Donzo1679666396

If you would, refresh my memory on this?

You realy think it will be a "few years"?... I don't see 2014 as suck.

Well, it is what it is. Unless Theo had Harry’s magic wand, how were the Cubs gonna win in 2012? & I guess it depends on what your definition of winning is. Do you want to spend your assets on a team that has to eek into the playoffs & hope to luck out, or do you want a team built to be a perennial contender? That’s an easy question for me… Nevertheless, I don’t think much will make you happy. You’re gonna be bellyaching about most things anyway.

That’s the thing, right now you don’t buy elite pitching & hitting, you develop it. “Dumpster diving” isn’t the long term plan, it’s just perfect for right now.

I’m surprised at the miserable tone in this thread… You guys are usually better than that here. For Sanchez, the Cubs got out bid- so what?... Were they suppose to top 5/$80M? That would have been nuts. IMO, I’m glad he didn’t sign the Cubs offer. Did y’all really want him on the books in 2016 & 2017 for $$16M per?--- awful. I really like these one & two year deals at this point…If a player flops, so what; if a player excels, then you have an asset- nice! On the miserable mojo by a lot of the posters here- myopic much?!?… For last year, it was what it was, 2012 was going to be a mess regardless. What did it matter if the Cubs lost 91 games or 101 game- same difference. The Cubs traded some middling assets for youth, gave every prospect even close to the show a shot & added a bunch of talent to the system- good year. For this year, does any reasonable Cub fan want the Cubs in bidding wars with the Dodgers & Angels right now? If the Cubs lose 84 or 94 games this year, what's the difference?!? To varying degrees, the Cubs established 3 young core players in 2012, Rizzo, Shark & Castillo. If the Cubs can add 3 or more young core players to the team this year & add as much talent to the farm system as last year, that would be an excellent year. This would set the Cubs up to be playoff contenders in 2014 & they’d be setup for a long term run. Enjoy the process!

Then "FIP/XFIP" would be wrong; he's filthy. He has over 400 MLB innings pitched & less than 350 hits... Not by luck, it's by great pitching.

Is this for Hellickson, or for one of Hellickson's used jocks? If it's actually for Hellickson, think Garza trade, except the Rays would want more. Anyway, it's Shields who will be traded.

Rangers have a lot of good prospects in A-Ball... http://texas.rangers.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2012/#list=tex

Deal! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV8yuhQZXkE&feature=related

A shoty but sweat breakdown on Delgado: http://tsf.tbo.com/tbo/baseball/player.cgi?7208

Braves prospects... http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2012/#list=atl

So, do you think the constant process of improving has stopped?

Thanks!

Yeah, I just missed him... I only keep up with the Cubs prospects on a very part time basis. Tell me about him & what is your list?!?

No, nothing technical about it. Just part of of the process.

Wow, I was looking for the thread & thought it was gone. I couldn't believe it was on the 2nd page.... At this point & time, I think the strength of the organization is the youthful depth. So I think it's a real good topic. With all the young depth, I have a top 20 & a best of the rest... All the info I have is from posters here & from Skye on a Cubs group. I pretty much straight plagiarized most of it. The ranking is very subjective at this point... By the end of the season the top guys could be off the list & someone I didn't mention could be #1. Just the way it is with the lower levels in the middle of a season. ____________________________________________________________ 1. Javier Baez, SS/3B, 18( R): 2011 1st round pick, 9th overall. 2. Justin Bour, 1B, 23 (A+): He's having pretty much the definition of a breakout seaon... I hope he goes to Tennessee ASAP. 3. Austin Kirk, LHP, 20 (A-): The 6'1" lefty and 3rd round pick in '09, how hard does he throw. 4. Nick Struck, RHP, 21 (AA): Nick is 5'11" righty who is now doing quite well in Tennessee... Same question as Kirk- how hard does he throw?!? 5. Jae-Hoon Ha, OF, 20 (A+): RH CF, good average guy, nice developing power & improving walk rate 6. Dallas Beeler, RHP, 21 (AA): A 6'5 RHP... Selected in the 41st round because he missed most of Oral Roberts' 2010 season recovering from Tommy John surgery, may still gain a few mph on his fastball before it's all said and done, but he already has excellent control... Double promoted to Tennessee & still performing at a high level- excellent control 7. Micah Gibbs, C, 22 (A-): Gibbs, last year's 3rd round pick, was considered a strong hitter for average, with good to average power and solid but not spectacular defensive ability as a receive... Walking more than he K's 8. Kevin Rhoderick, RHP, 22 (AA): 6'1 190lbs. A 2010 9th round pick, AZPhil says he throws a mid-90s fastball with a killer slider when it was on. He's killin' it in AA- his WHIP is less than 1.0 & he strikes out more than 10 per 9IP- really like these numbers. 9. Ben Wells, RHP, 18( A-SS): Young draftee from 2010, thick guy at 6'2 220lbs, throws very hard- consistently hitting 95mph... Will start off at Boise. 10. Graham Hicks, LHP, 21(A-): Another young 6'5 RHP( like these guys), he's skinny at 170lbs, so he could develop some more mph on his FB... a 4th rounder from 08, came from Wash in the Gorzelanny trade. 11. Frank Batista, RHP, 22 (A+): 5'10 175lbs. He was working as a starter the previous two seasons but is now the closer for Daytona 12. Casey Harman, RHP, 22(A-): He's putting up sick numbers as a reliever in Peoria... Crazy sick. 13. Marcus Hatley, RHP, 23(A+): He's emerging as a power relief arm after missing most of 2009 & 2010 from TJS... 6'5 220lbs with good stuff. 14. Zach Rosscup, LHP, 23(A+): Came over in the Garza deal. Good numbers across the board at Daytona. He's the best pitcher on the roster. 15. Brett Wallach, RHP, 22 (A+): Another 3rd round( Dodgers, Lilly trade) pick and another 6'5" righty, Wallach started poorly, but has since settled in nicely throwing 3 good starts in a row. He missed a couple starts before his last start. 16. Matt Cerda, INF, 21(A+): Just turning 21, so still young for Daytona... Good average, excellent OBP... Seems like he's been around forever. 17. Jeffry Antigua, RHR, 21(A+): Just turning 21, he's caught fire after his promotion to Daytona. 18. Logan Watkins, 2B/SS, 21(A+): He's hit a wall at Daytona, but looks like he's figuring it out. 19. Willson Contreras, 3B/C, 19( A-SS) Big international signee of 2009... Spent two seasons in DSL, playing at Boise this year... Showed nice improvement form 09 to 2010. 20. Jeimer Candelario, 3B, 19 (DSL)- 500k bonus baby from 2010, switch hitter, good average & power, great walk rate so far. Other Notables: Robert Whitenack, RHP, 22 (IR) - The 6'5" righty was on track as the #1 breakout prospect for 2011 until the dreaded TJS- ratbastard! Robinson Lopez, RHP, 20: Good arm, having some control problems at Peoria... Young for low-A. Matt Loosen, RHP, 22: 23rd round pick from 2010... Hard throwing pitcher with decent perifials Evan Crawford, CF- Excellent batting average speed at Daytona 3B Dustin Geiger & Wes Darvin: Cubs brass mentioned them as breakout guys in the Spring. Bubi Siva OF- $1M bonus baby from Cuba. Gioskar Amays, SS: 2009 Dominican signee... Good athlete & BB IQ. Kim Jin-Yeon, RHP- $850K bonus baby from SK, pitches at 92mph, hits 94mph. Austin Reed, RHP- Sleeper from 2011 Alberto Cabrera, RHP: Good arm.

It's a process, not an event... What he's always had going for him is the age factor- always very young for his league, how he improves at every stop & just how good he's at making contact. What he needs to do is improve is OBP/walk rate & defense. He knows this & the Cubs know this- they're working on it. With his skill set & his constant track record of improving, I see no reason to seriously doubt he'll make these improvements.

Anything new on Cashner?!?

Good thread... Bour seems to be the breakout guy so far this year- really like how his numbers get BETTER after promotions... May be a bit premature, but I'd like to see him promoted to Tennessee ASAP...He's 23, so AA is age appropriate & it looks like he has A+ figured out. It would also be nice to see Vitters, Jackson & Bour on the same team. In March I remember some talk form the Cubs about a couple young 3B prospects. Does some one remember who the Cubs were talking about, & how are they doin'?

I’ve been told he responds to challenge very well. He has a lot of self confidence. Looking at the progressive promotion pattern for Vitters, the only real quick promotion was to AA this year. With his pattern of figuring out leagues, it’s a shame he went down early in the middle of his surge this year.

I like top end ceiling guys & Reed projects there. Very good reports on his stuff in rookie ball.

Errors for young SS & 3B are the norm, it’s about skill set. Lee is scouted with Dunston speed & arm strength with good hands--- this is like comparing a prospects power to Babe Ruth.

you're being pretty generous in saying that vitters made significant progress - yes he walked more than last year, but his walk rate still sucks. and his K's went from 65 in 120 games last year to 63 in 91 games this year (in other words, significantly worse). plus it's not like vitters only has one weakness - his power has come and gone and he didn't show much of it this year, and his defense is still bad. overall brett jackson is easily the better player right now because he really has one hole (strikeouts), vitters has a bunch. Geez, Vitters more than doubled his walk rate from the previous season, I don’t understand complaining about that?!? The minors is all about improving your game. Vitters has done this for 3 years now. Still waiting on Jackson to do something about those K’s. Vitters is still on track to play 3B on the major league level. His skill set is solid. Errors are always a concern, but you don’t want to be myopic about them for prospects 20 & under in the minors; especially for SS & 3B. On major league projection,. Jackson needs to confirm he’s a major league CF. He becomes a much different prospect as a corner outfielder. When judging prospects, age factor is an overwhelming consideration. When Jackson was as old as Vitters is now, Jackson was hitting .295 with a K rate close to 30% in low-A Peoria... advantage Vitters

The walks are still a concern. Well yeah, but you need to note the massive improvement… The kid has gone from a walk rate around of 6.4 in short season A in 2008 to around 3.8 in H-A/AA in 2010---Fantastic! This highlights the bugaboo with the 3 top prospects- Archer, Vitters & B. Jackson… All 3 have an issue with their game that must be improved for eventual success in the majors- Archer & his control, Vitters’ walk rate & B. Jackson’s K rate. Both Archer & Vitters made significant progress with their issues. B. Jackson has not; thus- 1. Archer 2. Vitters 4. B. Jackson