Lou Pinella, What the hell are you doing?

[Donzo1679666396]

He's got a career 52 OPS+. He's fun for a hitting pitcher, but he is that much worse than the bench guys.

 

Career? How is that relevant?....Magic & Jabar had great careers for the Lakers, how much help would they have been tonight?

 

For relevant, how's Zambrano's ops+ this year?

[CubColtPacer]

Burning Hoff like that in a tight game was dumb-dumb-dumb.

 

Agreed. That's the move I couldn't understand. 2 outs and nobody on is not a good time to be burning a player.

 

I would have left Z in against Hudson. As soon as Hudson was lifted for the relief pitcher, I would have gone to Hoffpauir, but I don't mind that he left Z in. He has been hot for quite a while (remember even with his gaudy statistics now, he started the season quite badly with the bat before becoming red-hot) and I think Lou was trying to get another inning out of him if he could be effective during that inning.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

He's got a career 52 OPS+. He's fun for a hitting pitcher, but he is that much worse than the bench guys.

 

Career? How is that relevant?....Magic & Jabar had great careers for the Lakers, how much help would they have been tonight?

 

For relevant, how's Zambrano's ops+ this year?

 

With a pitcher who doesn't get very many at bats over the course of the season, it's very relevant. Zambrano has less than 50 plate appearances this year, that's not sample enough to tell anything, especially when he's got 400+ PA's of being a terible hitter prior to 2008.

[Choonch]

Where to start with today's game?

 

I'll start with: The Cubs won a really exciting game.

 

Yes, they did. But, that doesn't mean that Lou didn't make several more dumb decisions.

[Donzo1679666396]

He's got a career 52 OPS+. He's fun for a hitting pitcher, but he is that much worse than the bench guys.

 

Career? How is that relevant?....Magic & Jabar had great careers for the Lakers, how much help would they have been tonight?

 

For relevant, how's Zambrano's ops+ this year?

 

With a pitcher who doesn't get very many at bats over the course of the season, it's very relevant. Zambrano has less than 50 plate appearances this year, that's not sample enough to tell anything, especially when he's got 400+ PA's of being a terible hitter prior to 2008.

 

 

I don't see What Zambrano did as a hitter from 2001-2007 mattered in that at-bat yesterday-- I do see what Zambrano is doing as a hitter in 2008 mattered.... Zambrano's limited at-bats this year doesn't "tell anything"- really?

 

If career numbers mattered more than numbers from this year, why did a lot of Cub fans think Edmonds would stink for the Cubs?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

He's got a career 52 OPS+. He's fun for a hitting pitcher, but he is that much worse than the bench guys.

 

Career? How is that relevant?....Magic & Jabar had great careers for the Lakers, how much help would they have been tonight?

 

For relevant, how's Zambrano's ops+ this year?

 

With a pitcher who doesn't get very many at bats over the course of the season, it's very relevant. Zambrano has less than 50 plate appearances this year, that's not sample enough to tell anything, especially when he's got 400+ PA's of being a terible hitter prior to 2008.

 

 

I don't see What Zambrano did as a hitter from 2001-2007 mattered in that at-bat yesterday-- I do see what Zambrano is doing as a hitter in 2008 mattered.... Zambrano's limited at-bats this year doesn't "tell anything"- really?

 

If career numbers mattered more than numbers from this year, why did a lot of Cub fans think Edmonds would stink for the Cubs?

 

A sub-50 PA sample has no predictive value, especially when it's running completely counter to the previous 400+ PA's.

 

People didn't want Edmonds because he showed through the last 4 years(two THOUSAND PA's) that he was trending downward, and his small sample from this year was more of the same.

 

Even outside the numbers it doesn't make sense. Carlos doesn't have a very pretty swing, he's just a very good athlete(enabling him to make contact) who swings as hard as he can every time he's up there.

[fromthestretch]

He's got a career 52 OPS+. He's fun for a hitting pitcher, but he is that much worse than the bench guys.

 

Career? How is that relevant?....Magic & Jabar had great careers for the Lakers, how much help would they have been tonight?

 

For relevant, how's Zambrano's ops+ this year?

 

With a pitcher who doesn't get very many at bats over the course of the season, it's very relevant. Zambrano has less than 50 plate appearances this year, that's not sample enough to tell anything, especially when he's got 400+ PA's of being a terible hitter prior to 2008.

 

 

I don't see What Zambrano did as a hitter from 2001-2007 mattered in that at-bat yesterday-- I do see what Zambrano is doing as a hitter in 2008 mattered.... Zambrano's limited at-bats this year doesn't "tell anything"- really?

 

If career numbers mattered more than numbers from this year, why did a lot of Cub fans think Edmonds would stink for the Cubs?

 

A sub-50 PA sample has no predictive value, especially when it's running completely counter to the previous 400+ PA's.

 

People didn't want Edmonds because he showed through the last 4 years(two THOUSAND PA's) that he was trending downward, and his small sample from this year was more of the same.

 

Even outside the numbers it doesn't make sense. Carlos doesn't have a very pretty swing, he's just a very good athlete(enabling him to make contact) who swings as hard as he can every time he's up there.

 

Agree 100%.

 

Not only has Edmonds been trending downward, but he's also 38 years old. That reduces the chances that he was going to return to his peak production.

 

Carlos is the same hitter he's been throughout his career. He fans in roughly 1/3 of his at-bats, chasing bad pitches and rarely walking. Even with his power, a good pitcher can get him out by keeping the ball down and away. If you want to know how to pitch to Zambrano, go back and watch the 5/28 game against the Dodgers. Lowe pitched him perfectly.

 

The best option yesterday would have been to pinch hit for him.

[Donzo1679666396]

A sub-50 PA sample has no predictive value, especially when it's running completely counter to the previous 400+ PA's.

 

No, it's not completely counter to the previous 400+ PA's.... I don't know all of Zambrano's stats, but I know he hit .300 one year-- he hit around .250 last year & he's hitting around .350 this year.

 

If you want a bigger sample size, what's Zambrano's avage the last two seasons?!? Probably around .280-.290.... That's gotta be relevant.

 

Lou is good at puting players in position to succeed. If he thought Zambrano hitting in that spot was the thing to do, there's reason for that thought.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

A sub-50 PA sample has no predictive value, especially when it's running completely counter to the previous 400+ PA's.

 

No, it's not completely counter to the previous 400+ PA's.... I don't know all of Zambrano's stats, but I know he hit .300 one year-- he hit around .250 last year & he's hitting around .350 this year.

 

If you want a bigger sample size, what's Zambrano's avage the last two seasons?!? Probably around .280-.290.... That's gotta be relevant.

 

Lou is good at puting players in position to succeed. If he thought Zambrano hitting in that spot was the thing to do, there's reason for that thought.

 

Looking at strictly batting average isn't really the best way go about it, but Zambrano is a career .234 hitter(.241 OBP) that hit .247(.247 OBP) last year and .151(.160 OBP) the year before.

[jersey cubs fan]

A sub-50 PA sample has no predictive value, especially when it's running completely counter to the previous 400+ PA's.

 

No, it's not completely counter to the previous 400+ PA's.... I don't know all of Zambrano's stats, but I know he hit .300 one year-- he hit around .250 last year & he's hitting around .350 this year.

 

If you want a bigger sample size, what's Zambrano's avage the last two seasons?!? Probably around .280-.290.... That's gotta be relevant.

 

Lou is good at puting players in position to succeed. If he thought Zambrano hitting in that spot was the thing to do, there's reason for that thought.

 

Looking at strictly batting average isn't really the best way go about it, but Zambrano is a career .234 hitter(.241 OBP) that hit .247(.247 OBP) last year and .151(.160 OBP) the year before.

 

Yeah, but it seemed like he hit much higher and Lou must have had a good reason so you shouldn't question it.

[Donzo1679666396]

Looking at strictly batting average isn't really the best way go about it, but Zambrano is a career .234 hitter(.241 OBP) that hit .247(.247 OBP) last year and .151(.160 OBP) the year before.

As pointed out with Edmonds, career batting average is not indicative of what kind of hitter Zambrano is today. And where Edmonds is in a down trend at the end of his career, Zambrano is in an up trend in the prime of his career.... Going by the stats you posted, Zambrano raised his average .100 in 07 from 06, and as of now he's raised his average another .100 in 08 from 07.... Again, in an uptrend, he's hitting right around .290 the last two seasons.

[brinoch]

Except that Zambrano, for all his athleticism, is a pitcher. And most assuredly not a professional hitter.

[Donzo1679666396]

 

Lou must have had a good reason so you shouldn't question it.

Why's that?... You, or anyone else, can bellyache & whine about Piniella all you like.

 

I had no sense of what Zambrano's career batting average is.... I just know he's now hitting much better than the posted career stats.

[TruffleShuffle]

:x

[Hairyducked Idiot]

 

Lou must have had a good reason so you shouldn't question it.

Why's that?... You, or anyone else, can bellyache & whine about Piniella all you like.

 

I had no sense of what Zambrano's career batting average is.... I just know he's now hitting much better than the posted career stats.

 

He's hit better in a very small number of at-bats. Predicting that a player will perform well in his current at-bat because of his last 30 is a bad way to predict, and you'll be wrong more often than right (as Piniella was).

[fromthestretch]

Looking at strictly batting average isn't really the best way go about it, but Zambrano is a career .234 hitter(.241 OBP) that hit .247(.247 OBP) last year and .151(.160 OBP) the year before.

As pointed out with Edmonds, career batting average is not indicative of what kind of hitter Zambrano is today. And where Edmonds is in a down trend at the end of his career, Zambrano is in an up trend in the prime of his career.... Going by the stats you posted, Zambrano raised his average .100 in 07 from 06, and as of now he's raised his average another .100 in 08 from 07.... Again, in an uptrend, he's hitting right around .290 the last two seasons.

 

Zambrano's BABIP this season is .516. He's not going to sustain that. His approach at the plate isn't the greatest. He's a pitcher first and foremost, and any offense they get out of him is a bonus. Using him to pinch hit in extra innings when you're out of bench players is one thing. It's another to count on him for the big hit with two outs.

[abuck1220]

the eighth inning substitutions last night were a clusterf.

[David]

Looking at strictly batting average isn't really the best way go about it, but Zambrano is a career .234 hitter(.241 OBP) that hit .247(.247 OBP) last year and .151(.160 OBP) the year before.

As pointed out with Edmonds, career batting average is not indicative of what kind of hitter Zambrano is today. And where Edmonds is in a down trend at the end of his career, Zambrano is in an up trend in the prime of his career.... Going by the stats you posted, Zambrano raised his average .100 in 07 from 06, and as of now he's raised his average another .100 in 08 from 07.... Again, in an uptrend, he's hitting right around .290 the last two seasons.

 

 

You are either trolling or you REALLY have not a semblance of an idea of what you are talking about.

[Keener98]

Marmol, AGAIN, Lou. Its 6-0 in the 8th inning you have some room to play, no reason to bring Marmol in you jackass

[SouthSideRyan]

I woulda stuck with Marquis, DeRosa shoulda caught that line drive, he wasn't getting rocked, and his pitch count was low.

 

Wasting Marmol here was pretty dumb.

[ChiCubsfan0502]

I'm not trying to call certain posters out for being oblivious, so please don't take it that way when you read this. I do think that some of the posters here need to pay better attention to: "game situations". I thought Lou absolutely made the right move by bringing Marmol in today.

 

The bases were loaded with NO OUTS. Had the Jays put a few more hits together, the tying run then comes to the plate. So while the score was 6-0, you really have to look at it as a big inning shaping up. Lou made the change, Marmol comes in and the inning was basically put to sleep.

 

Sorry, Lou made the right move today and as another poster said, Marmol was quite rested.

[SouthSideRyan]

So your basis is if somebody else pitched that inning, AND gave up a few more hits, then the Blue Jays would've been a grand slam away from tying the game?

 

I'll take my chances.

[mikec9971]

Yeah, Lou has no idea what he's doing. Thats why they have the best record in baseball.

[Mark_R]

Yeah, Lou has no idea what he's doing. Thats why they have the best record in baseball.

 

His managing the last few days left a lot to be desired.

 

The Cubs were 5 outs away from a World Series in 2003, does that mean that Dusty Baker was a good manager?

[Cubs Fan In New York]

I don't see the big deal. Marmol hasn't pitched that much recently to begin with and the bases were loaded with no outs. Marquis gave up 3 straight hits and got nobody out, so taking him out seemed like a smart choice. Whenever Lou TRIES to give Carlos/Kerry a rest, the person he puts in proceeds to make a disaster of the inning. I don't recall who was on first, but a double could have made it a 3 run game. Lou defused the situation and a bases loaded no out situation turned into 1 run and inning over.