Our generation's Koufax retiring at end of season?

[VanceJergins]

ERA+ of 291. Dang. For comparison, Priors 2003 was 178.

[javy knows my name]

Pedro is like Grey Goose to everyone else's Skol.

 

Grey Goose may not be the best example to use in this instance, because "ultra premium" vodkas such as Goose don't really taste all that different than "premium" vodkas that have been filtered fewer times such as Skol. Pedro is more like super rare The MaCallan 60 yr compared to everyone else's Glenfiddich 12 yer.

Maybe he's not a scotch guy

[EhDubya]

So hypothetically, if Pedro, Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Schilling, and Johnson all retire at the end of this year, who gets in on the first ballot when their HOF eligibility kicks in?

[jersey cubs fan]

So hypothetically, if Pedro, Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Schilling, and Johnson all retire at the end of this year, who gets in on the first ballot when their HOF eligibility kicks in?

 

Depends on the writers mood, but I'd guess Maddux, Pedro and Randy go first, and the other three are held back so as not to "dishonor" the first ballot HOF thing.

[rocket]

So hypothetically, if Pedro, Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Schilling, and Johnson all retire at the end of this year, who gets in on the first ballot when their HOF eligibility kicks in?

 

maddux, glavine, and johnson are 100% 1st ballot no question. the other 3 probably get in a year or 2 later. though it's a crime if any of them (with the possible exception of schilling) don't make it right away.

[jersey cubs fan]

So hypothetically, if Pedro, Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Schilling, and Johnson all retire at the end of this year, who gets in on the first ballot when their HOF eligibility kicks in?

 

maddux, glavine, and johnson are 100% 1st ballot no question. the other 3 probably get in a year or 2 later. though it's a crime if any of them (with the possible exception of schilling) don't make it right away.

 

I don't see how Glavine ranks ahead of the others. He's not in Maddux's or the Unit's class.

[daske17]

So hypothetically, if Pedro, Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Schilling, and Johnson all retire at the end of this year, who gets in on the first ballot when their HOF eligibility kicks in?

 

maddux, glavine, and johnson are 100% 1st ballot no question. the other 3 probably get in a year or 2 later. though it's a crime if any of them (with the possible exception of schilling) don't make it right away.

 

I don't see how Glavine ranks ahead of the others. He's not in Maddux's or the Unit's class.

 

For HOF voters, 300 wins is like catnip. I agree with Rocket's prediction.

[rocket]

So hypothetically, if Pedro, Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Schilling, and Johnson all retire at the end of this year, who gets in on the first ballot when their HOF eligibility kicks in?

 

maddux, glavine, and johnson are 100% 1st ballot no question. the other 3 probably get in a year or 2 later. though it's a crime if any of them (with the possible exception of schilling) don't make it right away.

 

I don't see how Glavine ranks ahead of the others. He's not in Maddux's or the Unit's class.

 

i agree. but 300 wins = first ballot in the minds of sportswriters.

[Banedon]

There's no way that the east coast media doesn't put Curt "Bloody Sock" Schilling in on the first ballot.

[17 Seconds]

A 291 ERA+ just makes me laugh.

[chuckywang]

So hypothetically, if Pedro, Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Schilling, and Johnson all retire at the end of this year, who gets in on the first ballot when their HOF eligibility kicks in?

 

maddux, glavine, and johnson are 100% 1st ballot no question. the other 3 probably get in a year or 2 later. though it's a crime if any of them (with the possible exception of schilling) don't make it right away.

 

I don't see how Glavine ranks ahead of the others. He's not in Maddux's or the Unit's class.

 

i agree. but 300 wins = first ballot in the minds of sportswriters.

 

If that's the case, then sportswriters are very narrow-minded. Don't they realize that a pitcher's W/L record is mostly out of their control?

[BCVM22]

Don't they realize that a pitcher's W/L record is mostly out of their control?

 

Not typically, no. It's not coincidence that the BBWAA was headed by a Schmuck for a year.

[SouthSideRyan]

So hypothetically, if Pedro, Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Schilling, and Johnson all retire at the end of this year, who gets in on the first ballot when their HOF eligibility kicks in?

 

maddux, glavine, and johnson are 100% 1st ballot no question. the other 3 probably get in a year or 2 later. though it's a crime if any of them (with the possible exception of schilling) don't make it right away.

 

I don't see how Glavine ranks ahead of the others. He's not in Maddux's or the Unit's class.

 

i agree. but 300 wins = first ballot in the minds of sportswriters.

 

300 wins = auto-induction, it doesn't = first ballot.

[jersey cubs fan]

So hypothetically, if Pedro, Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Schilling, and Johnson all retire at the end of this year, who gets in on the first ballot when their HOF eligibility kicks in?

 

maddux, glavine, and johnson are 100% 1st ballot no question. the other 3 probably get in a year or 2 later. though it's a crime if any of them (with the possible exception of schilling) don't make it right away.

 

I don't see how Glavine ranks ahead of the others. He's not in Maddux's or the Unit's class.

 

i agree. but 300 wins = first ballot in the minds of sportswriters.

 

300 wins = auto-induction, it doesn't = first ballot.

 

Yeah, that's my point. The voters have a thing for making guys wait. I think they will put in Maddux first ballot no doubt. I also think Johnson will get that honor. It's possible they could give most of those guys first ballot treatment, but I feel there will be enough writers who want to give Maddux his due by making his ATL teammates wait.

[rocket]

So hypothetically, if Pedro, Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Schilling, and Johnson all retire at the end of this year, who gets in on the first ballot when their HOF eligibility kicks in?

 

maddux, glavine, and johnson are 100% 1st ballot no question. the other 3 probably get in a year or 2 later. though it's a crime if any of them (with the possible exception of schilling) don't make it right away.

 

I don't see how Glavine ranks ahead of the others. He's not in Maddux's or the Unit's class.

 

i agree. but 300 wins = first ballot in the minds of sportswriters.

 

300 wins = auto-induction, it doesn't = first ballot.

 

i guess we'll see in 5-6 years. plus, i think a lot of sportswriters will get a kick out of putting glavine and maddux in at the same time if the opportunity arises.

[Guest]

So hypothetically, if Pedro, Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Schilling, and Johnson all retire at the end of this year, who gets in on the first ballot when their HOF eligibility kicks in?

 

maddux, glavine, and johnson are 100% 1st ballot no question. the other 3 probably get in a year or 2 later. though it's a crime if any of them (with the possible exception of schilling) don't make it right away.

 

I don't see how Glavine ranks ahead of the others. He's not in Maddux's or the Unit's class.

 

i agree. but 300 wins = first ballot in the minds of sportswriters.

 

If that's the case, then sportswriters are very narrow-minded. Don't they realize that a pitcher's W/L record is mostly out of their control?

 

Generally speaking it's going to even out over the course of a guy's career. I completely agree on not judging how good a player is over a single season by how many wins he got but if a player gets or approaches 300 wins, in this day and age, he's at least a good pitcher. You don't luck into getting 15-20 wins per year for 15+ years. One or two years, sure, but not for a career. Obviously there are better measures for evaluating how good a pitcher was but with 250-300 wins, I don't think you can just dismiss that like you can for a single season.

[jersey cubs fan]

So hypothetically, if Pedro, Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Schilling, and Johnson all retire at the end of this year, who gets in on the first ballot when their HOF eligibility kicks in?

 

maddux, glavine, and johnson are 100% 1st ballot no question. the other 3 probably get in a year or 2 later. though it's a crime if any of them (with the possible exception of schilling) don't make it right away.

 

I don't see how Glavine ranks ahead of the others. He's not in Maddux's or the Unit's class.

 

i agree. but 300 wins = first ballot in the minds of sportswriters.

 

If that's the case, then sportswriters are very narrow-minded. Don't they realize that a pitcher's W/L record is mostly out of their control?

 

Generally speaking it's going to even out over the course of a guy's career. I completely agree on not judging how good a player is over a single season by how many wins he got but if a player gets or approaches 300 wins, in this day and age, he's at least a good pitcher. You don't luck into getting 15-20 wins per year for 15+ years. One or two years, sure, but not for a career. Obviously there are better measures for evaluating how good a pitcher was but with 250-300 wins, I don't think you can just dismiss that like you can for a single season.

 

What if he loses 290?

 

It's just a pet peeve of mine that not only do people overemphasize W/L record, but they always refer to pitchers by how many wins they are capable of in a season, while ignoring the losses. A 15 game winner is a 15 game winner whether he went 15-16 or 15-6. A record of 16-14 is given more respect than somebody who only wins 11 but goes 11-3. It makes no sense.

[CubinNY]

Schilling might get in but it is no sure thing. He's been a dick to the baseball writers for most of his entire career. Also, his peers don't much care for him either.

 

If Pedro, Johnson, Maddux, Glavin, and Piazza (already retired) all retire after this year, it will be one helluva class.

 

Bagwell and Bigeo (sp?) better hope they get in on the first ballot or it may be a few years before they get in. Sosa and Clemens may have to wait a long time too.

 

It will be real interesting to see how the baseball writers handle the steroid era.

[CuseCubFan69]

So hypothetically, if Pedro, Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Schilling, and Johnson all retire at the end of this year, who gets in on the first ballot when their HOF eligibility kicks in?

 

maddux, glavine, and johnson are 100% 1st ballot no question. the other 3 probably get in a year or 2 later. though it's a crime if any of them (with the possible exception of schilling) don't make it right away.

 

I don't see how Glavine ranks ahead of the others. He's not in Maddux's or the Unit's class.

 

i agree. but 300 wins = first ballot in the minds of sportswriters.

 

If that's the case, then sportswriters are very narrow-minded. Don't they realize that a pitcher's W/L record is mostly out of their control?

 

Generally speaking it's going to even out over the course of a guy's career. I completely agree on not judging how good a player is over a single season by how many wins he got but if a player gets or approaches 300 wins, in this day and age, he's at least a good pitcher. You don't luck into getting 15-20 wins per year for 15+ years. One or two years, sure, but not for a career. Obviously there are better measures for evaluating how good a pitcher was but with 250-300 wins, I don't think you can just dismiss that like you can for a single season.

 

What if he loses 290?

 

It's just a pet peeve of mine that not only do people overemphasize W/L record, but they always refer to pitchers by how many wins they are capable of in a season, while ignoring the losses. A 15 game winner is a 15 game winner whether he went 15-16 or 15-6. A record of 16-14 is given more respect than somebody who only wins 11 but goes 11-3. It makes no sense.

 

 

Look at Nolan Ryan, he's a pretty decent example of a pitcher who had nice numbers but not so nice on the win percentage thing.

[shnsajax]

So hypothetically, if Pedro, Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Schilling, and Johnson all retire at the end of this year, who gets in on the first ballot when their HOF eligibility kicks in?

 

maddux, glavine, and johnson are 100% 1st ballot no question. the other 3 probably get in a year or 2 later. though it's a crime if any of them (with the possible exception of schilling) don't make it right away.

 

I don't see how Glavine ranks ahead of the others. He's not in Maddux's or the Unit's class.

 

i agree. but 300 wins = first ballot in the minds of sportswriters.

 

If that's the case, then sportswriters are very narrow-minded. Don't they realize that a pitcher's W/L record is mostly out of their control?

 

Generally speaking it's going to even out over the course of a guy's career. I completely agree on not judging how good a player is over a single season by how many wins he got but if a player gets or approaches 300 wins, in this day and age, he's at least a good pitcher. You don't luck into getting 15-20 wins per year for 15+ years. One or two years, sure, but not for a career. Obviously there are better measures for evaluating how good a pitcher was but with 250-300 wins, I don't think you can just dismiss that like you can for a single season.

 

What if he loses 290?

 

It's just a pet peeve of mine that not only do people overemphasize W/L record, but they always refer to pitchers by how many wins they are capable of in a season, while ignoring the losses. A 15 game winner is a 15 game winner whether he went 15-16 or 15-6. A record of 16-14 is given more respect than somebody who only wins 11 but goes 11-3. It makes no sense.

 

 

Look at Nolan Ryan, he's a pretty decent example of a pitcher who had nice numbers but not so nice on the win percentage thing.

 

Who was the last pitcher to throw 300+ innings? I really don't know, looking at Ryan's stats in the 70's and throwing as many innings as he did loses back then are different than they are now. From 72-79 he had 156 Complete Games out of 288 starts and avg. 7.1 innings per start.

[jersey cubs fan]

looking at Ryan's stats in the 70's and throwing as many innings as he did loses back then are different than they are now.

 

What does that mean?

[NCCubFan]

Schilling might get in but it is no sure thing.

I think it's absolutely a sure thing he gets in. What isn't a sure thing is whether it's on the first ballot.

[CubinNY]

Schilling might get in but it is no sure thing.

I think it's absolutely a sure thing he gets in. What isn't a sure thing is whether it's on the first ballot.

No way. He doesn't have the numbers and baseball writers have an extremely long memory. See Santo, Ron.

W        L       ERA     200+ IP
216      146   3.46     9

 

The only thing he's done that is HOF worthy is keep the walks and HRs (for the most par) down.

 

I'd love to hear Bruce Miles opinion on this.

[Jehrico]

Schilling might get in but it is no sure thing.

I think it's absolutely a sure thing he gets in. What isn't a sure thing is whether it's on the first ballot.

No way. He doesn't have the numbers and baseball writers have an extremely long memory. See Santo, Ron.

W        L       ERA     200+ IP
216      146   3.46     9

 

The only thing he's done that is HOF worthy is keep the walks and HRs (for the most par) down.

 

I'd love to hear Bruce Miles opinion on this.

The main thing keeping Santo out is the lack of postseason success. Schilling has that with more than one club, and is the hero in one of those. He'll get in, partially for the right reasons, partially for the wrong reasons.

[rocket]

Schilling might get in but it is no sure thing.

I think it's absolutely a sure thing he gets in. What isn't a sure thing is whether it's on the first ballot.

No way. He doesn't have the numbers and baseball writers have an extremely long memory. See Santo, Ron.

W        L       ERA     200+ IP
216      146   3.46     9

 

The only thing he's done that is HOF worthy is keep the walks and HRs (for the most par) down.

 

I'd love to hear Bruce Miles opinion on this.

 

sportswriters love postseason success. they think that's very important.

 

 Year   Round Tm  Opp WLser  G   GS   ERA   W  L SV CG   IP   H   ER  BB  SO
+------+-----+---+---+-----+---+---+------+--+--+--+--+-----+---+---+---+---+
1993   NLCS  PHI ATL     W   2   2   1.69  0  0  0  0  16    11   3   5  19 
       WS    PHI TOR     L   2   2   3.52  1  1  0  1  15.1  13   6   5   9 
2001   NLDS  ARI STL     W   2   2   0.50  2  0  0  2  18     9   1   2  18 
       NLCS  ARI ATL     W   1   1   1.00  1  0  0  1   9     4   1   2  12 
       WS    ARI NYY     W   3   3   1.69  1  0  0  0  21.1  12   4   2  26 
2002   NLDS  ARI STL     L   1   1   1.29  0  0  0  0   7     7   1   1   7 
2004   ALDS  BOS ANA     W   1   1   2.70  1  0  0  0   6.2   9   2   2   4 
       ALCS  BOS NYY     W   2   2   6.30  1  1  0  0  10    10   7   2   5 
       WS    BOS STL     W   1   1   0.00  1  0  0  0   6     4   0   1   4 
2007   ALDS  BOS LAA     W   1   1   0.00  1  0  0  0   7     6   0   1   4 
       ALCS  BOS CLE     W   2   2   5.40  1  0  0  0  11.2  15   7   0   8 
       WS    BOS COL     W   1   1   1.69  1  0  0  0   5.1   4   1   2   4 
+------+-----+---+---+-----+---+---+------+--+--+--+--+-----+---+---+---+---+
 4 Lg Div Series       3-1   5   5   0.93  4  0  0  2  38.2  31   4   6  33 
 4 Lg Champ Series     4-0   7   7   3.47  3  1  0  1  46.2  40  18   9  44 
 4 World Series        3-1   7   7   2.06  4  1  0  1  48    33  11  10  43 
12 Postseason Ser     10-2  19  19   2.23 11  2  0  4 133.1 104  33  25 120 
+--------------------+-----+---+---+------+--+--+--+--+-----+---+---+---+---+