Our generation's Koufax retiring at end of season?

[SweetZombieJesus]

So hypothetically, if Pedro, Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Schilling, and Johnson all retire at the end of this year, who gets in on the first ballot when their HOF eligibility kicks in?

 

maddux, glavine, and johnson are 100% 1st ballot no question. the other 3 probably get in a year or 2 later. though it's a crime if any of them (with the possible exception of schilling) don't make it right away.

 

I don't see how Glavine ranks ahead of the others. He's not in Maddux's or the Unit's class.

 

i agree. but 300 wins = first ballot in the minds of sportswriters.

 

If that's the case, then sportswriters are very narrow-minded. Don't they realize that a pitcher's W/L record is mostly out of their control?

 

Generally speaking it's going to even out over the course of a guy's career. I completely agree on not judging how good a player is over a single season by how many wins he got but if a player gets or approaches 300 wins, in this day and age, he's at least a good pitcher. You don't luck into getting 15-20 wins per year for 15+ years. One or two years, sure, but not for a career. Obviously there are better measures for evaluating how good a pitcher was but with 250-300 wins, I don't think you can just dismiss that like you can for a single season.

 

What if he loses 290?

 

It's just a pet peeve of mine that not only do people overemphasize W/L record, but they always refer to pitchers by how many wins they are capable of in a season, while ignoring the losses. A 15 game winner is a 15 game winner whether he went 15-16 or 15-6. A record of 16-14 is given more respect than somebody who only wins 11 but goes 11-3. It makes no sense.

 

How many pitchers have 290 or more losses?

 

Even if said pitcher goes .500 in a career 600 decisions is a absolute ton in this era when 30-35 starts a year are the norm.

[UK1679666180]

Pedro on David Price:

 

http://tampabay.rays.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080528&content_id=2791307&vkey=news_tb&fext=.jsp&c_id=tb

"He's amazing, that kid. He's amazing," Martinez said. "That kid is very mature for his time in [the pros], and very talented.

 

"Oh my God. God bless him and keep him healthy."

 

 

"That kid did a hell of a job of throwing first-pitch strikes and pounding the strike zone and jamming hitters," Martinez said. "I was watching that. He did it like a big leaguer. He had such a command. Right there, I'm challenging you. I'm going to do what I gotta do without any fear. That's the kind of talent you love to see."

 

"Wow," Martinez said when he found out Price has only made one previous start since being drafted. "He's a big lefty with superb talent. At that age, I don't think I was like that. He seems far superior."

[champaignchris]

4. Dan Quisenberry 146 R

 

I just had to highlite that because after Santo, Quisenberry is my pet "veterans committee really should put that guy in the HoF" candidate. He had a 5-year run in KC that was just unbelievable.

[fromthestretch]

4. Dan Quisenberry 146 R

 

I just had to highlite that because after Santo, Quisenberry is my pet "veterans committee really should put that guy in the HoF" candidate. He had a 5-year run in KC that was just unbelievable.

 

And he did it with an insanely low strikeout rate of 3.3 K/9 IP for his career.

[SouthSideRyan]

4. Dan Quisenberry 146 R

 

I just had to highlite that because after Santo, Quisenberry is my pet "veterans committee really should put that guy in the HoF" candidate. He had a 5-year run in KC that was just unbelievable.

 

Mine's gonna wind up being Tim Raines and Alan Trammel.

[CubinNY]

Schilling might get in but it is no sure thing.

I think it's absolutely a sure thing he gets in. What isn't a sure thing is whether it's on the first ballot.

No way. He doesn't have the numbers and baseball writers have an extremely long memory. See Santo, Ron.

W        L       ERA     200+ IP
216      146   3.46     9

 

The only thing he's done that is HOF worthy is keep the walks and HRs (for the most par) down.

 

I'd love to hear Bruce Miles opinion on this.

 

sportswriters love postseason success. they think that's very important.

 

 Year   Round Tm  Opp WLser  G   GS   ERA   W  L SV CG   IP   H   ER  BB  SO
+------+-----+---+---+-----+---+---+------+--+--+--+--+-----+---+---+---+---+
1993   NLCS  PHI ATL     W   2   2   1.69  0  0  0  0  16    11   3   5  19 
       WS    PHI TOR     L   2   2   3.52  1  1  0  1  15.1  13   6   5   9 
2001   NLDS  ARI STL     W   2   2   0.50  2  0  0  2  18     9   1   2  18 
       NLCS  ARI ATL     W   1   1   1.00  1  0  0  1   9     4   1   2  12 
       WS    ARI NYY     W   3   3   1.69  1  0  0  0  21.1  12   4   2  26 
2002   NLDS  ARI STL     L   1   1   1.29  0  0  0  0   7     7   1   1   7 
2004   ALDS  BOS ANA     W   1   1   2.70  1  0  0  0   6.2   9   2   2   4 
       ALCS  BOS NYY     W   2   2   6.30  1  1  0  0  10    10   7   2   5 
       WS    BOS STL     W   1   1   0.00  1  0  0  0   6     4   0   1   4 
2007   ALDS  BOS LAA     W   1   1   0.00  1  0  0  0   7     6   0   1   4 
       ALCS  BOS CLE     W   2   2   5.40  1  0  0  0  11.2  15   7   0   8 
       WS    BOS COL     W   1   1   1.69  1  0  0  0   5.1   4   1   2   4 
+------+-----+---+---+-----+---+---+------+--+--+--+--+-----+---+---+---+---+
 4 Lg Div Series       3-1   5   5   0.93  4  0  0  2  38.2  31   4   6  33 
 4 Lg Champ Series     4-0   7   7   3.47  3  1  0  1  46.2  40  18   9  44 
 4 World Series        3-1   7   7   2.06  4  1  0  1  48    33  11  10  43 
12 Postseason Ser     10-2  19  19   2.23 11  2  0  4 133.1 104  33  25 120 
+--------------------+-----+---+---+------+--+--+--+--+-----+---+---+---+---+

The post season won't matter with his record in the regular season and his attitude. If he gets in it will be several years down the road.

[Balsa]

So hypothetically, if Pedro, Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Schilling, and Johnson all retire at the end of this year, who gets in on the first ballot when their HOF eligibility kicks in?

No question in my mind that Pedro, Maddux, Smoltz, and Johnson all get in right away. And come to think of it, if they put in Maddux and Smoltz at the same time, they'll probably throw in Glavine too so they can all have one big happy ceremony.

[Coach C]

4. Dan Quisenberry 146 R

 

I just had to highlite that because after Santo, Quisenberry is my pet "veterans committee really should put that guy in the HoF" candidate. He had a 5-year run in KC that was just unbelievable.

 

And he did it with an insanely low strikeout rate of 3.3 K/9 IP for his career.

 

It is a damn shame that he isn't the hall. His numbers was off the charts in the 80's, outside of 81 when the strike occured. 82 to 84, he was nearly automatic. And he wasn't a highly touted prospect to begin with.

[mcgoobs]

So hypothetically, if Pedro, Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Schilling, and Johnson all retire at the end of this year, who gets in on the first ballot when their HOF eligibility kicks in?

No question in my mind that Pedro, Maddux, Smoltz, and Johnson all get in right away. And come to think of it, if they put in Maddux and Smoltz at the same time, they'll probably throw in Glavine too so they can all have one big happy ceremony.

 

I'm not sure Smoltz is a guarantee to get in, regardless of the year.

[fromthestretch]

I'm not sure Smoltz is a guarantee to get in, regardless of the year.

 

210-147 career record

154 saves

127 ERA+ (that puts him in the top 50 all-time)

1.17 WHIP

7.98 K/9 (23rd all time)

3011 career strikeouts (16th all time)

One Cy Young award

 

If you think his numbers are borderline HoF, ok. However, when you factor in his postseason numbers, (15-4, four saves, 2.65 ERA in 207 IP), I think he definitely gets in.

[CubinNY]

I'm not sure Smoltz is a guarantee to get in, regardless of the year.

 

210-147 career record

154 saves

127 ERA+ (that puts him in the top 50 all-time)

1.17 WHIP

7.98 K/9 (23rd all time)

3011 career strikeouts (16th all time)

One Cy Young award

 

If you think his numbers are borderline HoF, ok. However, when you factor in his postseason numbers, (15-4, four saves, 2.65 ERA in 207 IP), I think he definitely gets in.

The thing that will help Smoltz is the 200 wins and 150 saves, only Eckersley has similar numbers (20 win season and a 50 save season) and he's in the HOF.