ERA sits at 5.48 after giving up five runs in the first.

 

You're right, that has been shocking. They've been able to cover for it, otherwise there would be a lot more talk about Buerhle's collapse.