Our generation's Koufax retiring at end of season?

[rocket]

Pedro is considering retirement at the end of the season.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3404536

 

It's been said before, but Pedro in his prime is the best pitcher of all-time. And it's not even particularly close.

[Roast]

I really wish i was old enough when he was in his prime to appreciate him.

[shnsajax]

Suddenly I feel very old and a little sleepy.

[RedFlash]

Pedro is considering retirement at the end of the season.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3404536

 

It's been said before, but Pedro in his prime is the best pitcher of all-time. And it's not even particularly close.

 

IDK about that, I would say Greg Maddux was a better pure pitcher then Pedro.

[Sammy Sofa]

I would say you are wrong.

 

Golden era Pedro is just disgustingly better than anything ever.

[Wilson A2000]

I would say you are wrong.

 

Golden era Pedro is just disgustingly better than anything ever.

 

Disgustingly better than anything ever? Have you ever heard of Bob Gibson?

[rocket]

I would say you are wrong.

 

Golden era Pedro is just disgustingly better than anything ever.

 

Disgustingly better than anything ever? Have you ever heard of Bob Gibson?

 

yes. pedro was better.

[SouthSideRyan]

Bob Gibson gave up 1.45 runs per 9 innings in a league that gave up 3.43 runs per game. And that was Gibson's only other-worldly season.

 

Pedro gave up 1.82 runs per 9 innings in a league that gave up 5.3 runs per game.

 

Beyond that, Pedro would have 5 other seasons better than Gibson's 2nd best.

 

Bob Gibson can't touch Pedro on 1 year peak, 3 year peak, 5 year peak, effin career.

 

Pedro's awesome.

[Sammy Sofa]

Bob Gibson gave up 1.45 runs per 9 innings in a league that gave up 3.43 runs per game. And that was Gibson's only other-worldly season.

 

Pedro gave up 1.82 runs per 9 innings in a league that gave up 5.3 runs per game.

 

Beyond that, Pedro would have 5 other seasons better than Gibson's 2nd best.

 

Bob Gibson can't touch Pedro on 1 year peak, 3 year peak, 5 year peak, effin career.

 

Pedro's awesome.

 

QFMFT.

 

Classic Pedro can't be touched. Watching him pitch in those days is the closest I'll ever come to seeing a real life superhero.

Edited May 21, 2008 by Sammy Sofa

[SouthSideRyan]

 

OFMFT.

 

???

[Sammy Sofa]

Motherfudging.

[SouthSideRyan]

I guessed that much O____ F_____ MFing Truth?

[Sammy Sofa]

The "O" tricked me with it's pseudo-Q-ness.

 

God, it's all the way over on the keyboard.

 

I suck.

[SouthSideRyan]

Haha, F + some underscores = Slippery Slope.

[Clem Fandango]

What sucks is that he's still at the age where once elite starters still make quality, serviceable starter on most teams, and for another 5-6 years perhaps, but his arm/shoulder is so jacked that he'll probably never be able to throw effectively again. That blows.

[17 Seconds]

Pedro's numbers in the 2000 season are still unfathomable.

[SABR Gamer]

Career Adjusted ERA+ Leaders:

Minimum of 1000 IP

Rank		  Player (age)			 Adjusted ERA+  Throws
1.		    Pedro Martinez (36)	160				R
2.		    Lefty Grove+* 	     148				L
3.		    Walter Johnson+ 		147				R
4.		    Dan Quisenberry 		146				R
		      Ed Walsh+ 			   146				R
		      Hoyt Wilhelm+ 		  146				R
		      Joe Wood 			    146				R
8.		    Brandon Webb (29)	  145				R
9.		    Roger Clemens 		  143				R
10.		   Jim Devlin 			  142				R
		      Addie Joss+ 		 	142				R
		      Al Spalding+ 			142				R
13.		   Kid Nichols+ 			140				R
		      Johan Santana* (29)	140				L
15.		   Mordecai Brown+ 		138				R
		      Randy Johnson* (44)	138				L
		      Roy Oswalt (30)		 138				R
		      Cy Young+ 			   138				R
19.		   John Franco* 			137				L
20.		   Bruce Sutter+ 		  136				R

 

+ - Indicates Hall of Famer.

* - throws left-handed

 

 

Pedro was sick, and it's not really close, he is the greatest pitcher of all time.

[Jehrico]

Best pitching seasons ever by adjusted ERA+

 

Rank Player (age that year) Adjusted ERA+ Year

1. Tim Keefe+ (23) 294 1880

2. Pedro Martinez (28) 291 2000

3. Dutch Leonard* (22) 279 1914

4. Greg Maddux (28) 271 1994

5. Greg Maddux (29) 262 1995

6. Walter Johnson+ (25) 259 1913

7. Bob Gibson+ (32) 258 1968

8. Mordecai Brown+ (29) 253 1906

9. Pedro Martinez (27) 243 1999

10. Walter Johnson+ (24) 242 1912

11. Christy Mathewson+ (24) 230 1905

12. Dwight Gooden (20) 228 1985

13. Roger Clemens (42) 226 2005

14. Pete Alexander+ (28) 225 1915

15. Christy Mathewson+ (28) 222 1909

16. Roger Clemens (34) 221 1997

17. Denny Driscoll* (26) 220 1882

18t. Lefty Grove+* (31) 219 1931

18t. Pedro Martinez (25) 219 1997

20t. Kevin Brown (31) 216 1996

20t. Jack Pfiester* (29) 216 1907

20t. Cy Young+ (34) 216 1901

23t. Walter Johnson+ (30) 214 1918

23t. Walter Johnson+ (31) 214 1919

25. Roger Clemens (27) 213 1990

26. Carl Lundgren (27) 212 1907

27. Pedro Martinez (31) 210 2003

28. Ed Reulbach (22) 209 1905

29. Ron Guidry* (27) 208 1978

30t. Addie Joss+ (28) 205 1908

30t. Charley Radbourn+ (29) 205 1884

32t. Pedro Martinez (30) 202 2002

32t. Jack Taylor (28) 202 1902

34t. Dolf Luque (32) 201 1923

34t. Billy Pierce* (28) 201 1955

 

That's 5 appearances in the top 32 of all time, with his best at #2. If you are only considering the modern era (cutoff subject to debate of course), we'll use post WWII for discussions sake (yes, that's completely arbitrary), then that's 5 appearances out of the top 14. The list would then look like this:

 

Rank Player (age that year) Adjusted ERA+ Year

1. Pedro Martinez (28) 291 2000

2. Greg Maddux (28) 271 1994

3. Greg Maddux (29) 262 1995

4. Bob Gibson+ (32) 258 1968

5. Pedro Martinez (27) 243 1999

6. Dwight Gooden (20) 228 1985

7. Roger Clemens (42) 226 2005

8. Roger Clemens (34) 221 1997

9. Pedro Martinez (25) 219 1997

10. Kevin Brown (31) 216 1996

11. Roger Clemens (27) 213 1990

12. Pedro Martinez (31) 210 2003

13. Ron Guidry* (27) 208 1978

14. Pedro Martinez (30) 202 2002

15. Billy Pierce* (28) 201 1955

 

 

You could make some arguments that Maddux was as good in his (shorter) peak/prime, or that Walter Johnson should be in the conversation, but it's hard to make an argument that anyone was better than Pedro or as good for as long as he was in his prime. Surprisingly, Koufax doesn't make the list at all. Maybe a better title to this thread would use Walter Johnson's name instead of Koufax.

Edited May 21, 2008 by Jehrico

[Banedon]

Classic Pedro can't be touched. Watching him pitch in those days is the closest I'll ever come to seeing a real life superhero.

 

I thought that about Sammy in his prime, though it's hard to think that way as much anymore.

 

And beyond baseball, MJ was a freaking superhero more than Pedro for me.

[USSoccer]

I can't believe people seriously think Greg Maddux is anywhere near Pedro level.

 

Pedro is like Grey Goose to everyone else's Skol.

[Post Count Padder]

I heard about this. It's time for him to hang em up. In his prime he was untouchable.

[AlwaysaCub]

What about the guy in the thread title, Koufax? He certainly had some seasons even considering his elbow.

[SouthSideRyan]

I can't believe people seriously think Greg Maddux is anywhere near Pedro level.

 

Pedro is like Grey Goose to everyone else's Skol.

 

Maybe not for peak, but Maddux has a whole lot of innings on Pedro to keep him in the career conversation.

[nilodnayr]

You could make some arguments that Maddux was as good in his (shorter) peak/prime, or that Walter Johnson should be in the conversation, but it's hard to make an argument that anyone was better than Pedro or as good for as long as he was in his prime. Surprisingly, Koufax doesn't make the list at all. Maybe a better title to this thread would use Walter Johnson's name instead of Koufax.

 

But the allusion to Koufax is that he was one of the greatests who's career was cut short, not that he was just one of the greatest. Pedro pitched his last full season at age 33, Johnson pitched his at 38.

 

Yowsers, I just noticed that Johnson places #1 of all time in Black Ink and HOF Monitor and #2 in grey ink (behind Cy Young) and HOF Standards (tied with Cy Young, behind Christie Mathewson).

[fiver]

Pedro is like Grey Goose to everyone else's Skol.

 

Grey Goose may not be the best example to use in this instance, because "ultra premium" vodkas such as Goose don't really taste all that different than "premium" vodkas that have been filtered fewer times such as Skol. Pedro is more like super rare The MaCallan 60 yr compared to everyone else's Glenfiddich 12 yer.